ScottZ Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Ok, I know, I know, 'put it in D and go!' So I have a few questions about driving my 97 R50 with an automatic transmission. Mostly off road questions. I have always driven a standard when wheelin! When hill climbing, you guys just put it down into 1st to start and up shift if necessary? (Depending on the hill) Same thing in mud, sand, and thick stuff? I guess what I'm saying is, This is when you downshift and keep it in gear, feather the gas and keep the RPMs up.. That's what I do! I'm just lookin for some tips on wheelin an automatic... What about driving in the snow? What about keeping the O/D off when driving around town, under 45mph? I have heard talk of this... elaborate please? Thanks for any input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Keeping overdrive off around town will result in increased engine braking (for obvious reasons) but will probably result in poorer gas mileage due to higher RPMs. I turn overdrive off when going up bridges and with it off, I generally don't need to brake down bridges or at the foot of the bridge to keep my speed constant. I leave overdrive off until I pass the next intersection directly after the bridge, since if it turns yellow or is red I can still use the increased engine braking to coast toward the light. I've also read that one should have overdrive off when towing, but I've read mixed anecdotes about it. I'd figure it's fine to tow with it on, but having it off helps in engine braking and with any sort of load behind you, the more braking you can get the better I'd say. No personal experience with towing, though. I would suggest doing the following when parking: 1. Come to a complete stop (duh) 2. Shift into neutral 3. Engage the parking brake 4. Let go of the foot brake 5. Wait for the vehicle to settle completely 6. Now shift into park. It sounds annoying, but it becomes automatic (ha) after a while. This will make it easier to shift out of P, even on flat surfaces. The reason for this is that the vehicle's weight will no longer be resting on the tiny parking pawl inside the transmission (which does have the possibility of breaking), and will instead be resting on the rear drum brakes. Most of the time, I select another gear before disengaging the parking brake, but that probably doesn't matter much either way. No experience with wheeling. 2WD, open diff, highway tires, and 128k mile worn suspension can't go too far wheeling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottZ Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thanks for the reply! Yea, already park it that way. As you said, put the weight on the brake and not your trans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSquirrel Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Definitely drive with OD off if you are towing, or are heavily loaded and climbing hills and the truck is unable to keep the torque converter in OD. Disabling OD will allow the transmission to lock the torque converter, eliminating much of the heat that would get dumped into the transmission. For wheeling, select the lowest gear necessary. Generally for climbs, the transmission will choose what it needs, but for descents, lower gears provide the best possible engine braking. Loose terrain may dictate forcing the transmission into a given gear. TownCivilian's recommendation on parking is definitely the way to do it, especially if the ground is sloped. If the ground is more or less level, I don't generally use the parking brake(freezing up in winter), but parking using TCs method will be the easiest on the gearbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Indeed, do not use the parking brake in frigid weather - myself, being in Florida, obviously have no need to do so. Thanks for that tip! If you will be doing a significant amount of towing, definitely install an auxiliary transmission cooler. I also strongly suggest either an in-line filter or a spin-on filter mount no matter what. I personally run a Magnefine in-line filter on the transmission cooler return line, and have installed a B&M 70268 aux cooler, even though I don't do any towing. Heat is the biggest killer of transmissions, may as well minimize heat and particulates for a modest ~$100 investment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 When driving off-road, I always row through the gears. I never just put it "D" and let the tranny do the thinking. When off-road, you often want to keep the engine RPM in a predictable range, so that the right amount of power is instantly available, without making big changes in accelerator position. (To downshift from "D", a disproportionately large amount of throttle is needed, and the moment you let off the throttle, it'll shift back.) In fact, whenever I start from a stop after shifting into 4WD, I shift the tranny straight to "1". If the engine starts to rev too high, I shift to "2". If that's still not a tall-enough gear, I will shift to "D" (O/D off). I very rarely find use for O/D when using 4HI. When decelerating, I will also row the gears down. I tend to drive my auto tranny like a manual. The benefit is not needing a clutch. This technique assures that the right amount of engine torque and power is always instantly available. When driving on pavement, I usually use "D" with O/D on. Typical exceptions to this are congested freeways, steep grades, in which I will shift to the gear that best uses the engine's power and provides the most consistent speed. For example, on certain very steep grades, my truck cannot maintain 55mph in "D". In order to reach 55, I have to floor it (auto downshift to "2"), then let off. But then there's not enough torque to maintain that speed, despite applying more throttle. So, I just shift to "2" until the grade levels out again. I apply the same principles for using "O/D". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Seems to me that the ideal thing would be to have a manual transmission (with gear shifter, clutch etc.) but then also have a torque converter in the mix. You could keep the torque converter fully locked all the time until you went off road, where you would throw a switch to unlock it, and then you wouldn't need to use the clutch except to shift. Basically the torque converter would be a stall preventer and allow you to "slip the clutch" without actually slipping the clutch, if you know what I mean. Of course this is a bit too ridiculous to be practical, but it seems like it would be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Seems to me that the ideal thing would be to have a manual transmission (with gear shifter, clutch etc.) but then also have a torque converter in the mix. Something like this but better already exists. It's called a semi-automatic transmission (or "clutchless manual" or a myriad of other "marketing names") but not many vehicles have such a transmission. A good implementation of such a transmission is in the Mitsubishi Evo: Twin Clutch-SST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSquirrel Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Seems to me that the ideal thing would be to have a manual transmission (with gear shifter, clutch etc.) but then also have a torque converter in the mix. You could keep the torque converter fully locked all the time until you went off road, where you would throw a switch to unlock it, and then you wouldn't need to use the clutch except to shift. Basically the torque converter would be a stall preventer and allow you to "slip the clutch" without actually slipping the clutch, if you know what I mean. Of course this is a bit too ridiculous to be practical, but it seems like it would be good Full manual control over torque converter lockup is very nearly the same thing. There is a thread around here on how to perform the mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yeah, I guess I am aware that these sorts of things are the more practical implementation of what I'm talking about. But somehow neither is super appealing to me. I don't think that just putting in a switch to fully control the lockup of a automatic transmission is really the same thing... you can't shift with the converter locked for instance, right? Plus, there is no point in having an automatic transmission with all of it's decision making fluid stuff and planetary gears etc if you never want it to shift for you. The semi-automatic/dual clutch systems are perhaps better... I'm not sure how they deal with slippage/not stalling though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 i would select "2" and turn on the power e-at switch when wheeling. When you have bigger (33") tires, I would leave the power e-at switch on constantly. It locks the T.C. and keeps the heat down, especially on the highway and long hill climbs. Do use your parking brake all the time and follow the parking procedure the other user posted earlier. Once you wear off your parking pawls (the part that holds the truck in park) that is pretty much it for the transmission and you will need to rely 100% on the parking brake to hold the truck on a grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSquirrel Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yeah, I guess I am aware that these sorts of things are the more practical implementation of what I'm talking about. But somehow neither is super appealing to me. I don't think that just putting in a switch to fully control the lockup of a automatic transmission is really the same thing... you can't shift with the converter locked for instance, right? Plus, there is no point in having an automatic transmission with all of it's decision making fluid stuff and planetary gears etc if you never want it to shift for you. The semi-automatic/dual clutch systems are perhaps better... I'm not sure how they deal with slippage/not stalling though. The semi auto is definitely nifty technology. In practice, though, a normal automatic works fine 99% of the time, even for people who wheel regularly. The only time manual intervention with the torque converter would be needed is where extra engine braking or hill-climbing torque limiting is desired. Rev matching and the ability to shift is a definite convenience with a full-blown semiauto, but in practice, manual override would be used very rarely. Think of using the lockup switch as you would the clutch pedal, but the beauty is you'd only need to engage it when you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 i would select "2" and turn on the power e-at switch when wheeling. When you have bigger (33") tires, I would leave the power e-at switch on constantly. It locks the T.C. and keeps the heat down, especially on the highway and long hill climbs. R50s don't have that fancy e-at switch. Also, has anyone ever heard of a parking pawl actually wearing out from normal use, i.e. not something ridiculously stupid like using only the transmission to hold the vehicle on a very steep hill, etc? I mean it's certainly a possibility, but so many people don't park the "right" way, and they're fine. I've only read of a few instances where the parking pawl actually broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 The semi auto is definitely nifty technology. In practice, though, a normal automatic works fine 99% of the time, even for people who wheel regularly. The only time manual intervention with the torque converter would be needed is where extra engine braking or hill-climbing torque limiting is desired. Rev matching and the ability to shift is a definite convenience with a full-blown semiauto, but in practice, manual override would be used very rarely. Think of using the lockup switch as you would the clutch pedal, but the beauty is you'd only need to engage it when you want. Right, basically what I was advocating for would appeal to people who prefer manual transmissions for whatever reason (logical or not). It would just remove the annoyance of stalling/clutch burning in offroad use, especially if you aren't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 R50s don't