Meth addiction - help me help friends

[mws]

I'll apologize right up front about the seriousness of this thread. Not the usual Off-Topic jocularity....

 

 

I see no way to talk about this stuff without ending up depressed and concerned. So if you aren't prepared, stop reading this thread now.

 

 

Many would say this forum is not the place to talk about this stuff. I disagree. I feel I have actually come to know many of you well enough to talk about serious stuff. I respect you and your experiences, and I want to hear from you.

 

 

Again, I need serious input and help here, so if you're not mature or caring enough to be respectful, leave now. Thank you.

 

Martin

[mws]

OK, thank you for staying.

 

Here is the situation: In the last month, two of my dearest friends have revealed that they have siblings that have reached crisis points with regards to meth addictions.

One, I'll call him Tom, is in jail. Late 30's, male, been a user for several years.

The other, I'll call her Lucy, is trying to quit. Early 40's, been a long term user - like 10 or 20 years. Currently in intense therapy.

 

My friends come to me for support and help. They know I am compassionate and care deeply, but I am also pretty, well, call it blunt. Hey, I'm an engineer and am not into games and deceipt. They come to me expecting that and are prepared for it. If they just need emotional salve and little white lies to feel better, they go to their other friends. I won't tell lies. I'll omit info or not share an opinion if I think it is more than they can process at the time, but I will never lie.

 

I have encountered meth use and actually dealt with employees with problems. But always in a supervisor or manager role. I support them, keep issues in confidence, beg them to get help, do all I can to help them, but ultimately have to assume the role of performance manager. And frankly, they all turned out to not be able to control the demon well enough to retain their jobs no matter how hard I tried. Either incarcerated, dead, or still living the "life". It hurts, but I have to continue on.

 

This is different. This has nothing to do with work. This has to do with trying to help friends save their family members. Literally, save them. Both have been suicidal already. It's bad.

 

Here's my problem: What I read is incredibly depressing. Stuff like this:

https://www.treatmentonline.com/blog/index.asp?blog_id=2293

 

Basically, research is indicating that meth use eventually (and it doesn't take long) results in serious and permanent brain alterations. And prognosis is not good. I spoke to a couple folks I know who are closer to the culture (DA, psychologist), and they say they have seen 0% recovery... and have lost hope. Basically, after a couple years, folks are pretty much lost.

 

I don't like that answer. If it is true, then I need to not give my friends false hope for recovery. Instead, I need to focus on supporting them and keeping them healthy and strong and not getting sucked into their siblings' he!!.

 

What are your experiences? Do you know someone who has recovered?

Edited October 10, 2008 by mws

[daftpup]

Jeez Martin. I have never had anyone close to me hooked on that stuff but understand the allure, buzz and subsequent addiction.

 

A close friend of mine teaches high school as well as having a counselling degree and has told me some ugly stories about meth users. He has had exposure to them through the student body and within the community.

 

He told me once what his strategy would be if one of his daughters or other loved ones of his became addicted. He has a little place out in the bush and that's where he said he'd take them. Once there, he would literally tie them up(safety measures used of course) and leave them tied up for as long as it took to break them. Constant vigilance, minor medical intervention, and emotional and physical support would be needed during this time. He figures it would take a couple weeks...likely the roughest 2 weeks of both your lives.

It may sound radical but when he was telling me about it...it made alot of sense.

[Precise1]

It's a harsh subject, so I'll respond as bluntly.

 

Daftpup, your buddy has no clue what he is talking about. Hopefully he will never be in that position so he won't have to see the failure of his treatment.

 

Martin, I'm sorry.

From what I have seen, your understanding of the prognosis (same as the article posted) is correct. I have known a few meth heads, some for years. I have never seen one stay away from it, much less 'turn things around'. There are shades of success; jail, drug treatment programs, counciling, support groups, helpful family, etc. Each and all had promoted a period of success and desire to be free of it but was not enough. If the person wasn't presented with an opportunity to imbibe, they inevitably persued it. 1 year of success would be destroyed by 1 week of tweaking, only to start the circle over.

 

That sounds really grim, so I can only hope that my observations are singular in their profound failure but I don't believe they are. The term "Meth brain" does exist for a reason and I believe it truely (perhaps irrevocably in the case of habitual users:addicts) changes their mentality. I was a bio major (a life time ago) and the clinical description of the bio-mechanics is very similar to the effects of cocaine, but much more intense. I believe it to be true.

 

In my opinion the best chance someone has to recover is to immediately divorce themselves of ALL previous friends/contacts(move?). Get into family, church (this from an agnostic/athiest), community service, school... Anything that will keep them busy, visable and away from opportunity. Hobbies, support, counseling, distraction and NO possibility to deal with other users is paramount. Even then, it will be rough.

