88pathoffroad Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 (edited) http://www.danielste...ays/relays.html Power for the headlights is controlled by a switch on the dash. This is *not* a great place to tap into the system, for two reasons: The headlamp switch uses tiny, high-resistance contacts to complete circuits, and the wire lengths required to run from the battery to the dashboard and all the way out to the headlamps creates excessive resistive voltage drop, especially with the thin wires used in most factory installations. In many cases, the thin factory wires are inadequate even for the stock headlamp equipment. Headlamp bulb light output is severely compromised with decreased voltage. The drop in light output is not linear, it is exponential with the power 3.4. For example, let's consider a 9006 low beam bulb rated 1000 lumens at 12.8 Volts and plug in different voltages: 10.5V : 510 lumens 11.0V : 597 lumens 11.5V : 695 lumens 12.0V : 803 lumens 12.5V : 923 lumens 12.8V : 1000 lumens ←Rated output voltage 13.0V : 1054 lumens 13.5V : 1198 lumens 14.0V : 1356 lumens ←Rated life voltage 14.5V : 1528 lumens The Europeans take a slightly more realistic with their voltage ratings; they consider output at 13.2v to be "100%". The loss curve is the same, though. When operating voltage drops to 95 percent (12.54v), headlamp bulbs produce only 83 percent of their rated light output. When voltage drops to 90 percent (11.88v), bulb output is only 67 percent of what it should be. And when voltage drops to 85 percent (11.22v), bulb output is a paltry 53 percent of normal! It is much more common than you might think for factory headlamp wiring/switch setups to produce this kind of voltage drop, especially once they're no longer brand new and the connections have accumulated some corrosion and dirt. From the headlamp on-off switch, a single wire runs to the beam selector (high/low) switch. Two wires run from the dimmer to the front of the car: one for high beams, one for low. Here's what we have to start with: Those are long lengths of thin wire between the battery and the headlamps! Typically we find 16 gauge wire (1.5 mm2) at best, more commonly 18 gauge (1.0 mm2) and in some cases even 20 gauge (0.5 mm2). Most such circuits produce unacceptable voltage drop. For more, visit this page... http://www.danielste...ays/relays.html Edited October 26, 2009 by RedPath88 Fixed External Link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Good info 88, thanks ! I be happy with a straight frame first, so it may be a while before I futz with the headlights... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revgolem Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Wow. Explains a lot. I guess I never really looked into it and just assumed that relays WERE being used. I mean... why not? Would also explain why there was enough voltage to melt my healight/turn combo switch and connector all to hell and back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pickles Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 88, did you and/or has anybody else relay'd their headlights? I was just in there this afternoon wiring and installing a relay for the PIAA's on the roof, adn was thinking it would be nice to do everything right and strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 I have an entire wiring harness built and ready to go in my garage for the headlights. I bought new 9004 wiring plugs at Wal-Mart($3.99 each), pulled the connector apart, pulled the pin connectors apart and then soldered 10-gauge wires to the pin connectors so the headlights will have lots and lots of juice. I'll post pics after I get it done, I just need one more relay. I've seen a write-up with pics from some other dude who did his, and the before-and-after pics were really remarkably different. You get a much brighter light with the relays and larger wiring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 and yet again...88 gets me thinking..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 (edited) do you know where the headlights are grounded to? In most cases I bet cleaning those contact points may help with light output. I have my back-up light wired to a relay with a switch on the console. The light is grounded to the tire carrier. I noticed it was dim when I first installed it, then I scraped the paint off the mounting point and it was a much whiter, brighter light afterwards. Someone once told me a thin layer of white lith. grease cuts down on corrosion and still conducts current relatively well, but i've never seen and scientific backup of the claim... Edited June 17, 2005 by skrillaguerilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 The last time 88 posted this I hussled out and did this exact thing to my fogs, the difference was well worth the effort!! My factory fogs with Sylvania silver stars are just awesome. Mind you I have 35% tint down the entire front window and i still consider them quite bright!