hawairish

So, a little update... At this point, I've done about nothing with this project except buy more parts. Can't move forward because MCP has no f*ing clue what they're doing. I returned those inferior joints weeks ago and still haven't seen replacements. I kept all the other parts in hopes of keeping this alive when the replacements came, but just today when I asked for another status, they said they'd have to issue a refund for those. At this point, they'll need to plan on issuing a full refund for everything. For anyone considering this project, don't deal with Midwest Control Products or Steinjager. Quality control sucks, parts availability sucks, order handling sucks (prices were good though!). These guys are losers in my book. My local TrueValue has spherical links. I might go in that direction, but for now, this project is on the back burner.

No sweat man! Hope the surgery goes well...def keep us posted.

Crude sketch of the replacement pads. Fine-pitch G8/C10.9 nuts are welded to the plates. The holes in the middle are for additional weld surfaces when mated to the unibody; the smaller holes would be easier to drill and fill, acting more like spot welds. You'd probably want 2"W steel now that I think about it...it'll ensure there's enough space to weld on the long edges.

Yes, don't give up! Just think...after this, you've crossed all the major hurdles, and short of taller custom SFD, you're at the max for lift (until the SAS fairy starts whispering in your ear...). One small modification to my last suggestion...instead of welding pieces to the spacers, you might be better off welding everything to the unibody. That way, if for any reason the SFD needs to come off, the spacers are unaltered and the subframe can be re-installed evenly (and you won't have to do any future work in this regard). And if you find that one side of the rear threads is ok, then you could just use a regular plate as a shim (no nuts welded on, no drilling out the threaded inserts). But, seems more reasonable to assume all four threaded inserts need replacing at this point.

Sorry, was still waiting for confirmation where the problem was, seeing if the pre-installation post sparked any ideas for you. But, supposing it is the rear bolts that are spinning, the option previously discussed was to gain access to the area inside the unibody by cutting/boring a hole and slipping a nut or plate (or both) inside. This approach is a bit invasive, and you don't really know how the inner surface space will look (it might not be flat enough for a plate). What you might be better off doing is welding in new "pads" on the unibody where the subframe meets it. Something tells me that if one is bolt/hole is bad, they're all bad. To fix, you'd basically be creating the simplest and smallest SFD in the world, using only flat steel. Get some flat steel that's 2" to 2.5" wide x .120" thick. Cut two 6"L pieces and drill two 5/8" holes 100mm apart. Weld two fine-pitched nuts behind the holes. Drill some other smaller holes (or one big hole) near center that will allow for additional welding surface (interior support for the plate). On the unibody, use a hole saw bit (maybe 1" dia...whatever is needed to clear the nuts) to bore out the OE threaded inserts. Put the plate up to the unibody, nuts recessed into the unibody, and weld it in place. Boom: new rear subframe pads. With this approach, you won't need to cut any other access holes, nor patch them up (this plate does that), and you replace both threaded holes in one shot. You'll still need to shim all the other spacers, but that's super easy. Just cut more flat steel to the length of the spacers, weld them directly to the KrF subframe spacers, and drill some new holes. You'll end up with a 4.120" SFD. The KrF spacers are different sizes of tube if the pictures I've seen are still accurate, but you should be fine using the same 2"-2.5"W flat steel. I wouldn't go more than .120" thick (and you probably won't need to) because the steering link might not allow for much more length beyond that (however, this can probably be overcome by add'l rotation of the steering rack). To attack this, you'd obviously need the subframe completely off...which is unfortunately a lot of work, of which the most difficult part will likely be hoisting everything back into place. You'll probably need everything off no matter how you decide to attack this, though. Let me know if you need a sketch to illustrate things. HTH!

