Fukinitupagain Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) In order for these companies to make things locally, the bigwigs would have to take a cut in their profits, and they'd have to pay their workers far more than they pay foreign workers. This would bring salaries much closer to being in line, and would create a much larger "middle class". This would also be a sign of the ""communism" that has been mentioned in reference to Obama and his idea of spreading the money around. -They would have to take a paycut & I'm sure they wouldn't out of the goodness of their hearts, but if this country & this goverment would treat their products like the imoprst that they are, and yes even though the home office is here in the US it still says "Made In China" on it, then they would have a choice: do they continue to make it overseas & just pay the taxes, in turn earning money for the country & not off of the sweat of the US citizen's backs, or should they bring their company back here, providing jobs & economic growth for the country & at the same time ensuring quality control on the products. -A larger middle class does not mean Communism it means more people working instead of sitting around waiting for handouts. Communism, is when you put in however much work you feel & take what you "need." In a larger middle/working class the harder you work, the more you get, & the less you work the less you get. Simple as that. Communism is not recieving the pay that you have earned but rather you get what you "need", which sounds great on paper but when you put it into action with real people it is a collosal failure. -And no Obama is not Communist as far as goverment goes, he is a Socialist; he believes that the goverment shouuld own everything & tell all of us what to do, when to do it & where to do it. Really the only major difference between Socialism & Communism is that Communism is a totalarian or dictatorship & Obama believes in a a group of people as a goverment, not a single person. In all reality Most Democrap politicians are Socialists & Republican't politicians are Fascists, meaning they believe that private citizens or groups companies should own the companies, but the goverment should be able to tell them what to do with their companies. Edited November 6, 2008 by Fukinitupagain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 -A larger middle class does not mean Communism it means more people working instead of sitting around waiting for handouts. Communism, is when you put in however much work you feel & take what you "need." In a larger middle/working class the harder you work, the more you get, & the less you work the less you get. Simple as that. Communism is not recieving the pay that you have earned but rather you get what you "need", which sounds great on paper but when you put it into action with real people it is a collosal failure. That's actually not what I was referring to. My wording was poor. I meant that salaries being in line would mean Communism. You're right, I did mean socialism anyways...but I think you get what I meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Yeah, I said we were a country that "could" be self sufficient, didn't say it would be easy to do so, but we could cut all imports and exports and survive. Not many countries could do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonianbrat Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I wonder what size/cost of a facility would be needed and what would be the throughput or raw materials. With transa nd dsiposal costs of the residual solid matter, would that be too costly? dunno. Lots of factors to look at but I know there be lots and lots of oil out there that isn't in nice little easy-to-pump liquid pockets. These "facilites" you speak of are needed in New York and the surrounding area due to the BLM in that area not letting them dispose of it like we do out here in the rest of the country. If you can find a picture of a rig then you would see that we do not need to transfer the raw material that we drill. We dig a pit and as we drill the drilling fluid brings the "cuttings" or rocks to the surface where they are run over a shaker to seperate the cuttings from the drilling fluid which is then re-circulated. The cuttings then run down a slide and into a pit which is lined so that it does not contaminate the ground water underneath. So we do not transfer out the raw material anywhere. As far as the oil being easy to drill, your right it is getting tougher. Alot of oil in the main fields in Alaska are too thick too pump conventionally so they are actually heating the ground to "soften it up". If you want an interesting fact check out how much energy it takes to heat the ground out there every day. I'll give you a hint: it is enough to heat a small city. Believe me as crucial as oil is and how much money is already spent on it they could spend many more millions. Yet one producing well would recover these costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 There are a bunch of capped wells here in Ohio, I'm sure other places as well, because the oil here is high in sulfur content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 These "facilites" you speak of are needed in New York and the surrounding area due to the BLM in that area not letting them dispose of it like we do out here in the rest of the country. If you can find a picture of a rig then you would see that we do not need to transfer the raw material that we drill. We dig a pit and as we drill the drilling fluid brings the "cuttings" or rocks to the surface where they are run over a shaker to seperate the cuttings from the drilling fluid which is then re-circulated. The cuttings then run down a slide and into a pit which is lined so that it does not contaminate the ground water underneath. So we do not transfer out the raw material anywhere. As far as the oil being easy to drill, your right it is getting tougher. Alot of oil in the main fields in Alaska are too thick too pump conventionally so they are actually heating the ground to "soften it up". If you want an interesting fact check out how much energy it takes to heat the ground out there every day. I'll give you a hint: it is enough to heat a small city. Believe me as crucial as oil is and how much money is already spent on it they could spend many more millions. Yet one producing well would recover these costs. I certainly trust your information since you are in the field. I would love to see the US take advantage of alternate fuels (not just ethanol) or alternate ways to get petrolium products. I'm surprised there aren't more methane based systems given that we have so much garbage piled all over the place. Hmm.. perhaps a big cleanup effort is needed and we can push all the crap to the north where it belongs. Nobody's really using that 'canadia' area for anything useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I certainly trust your information since you are in the field. I would love to see the US take advantage of alternate fuels (not just ethanol) or alternate ways to get petrolium products. I'm surprised there aren't more methane based systems given that we have so much garbage piled all over the place. Hmm.. perhaps a big cleanup effort is needed and we can push all the crap to the north where it belongs. Nobody's really using that 'canadia' area for anything useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hmm.. perhaps a big cleanup effort is needed and we can push all