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Dank Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Is this kinda in essence like these? Wiring Harness on Ebay I used to run higher wattage Nokya bulbs which looked really nice but i ended up frying my sockets on 3 difference occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pickles Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Is this kinda in essence like these? Wiring Harness on Ebay I used to run higher wattage Nokya bulbs which looked really nice but i ended up frying my sockets on 3 difference occasions. I bet you could do it cheaper on your own. I too melted both headlight plugs, and bought some heavy duty ones for like $3.99 each. Add some wire and brain power, and you're good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Well, only if you LIKE doing it yourself. That kit actually has all the stuff you need with none of the mess and guesswork. It's about the right price, all things considered. I just added up all the stuff you'd have to buy to do it yourself and it's about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Dank Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I thought the price was ok too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reido Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I just got a chance to try this out tonight. I have the low beams wired up but not soldered and nothing is really ziptied/taped into place but the light output is amazingly better. My low beams are more powerful than my highbeams were previously. I can't wait to see how well the high beams will work. Not too difficult to do either, so I *highly* recommend this as a project to get to before the dark and rainy season comes. I was thinking with this system I could wire up a switch pretty easily that would allow my high and low beams to be on at the same time for maximum output should I need it. Will this be too rough on the bulb since it houses both filaments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statikuz Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 alrighty, so let me get this straight... the old power wires are run directly from the switch to the headlights. with the upgrade, you're simply placing relays close to the headlights, running the wires from the switch to the relays instead of the lights, and connecting the relay to the lights / power / ground with some gnarlier wire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 alrighty, so let me get this straight... the old power wires are run directly from the switch to the headlights. with the upgrade, you're simply placing relays close to the headlights, running the wires from the switch to the relays instead of the lights, and connecting the relay to the lights / power / ground with some gnarlier wire? that's how i see it. the nice thing is that all the work is up front under the hood not the dash.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statikuz Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) okay, sounds good... are relays relays? the article goes on and on about how you need quality relays and the kits he sells include "Hella heavy duty relays"... do you need a kit or are you just as far ahead buying two relays and a wad of wire? the required components are: (?) good relay (x2) 12ga wire (like a few feet?) replacement 9004 sockets (necessary?) the ebay wiring harness just says "Features heat resistance head light connector terminal plugs, dual heavy duty relays" the kit that daniel stern guy sells: "Kits include all Hella-made extreme-duty parts to accept your own 10-12ga wire: 40A relays with dual output terminals, relay brackets/terminal blocks, terminals, extra-tough fused fuseholders and extra-tough headlamp sockets."... and his kit is $55. summit racing also sells a kit ( SUM-890030 ): Edited August 9, 2005 by statikuz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 okay, sounds good... are relays relays? the article goes on and on about how you need quality relays and the kits he sells include "Hella heavy duty relays"... do you need a kit or are you just as far ahead buying two relays and a wad of wire? the required components are: (?) good relay (x2) 12ga wire (like a few feet?) replacement 9004 sockets (necessary?) the ebay wiring harness just says "Features heat resistance head light connector terminal plugs, dual heavy duty relays" the kit that daniel stern guy sells: "Kits include all Hella-made extreme-duty parts to accept your own 10-12ga wire: 40A relays with dual output terminals, relay brackets/terminal blocks, terminals, extra-tough fused fuseholders and extra-tough headlamp sockets."... and his kit is $55. summit racing also sells a kit ( SUM-890030 ): More like 10+ feet of wire in three different colors, unless you want your headlight wiring to be all one color. I wouldn't think a heavy-duty relay would be necessary, stock low beams are 45W and the stock high beams are 65W. That's a LOT less than 40 amps. Regular 30 amp relays should work fine. If you run higher-wattage bulbs than stock then replacing the sockets is a must, otherwise the plastic will melt. The problem is the stock small-gauge wire, it heats up under a high load and causes the socket to deform or melt. You can either remove the wiring from the sockets and replace the stock 18 gauge wire with 12 gauge, or find new sockets altogether. I found replacement sockets at Wal-Mart for $2.99 each, took them apart, removed the 16 gauge wires and soldered 12 gauge wire into the pins, then reassembled 'em. I still have to install the wiring...and I can't wait to see the difference on my 55W low/100W high diamond white headlights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I was thinking with this system I could wire up a switch pretty easily that would allow my high and low beams to be on at the same time for maximum output should I need it. Will this be too rough on the bulb since it houses both filaments? i like that