Yep, completely agree, especially on the welded nut. One thought I had was to sink the nut into a larger hole and fill in the hex void to produce a tap-like result. These 10mm ones I got had a much smaller flange than I expected so I had some concerns over push-out. I went by Fastenal's worthless description after not seeing a stand-out difference in their spec sheets...the part labeled "large flange" has a smaller flange and is more low-profile than the identical part labeled "low profile". Who knew? I'm done with Fastenal anyway...switching to McM-C next (I wish boltdepot.com carried them). The true low-profile ones will work fine for the motor mounts, which are only torqued up to 41 ft-lbs. I've got the larger flange in transit to use for my tire carrier retrofit. I had concerns about spin out, but the tool I got collapses them solidly(?) and uniformly. Cheap as it was, worth every penny (have done about 20 so far between M6-M10). I tried the cheap-o way of collapsing them (nut, bolt, wrench) on my current skid plate spacer; what a pain. One set okay after a second go, but the other shifted when it collapsed. The stepper bit I have seems to be perfectly designed for these, too...really good fit on the holes (needing to tap them in a little). Any experience/advice for using backing washers on them? The hot topic for the tire carrier retrofit is reinforcement. I picked up some SAE washers for my initial skid plate spacer to use between the blind nut and steel to shim it (to allow for water drainage). Didn't go that route, though. But if I were to used them as backing washers (say, to improve pull-out resistance), I'd think it'd promote spin out. Thinking I could bond them to the metal, collapse the nut, then allow it to cure. Thoughts?

A buddy pointed out this thread with some particular notes from XPLORx4: http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/33886-rear-tire-hitch-on-a-2000-model/?p=638606. He notes it's not camera-accessible, but I can see the area on mine (the pics above). If something (anything) were there, part of it must be visible, even if were just the backs of the threaded holes. If any reinforcement exists, I'd have no reason to think it wouldn't exist for all threaded areas.

Thanks! Yep, rivet type. They're sold under a few names...which none of my local hardware stores know apparently. I've tried finding some details on the strength, too, but haven't gotten more detail than "carbon steel". Doesn't tell me a whole lot, but these are also being used for low strength applications where I don't suspect I'll have any problems. I wouldn't put them on the subframe spacer, but boy would that solve some of the clearance issues we were talking about for a 2". However, the tool I have is good for 12mm blind nuts.

So...I've read seemingly thousands of threads saying it's not worth the effort. The buzzword is "reinforcement" and the argument is that those with carriers have it, and those without don't. But where's the proof? I think somewhere along the lines, retrofitting a WD21 carrier to another WD21 blurred into some bastard spin-off for an R50. We've seen the carnage that was done on that one guy's WD21 to make it work...and in that case, yeah, I probably would just but another WD21 with one if I really wanted it. But, it's known that there was a separate reinforcement piece on WD21s. I've seen zero indication on any Nissan parts diagrams. What I really want is for someone with a tire carrier (or provisions for one) to prove that R50s are reinforced. This can be done in about 30 mins start-finish and just requires pulling some plastic clips and one panel. I believe in time-is-money, so if you want to earn a few bucks in the process, let me know. I'll even send you replacements for any clips you break. Here are the upskirts shots for a non-carrier quarter panel. The circle areas are where the mounting points would be, and consequently where to look for any reinforcement. Upper panel; the ridge leading up the circle is the tub for the taillight assembly: Lower panel; the circle is the area directly underneath the taillight tub. I'm dead-set on making this work. I have everything I need. But I've not convinced myself that any additional reinforcement is necessary or even used. And I'm totally cool with being proven wrong. My plan is to use 10mm blind nuts. I have a tool for inserting them, and I've already been using it with positive results. I don't see a need for a backing plate, but perhaps a backing washer wouldn't hurt on the upper mounts. The lower corner of the quarter panel is "dense" from bends...it's curves give it a lot of structural strength, especially since it supports the cantilevered weight. The upper mount area has less bends, but just need to resist pulling. The curvature of the brackets also helps...all the bolts oppose each other. If no one can do it by Saturday, I'll just head back to the junkyard and check for myself, but I love to save the trip if someone is willing to walk to their garage. I could also use some really good closer-up pics showing the placement of the upper and lower hinges relative to the taillight and liftgate, as well as the latching/support hardware under the liftgate. Reference measurements would be great. It'd especially like to know the gap is between the bottom of the carrier tube and the flat part of the bumper so I can stack some stuff for mock-up. I'd also love to make this into a build thread, since I know there are a lot of people who would love to make this work. Anyone willing to settle this once and for all?