the crap to the north where it belongs. Nobody's really using that 'canadia' area for anything useful They could use it to backfill all the diamond and oil sand mines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonianbrat Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I certainly trust your information since you are in the field. I would love to see the US take advantage of alternate fuels (not just ethanol) or alternate ways to get petrolium products. I'm surprised there aren't more methane based systems given that we have so much garbage piled all over the place. Hmm.. perhaps a big cleanup effort is needed and we can push all the crap to the north where it belongs. Nobody's really using that 'canadia' area for anything useful I agree with you 110% on the methane and alternative fuels. I think there is a ton of potential with Methane, especially Methane Hydrite which is under the oceans mostly. Problem is finding a safe way to extract it. Or we can always just stick a pipe up a cows ass!! Wasnt it Grim that was telling us about how much methane the cows are producing themselves? I believe it. Farking Cows!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Don't know if it was me, but it can be done and a single cow can keep a bunsen burner going pretty well. I bet about 20 could keep a whole house heated for a winter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) As a Canuck I resent those remarks... :tonguefinger: I agree with you completely that more should be done to take advantage of methane gases being released by landfills and dumps. Apparently, methane gas comes from renewable, natural sources too, which means it would be environmentally friendly much more than fossil fuels. Sadly, human civilization has come to rely on fossil fuel so getting away from it is going to take tiny steps... Anyhoo, good for Obama winning the election. Guess time will tell how his being president will change politics in the US and abroad. Our douche-nozzle prime minister is already sucking up to Obama despite being quite clear a Democrat in the White House won't benefit Canada... I guess that's what happens when Stephen Harper's used to takin' Bush in the bum. I won't get into my whole take on Canadian politics; it's such joke. In all honesty, politics the world over is just a gong show. Edited November 7, 2008 by tekazgtr1984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 In all honesty, politics the world over is just a gong show. yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 In all honesty, politics the world over is just a gong show. The most inteligent thing said in this thread yet... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 The most inteligent thing said in this thread yet... B Thanks Precise! Guaranteed someone out there would take offense to my remark, but meh... Truth be told! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 well.. after Obie completes the mexico fence, perhaps he'll put one up north to keep you canuck hooligans out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hell, I'd rather he just fences in the entire mid west/fly over portion of the country and let it fail on it's own... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hell, I'd rather he just fences in the entire mid west/fly over portion of the country and let it fail on it's own... B Would you fall in the ocean allready? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 well.. after Obie completes the mexico fence, perhaps he'll put one up north to keep you canuck hooligans out of here. Oh, you cold as ice K9! But who says we wanna go? And you're damn right we're hooligans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzy Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 well.. after Obie completes the mexico fence, perhaps he'll put one up north to keep you canuck hooligans out of here. *sets it up, shoots, SCORES!!!* (puck to K9's head) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legalalien Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I've been tring to put into words all the feelings this thread has stired in me but I can't type and my lunch hour is coming to a end I think it is great that a bunch of people can talk about such volatile subjecs and not loose the cool. I believe that if our nation is gonna change for the beter we need to be able to talk about this things without ending up on a fight. I personaly think This mess wer'e in is all about the money; those that have allot of it whating more, and not caring who they F__k over to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I personaly think This mess wer'e in is all about the money; those that have allot of it whating more, and not caring who they F__k over to get it. Problem is that those without think they deserve a cut for doing NOTHING. I would much rather some greedy SOB has a bunch of money from doing something like running a buisness than some guy getting public assistance for doing nothing other than slappin his bitches. I am completely and totally against any governmental social programs, especially finanncial ones, and I don't think that there should be a "tax curve", it ought to be a flat rate, less BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legalalien Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Problem is that those without think they deserve a cut for doing NOTHING. I would much rather some greedy SOB has a bunch of money from doing something like running a buisness than some guy getting public assistance for doing nothing other than slappin his bitches. I am completely and totally against any governmental social programs, especially finanncial ones, and I don't think that there should be a "tax curve", it ought to be a flat rate, less BS. I had to think about this for a second, and I agree, but I think it would be easier for thoes of us in the middle if the rich SOB got out of the way after making less say 5 mil and let the rest of us have a chance at making our 5 mil. I don't think that anybody should get something for nothing but when most of the wealth is inside a few peoples pockets there is less for you and me not to mention to pay the salaries of those police officers that arest that guy for slapping his biches. last but not least, I agree that the the tax rate should be flat, that way the more you make the more you have to pay.(Wait a minute..... doesnt that sounds similar to Obama's tax proposal? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I agree that the the tax rate should be flat, that way the more you make the more you have to pay.(Wait a minute..... doesnt that sounds similar to Obama's tax proposal? :-) Nope, his plan is to take the curve and ramp it up even more, basically punishing prosperity. And if you don't like the greedy buisness owners stop buying their crap and feeding the monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerranoNZ Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 *sets it up, shoots, SCORES!!!* (puck to K9's head) @ Pezzy scoring Did someone post this here yet? *Looks at Ryan* http://www.illwillpress.com/shifty22.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fondo Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Guess what's in the works today that you won't see for another 20 years. Is it technology that will be used in whatever war is started in 20 years by President Jeb Bush. Oh please say yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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