idea.. just wonder if there would be any adverse effects too.. i do that manually sometimes if i am in bfe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statikuz Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 (edited) i'm diggin that daniel stern site... he tells you all about how PIAA bulbs are overpriced (whoops), how Sylvania Silverstars aren't the REAL Silverstar, how fog lights DON'T "penetrate" the fog at all, how "xtreme" and "ultra" and "super" white bulbs are all generally crap... seems to know what he's talking about. in related news, i toddled down to summit and snagged that wiring kit... a steal of a deal for all the stuff it includes, although the sockets that it comes with are TOTAL crap. i plugged in a bulb just to test it out, and forgot to put on that snap ring thing that holds the bulb in the reflector. well i needed to get the bulb back out of the socket to reassemble the whole thing... and i couldn't get it back out. so i took some vise grips to the socket and it just disintegrated into plastic dust. time to go find some new sockets. maybe my walmart will have some too edit: the crappy ones that came with the kit looked an AWFUL lot like these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=7992308560 Edited August 10, 2005 by statikuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Luker Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I upgraded my wiring a while back using relays as described. I have a relay for hi and a relay for low beams. The difference in lighting output is noticable for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statikuz Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) i emailed that lighting guy to see which headlight bulbs he recommended as the best, letting him know that i have a pathfinder with 9004 bulbs... Trying to make the 9004s work worth a toss is futile. Much better results will be had by picking up the grille and headlamp bucket assemblies from a Nissan "Hardbody" pickup truck -- looks like this: http://www.autospecialist.com/images/autoP...lsize/20474.jpg Toss the sealed beams in the trash and come see me for a set of *good* headlamps. You can pick up the grille and other parts you need via www.car-part.com , searchable used auto parts nationwide. Search 1993 Nissan Truck, Grille, select whether you want black or chrome, and go from there. The "new" parts listed are aftermarket. doesn't seem to me a very easily implemented solution unless you're REALLY worried about the performance of your headlights. i guess he would rather see everyone on the road with some euro-spec super headlights =D Edited August 12, 2005 by statikuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 I was thinking with this system I could wire up a switch pretty easily that would allow my high and low beams to be on at the same time for maximum output should I need it. Will this be too rough on the bulb since it houses both filaments? i like that idea.. just wonder if there would be any adverse effects too.. i do that manually sometimes if i am in bfe.. I wouldn't unless you want to run 110W x 2 through the headlight switch by itself. I can imagine a fried switch at the very least would be the end result... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pathfindero Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 so im a little lost with this whole thing... you need to put relays in after the battery connection to the headlights? you need to replace all the wiring for the lights? it'll melt everything if you put Xenon headlights on? how hard is it to do if youve got to tear into your wiring harnesses? -that doesnt sound fun at all help me out here, cuz im as confused as a baby in a topless bar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie4x4 Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 (edited) I do many thousands of km at night on Australian country roads. In my search for better lighting: First I fitted higher wattage (130H/90L) bulbs that burnt the earth wire. Next I made up a full Hella wiring harness with relays for H and L and fitted 100W xenon-halogen globes. These were very bright but gradually burnt the reflector chrome just above the bulb. When one blew on High beam the glass actually popped and smoked the reflector. Finally I have fitted a full HID Xenon H4 35w high and low beam light kit and wow it is bright. I also have a set of Lightforce spotties with Xenon globes and they are fantastic for spotting roos in the distance with the spot beam and on the side of the road with a wide angle cover on one light. My advise would be to fit a wiring harness with relays and earth wires all the way back to the battery. Only fit good quality higher wattage globes, cheap ones can damage reflectors. If you need extra light for long country trips and have $$ go the HID bi Xenon H4 kit. Geordie Edited June 30, 2006 by geordie4x4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 so im a little lost with this whole thing... you need to put relays in after the battery connection to the headlights? you need to replace all the wiring for the lights? it'll melt everything if you put Xenon headlights on? how hard is it to do if youve got to tear into your wiring harnesses? -that doesnt sound fun at all help me out here, cuz im as confused as a baby in a topless bar Go back to the top and click the link I provided.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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