Welp, here's one of 2 sets ready for powder coating: The large piece is for retaining the skid plate, like what I have for my current SFD. Bought myself a blind nut install tool, and it works great. Decided to do it on the motor mount spacers, which should make installation that much easier.

Nice! Yeah, I have length of steel that'll serve a similar purpose to bolt to the hub. I made something out of scrap that does the trick for now. The good news is that I'll get everything before the weekend, but not sure it leaves me enough time to rebuild everything and get the SFD on. I'd love to tackle all this stuff before I have to go back out of town for a couple weeks.

Saw the video, too. An obvious difference, and that's the concept I'd like to go for should I be in wheel-up scenarios. But, I'm the type who needs something quantitive to describe that. I mean, is that 80 ft-lbs, or 280 ft-lbs?...can't tell without measuring. Were you just idling in for the modified take?

Been thinking about it. Been to the website, too. The prices between them and my norms are about the same, but I usually go with Courtesy because of the Nico discount, which has basically covered shipping ($40 in this case). Now, if there's an NPORA discount... CP has been good about things, but they dropped the ball this time. We had some delays sorting out numbers/availability for these discs, which took too long to sort out. Found out this morning that they've been holding the older for a back-order item that they optioned to me to split off, and I took the option. SFD install: delayed. Lokka install: delayed. LSD rebuild: delayed.

Well, worth a shot, I guess. Did you try wiggling any of the harnesses or wires while running? Wouldn't remove any while truck is ON. Are all the screws on the back snug? As for the other wires...well, everywhere. The FSM should spell out specifically what wires to look for (color, pin position, connector type), how to test, and acceptable range (voltage, resistance, etc.). If I were troubleshooting this, I'd be working a multimeter on the back of the gauge cluster and watching the voltage during revs (assuming the tach readout is voltage-based, which I'm sure it is). I'd first probe on the tach itself; If the readout increases with engine RPMs but the needle jumps or flatlines, then it's probably the gauge itself. Then, start working away from it: on the circuit board near tach, on the circuit board near the harness, and then on the harness. Keep working away from the tach. I believe the next point is the distributor (this is where I wired in a tachometer on my 1998 Frontier); the gauge cluster is between the distributor and ECU and I don't think there'd be any more connectors, except at the distributor, IIRC. You can also try putting the multimeter in Ohm mode and check simple resistance between the points I mentioned above (may need to wiggle things...check for continuity first, then wiggle something to see if drops).

Word. So was tightening up your LSD because the stock one wasn't enough? That was the original conclusion I was hoping to understand (from anyone), since it would've played into what diffs, discs, and what nots to look for and purchase. Not really relevant now, since Nissan didn't have as many discs as I originally wanted. I scaled back to what was available (yet the dealership apparently still has their thumbs up their a's, and all my projects are postponed...) The nice part is that I can bench test everything before taking apart the truck, but it just gives me a number and not a "feel".

Shouldn't take more than a Phillips to pull the gauge cluster, I think...at least that's how it is on my 04. Two screws for the bezel (slide your hand palm up above the cluster and you should feel the holes), and 4 for the cluster, in my case. Was similar for my Frontier, but I had to remove some lower plastic to see the lower screws. I had issues with my Frontier cluster long ago...the printed circuit board ('sheet') had started to crack near the connectors...was causing the illumination to sometimes turn off half the bulbs (hitting the dash helped), but also caused the speedo needle to go flat (which interrupted the speed sensor signal to the ECU and threw some errors). Bought a replacement board from Nissan and everything fixed. The new clusters use a rigid circuit board, so it's not an issue. But judging by the pictures in this auction, it uses the flexible circuit board. The white parts on the back are where the connectors go. Mine were cracked near these openings where the board flexes to make contact with the connect. The cracks were tiny, so look carefully.