 

I have a sister with similar problems, but I am not to investigate since I am, well, me. Real. I have done so regardless, but just enough to know that there is nothing I can do with enablers shielding her. The last conversation we had, I suspect I am too late...

 

B

[Simon]

While I don't have any experience with meth addicted friends/family, I do have some experience with addiction, namely alcohol. One thing I've realized is that no matter what, you can't make a person stop something they don't want to stop. They may say all the right things, and go through the hoops, but unless it's really in their heart, and mind, to stop, they won't.

 

Given the "meth brain" (as B put it) it may not be possible for these people to stop anymore, and similar to a situation with a terminally ill friend/family member, your job is to help support the survivors, and loved ones of the person lost. I know you've already said that, and I believe that's where your focus should remain.

[jitterymonkey]

It's a harsh subject, so I'll respond as bluntly.

 

Daftpup, your buddy has no clue what he is talking about. Hopefully he will never be in that position so he won't have to see the failure of his treatment.

 

Martin, I'm sorry.

 

In my opinion the best chance someone has to recover is to immediately divorce themselves of ALL previous friends/contacts(move?). Get into family, church (this from an agnostic/athiest), community service, school... Anything that will keep them busy, visable and away from opportunity. Hobbies, support, counseling, distraction and NO possibility to deal with other users is paramount. Even then, it will be rough.

 

I have a sister with similar problems, but I am not to investigate since I am, well, me. Real. I have done so regardless, but just enough to know that there is nothing I can do with enablers shielding her. The last conversation we had, I suspect I am too late...

 

B

 

Exactly, everything Precise1 just said.

 

I tried it a few times back in '88 or so when I was still using. Luckily I didn't like it that much.

Meth had just started to come around here & my <so called> friends loved it..... A lot cheaper than coke plus the high lasted a lot longer.

 

The addict must want to quit. The only thing your friends can do for their siblings is not enable them & maybe get some help themselves in AL ANON.

if they REALLY want to quit they'll distance themselves from anything & everyone that's remotely connected with using.

 

I personally know only one person who has successfully stayed off it for years. I'm sure there are a lot more.

While binging on the stuff, jesus came to him in a vision. He found God & has been clean for (I think) 5-6 years.

 

Some people can go "Cold Turkey" (me) & some people need help. AA,NA,God. Nothing wrong with that. Anythings better than destroying your life.

Prison IMHO is not a good place for addicts to stay clean.

 

JM

[zonianbrat]

There have been some good points made here. I know of two success stories. One being pure cold turkey success for 7 years now. He just got sick of the addiction. He tried to quit several times before with the support of groups, friends etc. The final time he quit he told me he was just sick of depending on something. The other success story was kinda force with prison. It just so happens to be a girl that I almost married too. This girl had alot going for her and we were good together. We partied hard and I'll admit I used to do about any drug except anything "shot up" or burned on foil or light bulbs. Well she experimented the Meth with a friend on a "girls night out" and she told me about it and I told her I did not approve even though I was still using alot of different drugs for entertainment purposes. Long story short she started using and hiding it from me until I found it in her jeans pocket. It started a huge fight that ultimately ended up with us breaking off our engagement, her embeseling (sp?) money from her mothers buisness to pay for more meth and then being arrested for the embeselment. She went to prison for like 2 1/2 years. I talked to her about it a long time ago when she got out and she said when we were together she hid it from me for almost a year. I could not believe it and felt quite nieve for not seeing the signs. Sorry to tell my own story but what I am getting at is I know of two success stories but I also know of like 10 unseccesful stories. The person has to want to quit and be willing to re-structure there life around that decision basically. I truly hope that your friends siblings are sucess stories.

[crazyhayseed]

You don't "try" to quit meth... "Do or do not", as the great Yoda says.

 

If someone tells you they're "trying" to quit, they're lying... and probably planning on pawning your stereo.

 

 

 

One of my best friends had a meth habit. We went from being able to finish each other sentences to total strangers.

I thought I could help him by getting him away from the crowd he was using with. He came to live with my wife and I in the middle of nowhere. However, he was still able to find trouble and almost got us evicted.

We just started talking again this week. Seems like he's decided to clean up.

 

Long story short, it's my experience that Meth is more a behavioral problem then a chemical addiction.

If you want trouble, you're going to find it. Dependence is a cop-out. Meth is just the cheapest fix.

I guarantee, if they could afford it, they'd be on something else.

