Alkorahil Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I thought craftsman tools were still mare in the USA. I guess I was wrong and learned something new today: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/popular-wrench-fights-chinese-rival-004542621.html Made In USA = 20% higher cost than Made In China Made In China = 2x the cost when you have to buy it AGAIN, after it breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Well, the ones that I buy are (sockets, wrenches, pliers, etc). While Sears is no angel and a large corporation besides (read:don't automatically trust them), I can't say that I automatically revile them in this case. I have worked on many things that are patented (none in my name) so I have an idea of how it works. This type of thing is so specific, a wrench of similar operating principle yet modified action (mechanics) could be considered sufficiently different and not at all patent infringement. It's not quite the old 'change one part' adage, more like 'change several'. I'd have to see them first hand, but the look different in design to me. I'd be interested to see which clamped better, was sturdier, more rigid, better grips, had the best range of travel, etc. I'd hope the 'Made in USA' unit fit all these categories, but not all US suppliers are excellent or have perfect quality. Then there are other realities. Were there issues with quality, supply or price? Did sales drop? Did prices go up? Was Sears approached by an overseas manufacturer to sell a similar product that has a patent of it's own? There is too much that isn't being said to know what the whole story is. I'm not trying to defend patent infringement, overseas manufacturing or corporate manipulation and greed. I'm a career machinist (obviously works in US manufacturing), buy "Made in USA" when ever sensible and available and won't even shop at Walmart because of policies (I'll go down the street and pay more at another store). Unfortunately the description "Dan Brown, an industrial designer in Chicago" does not imply business acumen nor does his picture. It does look kind of cool though. Has anyone handled or used one? Any good or just oddity gimmick tool? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I've had one of those for a few years that is some generic name on it (found it in a junk car to boot). I've actually probably got someone who paid top dollar name bran prices money out of it hand Over fist as just a f-off and junkyard tool and it was actually the perfect tool for pulling the rusted-rounded off heads of the bolts on the 4runners bumper I just HAD to do in the driveway at home instead of where I have ALL the RIGHT tools (come to think of it I think it may have green on the handle) That picture is a bit creepy looking to me honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Yeah, he does look a little off. Too bad his idea got outsourced though. I always wonder about durability with the size-adjusting wrench stuff. It wouldn't be much good for bolts that're really on there. Also, there's a lot of material around the opening, so it wouldn't be able to lock onto half the bolts on a Pathfinder (stuff in the way). For some applications it would beat trying to find the right box wrench, but it wouldn't replace them. But for oddly sized/rusty/garfed bolts like Nunya's Yota, it might be the perfect thing. Maybe the idea could be refined a little to make the head smaller. (Craftsman seems to have gone the opposite way with their knockoff.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 One thing, semi-related, that I have noticed with Sears/Craftsman is that some of the tools that were made with the Craftsman name before are not now. I'm not sure if it was a shift away from certain tool production, or them not wanting to honor their lifetime replacement on those tools any longer. Either way it is kind of BS. because now if you have the Craftsman labeled tool, you can get it replaced, but you get the non-Craftsman tool as a replacement which has no warranty when it breaks. I will say their NEXTEC line of cordless tools are good. I bought a set last year and am very happy with it. I am pretty certain they are produced by Milwaukee tools, as the batteries and tools are nearly identical (only difference I found was the prong arrangement on the battery terminals). The NEXTEC stuff is also much cheaper than the Milwaukee versions. I plan to expand my toolbox of them this year, I have the drill and impact driver so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo94 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 That picture is a bit creepy looking to me honestly It's like he's staring straight into your soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92Path_68CJ Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Some Craftsman stuff is US made, some not. Their sockets, open end wrenches, and other similar "old school" tools, are still US made. I have a Craftsman socket set that is completely open, no deep sockets. Made in China. Its decent, that's it. I still reach for my 60s-70s sockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreus009 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I'm needing to replace some ratchets...i checked the Craftsman ones and in my opinion quality has gone down in the past years. They seem to operate very roughly so I plan on upgrading to Snap-on ratchets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor636 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 To me lifetime is lifetime. I've paid for the craftsman already, so I might as well abuse them. Snap-On will put you in debt real quick as a shade tree mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 My 3/8" ratchet the direction lever broke when I was at the junkyard last weekend, I was in acehardware Saturday, they are selling craftsman tools now, I asked if I could bring a broken tool back to them and they said yes. But they don't have the same ratchet I have so I will go to a sears store. I don't think the craftsman ratchets are rougher than other brands they may not be geared as fine as say a snap on. We have snap on ratchets (1/2") at work, Snap on actually came in with the lowest bid, but the snap on ratchet is night and day smoother than my craftsman, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I have 2 craftsman 1/2 drive ratchets, one patented in 1971 and a new fangled, smooth chromed, swoopy cool one; the actions aren't even close. The old one (with a rebuilt head) is much smoother, crisper and requires less rotation to operate so that is the one I always use. The 'new' one looks brand new even though it is over 10 years old because it never gets used. The difference is night and day. That said, the majority of my tools are Craptsman because they are generally reliable, lifetime warranty and have many outlets. Kind of the best bang for buck/hassle free policy in my book. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbinger Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Ill concur on snap on ratchets being awesome. My roomies one will get 3-4 clicks in the same range as my decade old craftsman gets one click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 just looked online and the ratchet I have seems like it is not available in the stores, so now i need to stop in and see what they have, I won't take a cheaper one in trade. Possibly they can order the one I have for store pickup than they can swap it out??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkorahil Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Snap-on and Matco are nice, but they are very proud of their stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I've got a mix of tool brands, I am far from loyal. Most of my stuff is a mix of Matco, Snap-On, Craftsman, and S&K (with a decent ammoun tof "gearwrench branded stuff i've had for many years yet see "Craftsman's brand new technolodgy just released" bs commercials for) . If it's something I tend to rely on I like to have stuff that has lifetime warranty and reliability. Nice that I get to see a truck once a week to get most things swapped out at besides Craftsman but it ain't exactly a far ride to sears to get a fresh one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreus009 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 but the snap on ratchet is night and day smoother than my craftsman, this my main point......really annoying when the ratchet is too to stiff ratchet off the nut, but you can't remove it by hand. My Father's old 1/2" drive Craftsman is very smooth compared to what they have in stores now. Kinda like what B was saying. I was gonna try to find some snap-ons at pawn shops but my 3/8" is dying quick so I may just have to order one...It'll be worth the money if it lasts and works like I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I went to a pawn shop one day looking for a 3/8 ratchet to use at work, my job gave me a set of 3/8" drive craftsman deep sockets for my work truck but the problem was the warehouse only stocks 1/2" drive ratchets, so I couldn't even use the socket set for a long time. Anyway stopped in a pawn shop one day and they had a snap on ratchet, 3/8" drive they were asking about the same price as if I bought it from snap on for a new one, so I found a cheap Chinese ratchet some where that I use at work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Musts been the pawn stars shop "we'll give you 2 bucks for this 50 dollar item and try to sell it for 200" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrariowner123 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 That pisses me off, really stupid that companies like sears do that. They know they are breaching a patent of a product they sold and now they have complete copy and they know that even if the guy wins, he will most likely be out of business and the end of it. Really makes want to stop buying sears products. Just my two cents. -Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 They know they are breaching a patent of a product they sold Are you certain of this? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrariowner123 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Are you certain of this? B No, but they sold that original product, and it sold well. Obviously im assuming they knew they were breaking a patent, but you would have to be really un-involved with product merchandising/sales/development at sears to not know they sold something almost identical. again, my opinion, assuming never is a good thing either, lol -Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Not poking at you, but my entire premise is that I suspect there is no patent infringement, just similar operating concept. As I said before, patents are weird things and depend entirely on how broadly (or narrowly) they are written. My turn to assume... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrariowner123 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Not poking at you, but my entire premise is that I suspect there is no patent infringement, just similar operating concept. As I said before, patents are weird things and depend entirely on how broadly (or narrowly) they are written. My turn to assume... B Correct, patents are exactly that,(ironically learning about patents in my Business Law class) I guess i lost focus and got more angry and started posting before my brain could stop me!!! And assuming that sears got really clever and was able to work around the narrow, patent, at the end of the day, alot of inspiration for seas's tool came from the original one. It will be interesting to see, i hope someone resurrects this thread in 5-10 years when the patent trial gets finalized. lol -Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 saw mine today cleaning out the truck some apparently mine are made by LoggerHead, so I guess I got a set from the 'original' company (though mine are a different line than the "Bionic Wrench") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 As much as I hate the action of their new ratchets (warranty), I can for sure say that a 1/2" drive will handle 2,500RPM. I don't know how much longer it'll last though. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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