DoctorBill Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I had a foot operation last Thursday, so I have to set here on my dead arse for seven days and I am going Bonkers! Decided that I would ask about the 4x4 front hubs that came on my WD21 '95 NP that are the automatic jobbies. I am used to being able to turn the lever from FREE to LOCK, etc. Can someone give me a good explanation of what these "Automatic" Hubs are doing? Are they worth squat ? What engages them ? Are they like a socket wrench - lock in one direction and run free in the other - or is it centrifugal ? Can I take them off EASILY and replace them with MANUAL HUBS if I get a set from the wrecking yard? What should I expect to pay for two hubs from a wrecking yard - just so I don't get a con job on the price ? Any comments on which type is better ? and why ? I took my wife's Geo Tracker's Hubs apart and found them corroded all to Hell and got them loose and greased and cut out new gaskets and had them doing well - then she totaled the vehicle...now she drives a Suzuki Sport Sidekick who's Hubs probably need lubing. But...would lubing them cause her to total the Sidekick...? lol (maybe...) DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastpath Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 IMO the hubs are not bad for light to moderate offroading. They lock into place when you place your rig in 4WD and either go forward a few feet or spin the axle a couple of times. They unlock when you take your rig out of 4WD and reverse a few feet. They should make a loud clunk when they engage. Any manual hubs you get are going to be stronger than the autos, and the NISSAN ones are supposedly the strongest out there. The Nissan ones are not very common AFAIK, and new from a dealership cost a bundle. I have a pair of Nissan hubs that I got from MY1PATH on here and they have worked great for me. You can pick WARN hubs up for about $150 new, and Mile Marker hubs up for about $100. WARN is the better brand. They are cake to install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 IMO the hubs are not bad for light to moderate off roading. They lock into place when you place your rig in 4WD and either go forward a few feet or spin the axle a couple of times. What causes the 4x4 and the Hub to engage ? Any web link explaining the WD21's system for the 4x4 ? I am used to the Jeep Cherokee's Vacuum Line System. They unlock when you take your rig out of 4WD and reverse a few feet. They should make a loud clunk when they engage. Do the automatic hubs corrode and get stuck much ? Should they be opened up and disassembled, cleaned and greased ? I doubt mine ('95) were ever taken care of - how would I know ? Any manual hubs you get are going to be stronger than the autos, and the NISSAN ones are supposedly the strongest out there. The Nissan ones are not very common AFAIK, and new from a dealership cost a bundle. I have a pair of Nissan hubs that I got from MY1PATH on here and they have worked great for me. I think I will call some of our local WY's and see if I can get a pair of Nissan Manual Hubs. You can pick WARN hubs up for about $150 new, and Mile Marker hubs up for about $100. WARN is the better brand. They are cake to install. On my wife's Tracker, a couple of the bolts were rusted down, scared me that I'd break one off. I replaced the soft steel ones with Stainless Steel Allen Bolts. The Allen Wrench actually stripped out one OEM bolt ! Lot of SALT on the roads here in Eastern Washington - I worry about the Hubs being internally corroded and seized up. How would I know if the Automatic ones were working or corroded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastpath Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 the transfercase locks the vehicle into 4WD....when the axles are locked they lock the hubs i'm sure the hubs corrode, just like anything else in the world. and yes i think you can clean and regrease them. i dunno how often, and doubt you can tell if anyone has done this before. best way to see if they work is to go to a peice of scrubland and put your PF in 4wd, then drive forward a bit. if they clunk, they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Pathfinder auto hub test; in 2wd grab your front driveshaft and rotate it. It should stop in less than 6 full rotations. rotate it the opposite way it should free and then less than 6 rotations after that it should stop. If so it is working correctly. there is a floating plate on a spring inside the AUTO hub that glides past the engagement point which is a splined clip on the CV. when the wheel is beeing "rolled" in either direction the floating plate dips in and out of this point without turing the CV. when in put from the CV is applied in either direction the clip grabs this plate as it dips in and holds on to it as longas the wheel is being "driven" in the same direction as it was engaged. As soon and the CV is nolonger moving and the wheel is rolled in the opposiet direction the plate can dip back out of the clip and turn freely. I'm sure Beastpath can also attest that both the floating plate and the clip are very thin on the auto hubs and if you plan to install a Locker or LSD up font is is highly reccomended to get something stronger. VALUE of OEM locking hubs; $400 Dealer. I would pay up to $75 for them in a JY (found on nissan pickups not pathinders, double check the spline count too) They are strong enough to break a CV If you are that hardcore but IF you just want something relyable I'd say they are the best choice. I got my @ the JY for 25 bucks and I think the pair I snagged for beastpath were about 2x that so you can see that they are the most affordable option if you can find them used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) I have OEM auto hubs on mine. I have only ever had them apart once and there was very little corrosion or need to regrease them. The only reason I had them apart was because I busted a CV axel crawling out of a mudhole over a tree stump. I question the comments about them being weak. They were stronger than my CV on that trip. Edited July 7, 2009 by k9sar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I got the autos, and I wheel pretty dang hard.....I don't take it easy by ANY means.... I know I get power to my front wheels, (dunno after this last trip!) but I don't hear a clunk...maybe they are stuck locked, who knows! Unless i know for sure i break one, I won't be replacing them with manuals until I do, mostly cause I kinda don't want to have to jump out and lock em every time I gotta throw it in 4...but the warn manual locking hubs are kinda affordable, and probably what I would replace em with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred07 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 i've never had a problem but i don't go to crazy. but i have a question. how do you clean and lube them? i've kinda seen them taken off when i got my cvboots replaced just the other week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathy Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 plain and simple, nissan auto hubs suck. wait till you get stuck, try to backup.. but they don't lock because your not moving.. and then they make the dreaded.. clack clack clack clack.. 