[Slick]

A lot of good stuff said above.... (oh, and around here, cocaine is back in as it's now cheaper than meth)

 

I know of 1 person who was once very close to me, she used for years, we tried to get her to stop, but until that day came when she was so high she halucinated where the road was and crashed her beloved car into a tree (thinking it was road), she did not WANT to quit.

After the accident she stopped, on her own, cold turkey she stopped. for about 3 years.... then one day I found some in her purse while I was hunting for a pack of smokes (she told me they were in there)..... I confronted her about it, and that's where the lies began. "oh, it's a friends"... "oh i was just going to pass it on to someone"... blah blah..... yes, she had gone back to using.

in the end, it ruined her marriage to a VERY good friend of mine who is a hard working, no bullchit kinda guy....... he tried to get her to stop, but that's when the lies, deceipt, missing money, etc started. you can only do so much for a meth addict........ but ultimately, they have to do it for themselves.

meth is a life long addiction, some make it out alive, others just keep going until it kills them dead.

all you can do for your friend is be supportive and pray for the best.

 

they say the devil is on earth, i call it meth.

[GrimGreg]

If they have been using for that long of a time it has become part of them to use it. Not much hope for turning things around this late in the game. And trying to put them in a different place where they are away from their drug buddies might work for as much as a week, but everyone knows the type of people and types of places to go to get drugs, and those people and places are everywhere you can go.

[fondo]

Man... thats to bad sorry to hear. Meth is an overwhelming and very very powerful drug once you get hooked. I used meth for about 2 weeks in the fall of '04 and never want to do it again. I've heard that depending on how it is ingested will determine how easy or hard it is to quit. People who smoke it may have a higher chance of quiting as opposed to people who shoot it up.

Not sure if this has any validity to it but it did come from a guy who teaches a college level course about drugs and society. One of my good friends I had in high school got addicted to that s%*t and now I don't think he'll ever be able to quit (nor want to). I've tried to get him to stop but every attempt it seems I was unsuccessful at. What scares me is that his family won't come to terms about his addiction so they act as if everything is fine and won't confront him. Ultimately though (like everyone else has said) it is up to them if they want to quit.

[adamzan]

Like Simon, I don't have any experience with meth addicts, but I do with addicts of other types of drugs. I'm turning 19 next week, so I've only been out of high school for over a year. In my HS most people were clean, but some used pot, and most people drank. But now that I’ve been out for a little bit, some of my former friends that I used to hang out with a lot more, have become addicted to various drugs, heck, I don’t even know all of them.

 

My simple and probably not the best solution, was to just have nothing to do with them anymore, as I do not know what to do. I do feel really bad that so many people who could’ve done really well for themselves have chosen the path they did, but there is only so much you can do.

 

I hope you fare well with your support and help them.

[Kittamaru]

Martin, let me say one thing:

 

What I am about to say may clash greatly with various religious and scientific beliefs... but I know it's true from personal experience.

 

You can, and will, recover from just about anything you wish to. If you have an honest desire to overcome something, be it an addiction, a disease, or even an illness, you can do it. It's not just willpower, it's trusting your body. Trust that you are strong.

 

Look to ancient paganism - modern religion works for some, but for many I know it isn't enough to sit there and pray... you have to physically do something. Paganism and Christianity are pretty much the same thing with different names. Christianity pulls most of it's holidays and other "religious experiences" from paganism, but alters it to be one god and angels instead of a higher deity and minor deities.

 

case in point - I was addicted (so to speak) to my ADHD medication. I, literally, could not function without it because I had become so dependent on it controlling my unstable emotional and mental state. Without it I was highly aggressive, depressed, and otherwise miserable. I was ready to fight over the smallest things and my grades and performance in school showed it. It wasn't that I was dosing up for fun... I needed it to stay in control.

 

I came to the determination that I couldn't live like that... between how much those damn pills cost and the negative effects they had on me, I couldn't live like that. So one day I made a concentrated effort to go without them. It sucked. I had to keep stepping back to re-evaluate myself, and I nearly lashed out at people multiple times. And it didn't get better anytime soon - even now (almost 3 years later) I'm finding it difficult at times to keep my volatile emotions in check - but I can.

 

Now, Crystal Meth is another, more powerful addiction by far... but the same principal applies. You have to KNOW it's a problem and you have to fight it. Nobody can do it for you.

 

Yes, it will hurt.

Yes, it will suck.

And you will want it back to make the pain stop.

 

the thing to keep in mind (and remind your friends of this) is that they will feel just as good, if not better, without it the day they see what they can make of their lives. Do they want to have children? Do they hope to raise a family? Help them find something powerful to latch onto - for me it was the thought of becoming a provider... of becoming a father... of being something I had never had for my kids. It has to be strong... potent enough that you would give anything for it... because that's what you are doing.