have that fancy e-at switch. Also, has anyone ever heard of a parking pawl actually wearing out from normal use, i.e. not something ridiculously stupid like using only the transmission to hold the vehicle on a very steep hill, etc? I mean it's certainly a possibility, but so many people don't park the "right" way, and they're fine. I've only read of a few instances where the parking pawl actually broke. Nige told me some of his parking pawls were worn out, but he has owned his truck for like 11 years or something, but mine has more km's and mine are perfectly fine? His truck is the only time I've heard of them wearing out on these vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) I believe there is only one parking pawl in a transmission, not multiple. Mine was parked only by selecting P for 9 years (then I started driving it), but then again there are no hills in Florida, so of course mine probably has hardly any wear on it. Edited September 21, 2011 by Towncivilian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream36realms Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 when going through mud the trick is to keep the truck moving. That means keep the RPM's kind of high as long as the vehicle is moving as it slows let off the gas a bit but not too low where you stop slipping. The worst thing to do in mud is to come to a stop or lower below 2k rpm's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I thought the O/D switch locked/unlocked the TC? Is that just a WD thing? Or am I on the wrong track altogether? One of the few times I've taken mine off-road, I had trouble getting it up a snowy hill. In D it wouldn't do it, just spun the wheels and slipped all over. But when I dropped it into 2, it cruised right up, no problem. The lower gears are also helpful when you're creeping through a nasty bit of back road, otherwise the trans keeps trying to shift up every time you let off the gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Presumably having OD on enables an overdrive gear where the driveshaft spins faster than the crankshaft. So you are basically choosing between a 3 speed and 4 speed transmission (I assume this is how many speeds are in the pathfinder automatics). Edited September 21, 2011 by sewebster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Initially only started to read as I was going to be a dork and say "D is for Dat way" and point forward and also to remember "R is not Right strait forward" I don't generally use the parking brake(freezing up in winter) Indeed, do not use the parking brake in frigid weather But these I do not agree with personally. Might be just what I see regularly or the fact I've grown up all my life on stick shifts but I suggest using it all year round. Letting the cables sit in one place and not touched especially through the seasons that are going to cause more corrosion/risk of sticking from staying stationary is not something I am personally a fan of. Just my 2 cents though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Perhaps if one keeps the parking brake cable well lubricated and constantly in use it wouldn't freeze up... but I'd imagine that depends on the ambient temperature, too? I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't generally use the parking brake(freezing up in winter) I am a Class A Driver and have been through a couple Winters. You are trained to never set the trailer brakes in the winter time because the brakes can freeze to the drum. In the winter we only use Tractor Brakes. If your Tractor Brakes freeze to the Drum it is not a big deal because they are powered -- release the brakes and gently pull foward or backwards and they will pop. The only real difference here is that a big truck has more power and torque. The few times my Tractor Brakes DID freeze to the drum, it took little effort to pop loose. Most of the time the issue was with picking up new trailers, (especially empty), that were driven wet and then dropped. If this happens, and there is no weight in the trailer or traction on the ground, you are done. Personally I would set the Parking brake the same as the previous person explained, take the weight off the transmission and shift to park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfounder Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Presumably having OD on enables an overdrive gear where the driveshaft spins faster than the crankshaft. So you are basically choosing between a 3 speed and 4 speed transmission (I assume this is how many speeds are in the pathfinder automatics). The OD button is just a way of keeping it out of 4th gear. It also appears to change the shift points to be a bit higher. The whole point of this feature is for towing. I can't think of any other situation where you would want to stay out of 4th gear. I suppose if you had big tires and it hunted a lot in town at medium speeds, then you'd want to turn off OD. Other than that, it should be enabled all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Indeed, do not use the parking brake in frigid weather - myself, being in Florida, obviously have no need to do so. Thanks for that tip! If you will be doing a significant amount of towing, definitely install an auxiliary transmission cooler. I also strongly suggest either an in-line filter or a spin-on filter mount no matter what. I personally run a Magnefine in-line filter on the transmission cooler return line, and have installed a B&M 70268 aux cooler, even though I don't do any towing. Heat is the biggest killer of transmissions, may as well minimize heat and particulates for a modest ~$100 investment! R50s have enough room up front to run a cooler twice that thickness: B&M 70264 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I wheel with the selector on 2 and the E-AT switch set to power. My ebrake doesn't work and I'm always parking on a incline of some sort, so I'm sure my parking pawl hates me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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