100 bucks, lifetime warranty manual replacements.... no more worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 you don't have to be moving to get them to engage. I wheel in 2wd most of the time and, if I get stuck, click into 4WD. Never had an issue with the hubs engaging once the axels start to get driven by the tranny. I HAVE been sitting in a mud hole watching some poor slob climb out of his truck to reach down into the muck and engage his manual hubs. To each his own, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I have never once heard my hubs clunk or fail to engage in reverse, and I've engaged the 4wd in mud and goosed it a few times. I'm still getting a set of Warn hubs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathy Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 i've seen these thing NOT engage may times, even on new frontiers. it happens when you try to go back and forth between forward and reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 tested mine today, they don't CLUNK, infact, when i engaged it I thought I just ran over a stick, its more of that kind of sound, like breaking a twig, both front and reverse mine did it immediately, not after a few revos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastpath Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 You KNOW when manual hubs are locked though, cos you have to get out and do it yourself. Peace of mind. As for getting out in the mud and locking them, why do that? Just lock them when you get on the trail before you get stuck in any mud, then you can just shift in and out of 4wd. Then unlock them after you are done. Doesn't take any more time than having to reverse until the auto hubs disengage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) Having heard many different opinions and consulting with a member of another forum who's opinion I value (he repairs Geo metros and has repaired several Pathfinders), I have decided to leave well enough alone and just accept my Automatic Hubs as they are. Apparently I do not need to worry about the Automatic Hubs being corroded inside as the automatics are sealed well (no lever to turn and leak) and usually do not get stuck from rust. Also, the previous owner was not an off-roader, so the Hubs were probably never tasked with goop, mud, water or what have you. So...thank you all for your comments. I appreciate your input. DoctorBill Edited July 8, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94pathfinder Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 my next set of hubs will be a set of either superwinch or warn locking hubs, im done with the autos, been through two sets in two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Althought I am supportive of the auto hubs, if/when mine finally fail, I will not replace them with auto hubs. My main point to all this discussion is that you need not worry about having auto hubs until they fail. Then replace them with a set or Warn or MM manuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I must say, when traveling @ 55mph (w/ the hubs already locked) that lever goes quite smoothyly from 2wd to 4wd(no grinding, no slowing down just pull on the fly) which is very re-assureing when your on the freway and you run across some snow Ice and you don't want the asshole who's following you too close to wind up in your tailgate (cause his brakes locked up)if you try to slow down. Just had to say the I really like how "shifting on the fly" really is on the fly (and very smooth) at ANY SPEED when my hubs are locked in. I just lock em during inclement weather and dirt roads or any other time I think I might need them before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 My manuals only let me down once, in a tight spot had to do a bunch of short (about 3') manuvers forward and reverse, basically left me in 2wd trying to negotiate a rock pile. Never broke one, but have heard of a lot of breakage with them. Manuals are just as prone to failure from my wheeling experiances. Especially WARNs, the hardware they use tends to be to hardened and snap easilly rather than give a little. For a while there was a lot of talk about where to get better bolts for replacements, but have't heard anything lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Apparently I do not need to worry about the Automatic Hubs being corroded inside asthe automatics are sealed well (no lever to turn and leak) and usually do not get stuck from rust. Also, the previous owner was not an off-roader, so the Hubs were probably never tasked with goop, mud, water or what have you. Just make sure you test them a bit for proper function... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Especially WARNs, the hardware they use tends to be to hardened and snap easilly rather than give a little. For a while there was a lot of talk about where to get better bolts for replacements, but have't heard anything lately. warn actually sells a spine ring thats desgned to break b4 anyghitng else does. Its cheap and can be installed/replaced in 5 min or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I say in this case use the old saying "if it aint' broke don't fix it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchdiggerjcf Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I say in this case use the old saying "if it aint' broke don't fix it" Is there a difference in fuel mileage between auto and manual hubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 There have been some claims but it is very slight. I'll be swapping soon myself and will report if I notice this or better freewheel... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colbywan Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I just swapped to a used set of warn hubs that I got from a member here yesterday. I'll let you guys know if there's any change in mileage... -Colby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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