 

The physical effects are true... but a little brain damage isn't enough to stop the bodies amazing regenerative powers. It'll take time, but the brain can, and will re-wire itself. Other sections of the brain will compensate, you just have to use them. It sounds strange and stupid and conceited and I know I'm not coming off as caring... but I've seen it first hand. You can overcome this... but not for anyone else, not for any other reason, than because you WANT to.

 

Help them want to. That's the most important thing you can do.

[vengeful]

Wow. Rough topic. (Un)Fortunately I don't have any first-hand experience with this issue, so I don't really have any insight to offer outside of what's already been said. I do agree with Kitt, though, on the fact that in order to effect any real change in your life, whether it be changing career direction, losing weight or overcoming a serious addiction, you must absolutely, completely, in your head and heart, WANT and NEED to make the change.

 

I, however, am very sorry to hear about everyone's ongoing issues.

[Precise1]

changing career direction, losing weight or overcoming a serious addiction,

Those are worlds apart V...

 

B

[daftpup]

No disrespect intended, but I think some of you are missing it here. It's all fine and well to say the addict must want to quit and make the decision but we're not talking about Marlboroughs here. Martin's friends' siblings are clearly way too far gone and couldn't make a rational decision if they wanted to. Meth is making all their decisions for them. We know it alters brain chemistry, sometimes to the point of no return, but I feel that this damage can vary + or - with the individual.

 

Like Slick says, this drug is the devil and you need an "exorcist" type therapy to beat it. The radical treatment my buddy proposed would of course be a last ditch effort to save a soul. From what I've seen, other more conventional treatments have largely failed.

[StatutoryApe]

i'll try to keep this as blunt, or concise, as i prefer to call it in this case, as i can since there's already a lot of good opinions here so far.

 

i'll go ahead and agree with most everything that everyone has said except for Daftpup friend's hog-tie idea and Crazyhayseed's comment on dependency, only because i'm not 100% sure i agree with those comments. i won't really waste time echoing what everyone else has said, because the good points have already been repeated.

 

meth and alcohol are the hardest drugs to quit using because a person becomes more chemically dependent on those drugs than any other kind of drug. it's not just the addiction (addiction is your mind obsessing about something--in this case, a drug) but the dependency (dependency means that your body is physiologically DEPENDENT on a certain chemical or drug. meaning that you won't function well or at all without it and you will display physical symptoms of withdrawl) that makes meth such a bad drug. that being said, the best way to stop one's dependence on the drug is to go to rehab. it's one of those drugs that really has to be cleansed from your body. i'm sure that the folks at rehab know what's best, or at least know better than anyone in a support group. not that a support group wouldn't help.

 

my friend's success story:

this girl i went to school with had a problem with drugs and alcohol (at least that's what i'm assuming because she told me she hit "rock bottom") she wasn't particularly the best kid around school. she didn't go to the same high school as i. she went to a school called Independence. for the sake of simplicity, i'll describe it as "the high school from screw-ups." (remember, concise-- not blunt) so, assuming that she was really deep into drugs and/or alcohol (or any problem for that matter), she managed to pull herself out. how? she told me that after hitting rock bottom, she saw Jesus who "lifted her up" she joined her local church where her life is now turned around and is now a devout Christian. she's clean and living a good life. she just got married, too. so i guess that religion is a good "cure."

 

whichever way you go, i wish you and your friends' siblings good luck. keep us updated.

Edited October 13, 2008 by StatutoryApe

[Kittamaru]

daftpup, it's a chemical and physical addiction - you have to face it on both physical and emotional fronts. Physical involves something to take it's place, be it an activity or, if needed, a decon system. Emotional is much harder... once you come down off of it, you will see and feel what you've done to yourself and those around you and every fiber of your being will tell you to run from it. That's where you really need the support of friends and family (and religion if you are so inclined).

[mws]

Thank you, thank you all.

 

Some of you shared some deep personal stuff - I appreciate that. And some ring so, so true for these situations. I know what my role needs to be in this. I don't like it, but I know what I need to do.

 

 

Thank you again.

Martin

[vengeful]

Yeah, be there for your friends in their time of need. And, as always, we're here for you, too!

[nige]

constant interaction with clean friends is key. Removing the addict from the environment in which the consume whatever drug makes it a lot easier to kick it. It works for cigs, booze, cocaine, chemicals like meth and acid etc. This instance is a little tougher since they both live together, but it's working for a couple of my old friends get off of their coke habit. I stopped talking to them when they got into that stuff and now that they have quit, i am hanging out with them again.