Yep, I get the extra disc part; you added a disc to each side, and each is essentially half-height. I wouldn't be able to tell if you were in or out of OE spec without knowing your initial stack height (which is what I'd really like to know). In my case, I could do what you've done and still be in spec. The two LSDs I broke down had very low stack heights, and consequently low break-aways. I was surprised to see that 150% more friction surface and .1mm (.2mm total) only produced another 25 ft-lbs. The "better" LSD has the same disc:plate setup as the WD21, but produces 25% of the OE WD21. The standard size part was 1.5mm, and assuming the stack used all standard sizes, that'd only be 19.5mm (mine are 19.3mm and 19.4mm; both will be 19.6mm). That all said, the WD21 must've had some 1.6mm to go above 19.5mm. If you went over with your shims, you must've had at least that. Do you recall having any 1.6mm discs/plates in those stacks?

B: Those OD/ID numbers pretty much killed it, at least for using an LSD carrier and side gears. The ID is just a little smaller than the OD on the side gears (sorry, don't have my measurements handy to give exact numbers). Even if the numbers were better, the cut on the teeth surely wouldn't mesh right: Getting somewhat decent measurements was tough with all the angles and round edges/faces. I'm not surprised by the results though. In the pics I've seen of the 2-piece open carriers and 2-piece LSD carriers, the LSD "center" is noticeably smaller (there's a gap between the center and the ID of the ring gear). Haven't pulled the open carrier yet, but I think I've seen the side gears look very similar, which makes this a no-go. MY1PATH: Do you remember if your stacks were still within OE spec after machining them down? I'd still love to know what the original stack height was to pull those OE torque numbers.

Yeah, they can be welded. Short of pulling the engine (and probably not even necessary then), there's no compelling reason to pull the subframe down...except for an SFD! So, sounds like this hardware dilemma you're in might ripple elsewhere. Probably best that I give you more heads-up so you can assess the big picture. That said, let's talk hardware... I just wrote this up: http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/40356-pre-installation-check-up-before-getting-an-sfd/ Long story short: I wouldn't worry about the front subframe bolts. That has an easy workaround. If the rear bolts spin, you might be in trouble. But, I thought of something that might be better than what Patqx4 and I noted previously that doesn't require major invasive surgery to the unibody.

Rather than clutter up CDN_S4's build thread with info that might be useful for others, I thought I'd regurgitate some knowledge that everyone considering an SFD should be aware of before going forward with it. In CDN_S4's case, he's dealing with some rust issues that make removing hardware difficult, but for every problem: a solution. Before diving into things, you'll want to check out these areas so that you can better assess how to install an SFD. I hope to have thorough installation instructions in the near future, though there are some good existing write-ups (most useful so far: http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/31584-my-pathy-project-lifting/) That said, let's go... You'll need to remove/loosen bolts in these locations: front subframe rear subframe steering link steering rack motor mount CV/axle/front driveshaft strut Front subframe: The front subframe "bolts" are actually two bolt assemblies, and they can be replaced. They're 12mm x 1.25 x 150mm bolts affixed to a bracket. You can get new ones from Nissan (54418-0W00A; OE flange nut is 54588-0W00A, or OE equivalent is Dorman 433-512...Nis), or just replace them with (4) 1/2"-20 x 6" bolts and matching hardware. I tested this with 8" bolts when test-fitting the 1.5" spacers. Can't go wrong with thick SAE washers, but the OE bolt doesn't even have anything washer-like on the assembly. But, if you go with separate bolts, you may need a helper to keep a wrench on the bolt head...the OE assembly prevents the bolt from spinning. They can obviously be welded in, too. Left: front EO subframe bolt assembly; Right: rear OE subframe bolt. Both shown in the orientation they are installed in the truck (fronts down, rears up) These assemblies are located in the engine compartment on the unibody "rail" where it opens up for the engine. The passenger side is tougher to get to because of a rigid line that runs directly over it. The drivers side requires disconnecting the steering shaft. Both are held in by an 8mm bolt. In my case, the bolts were in good shape and were re-used, but the flange nuts should be replaced when removed. Passenger side: Drivers side: Rear subframe: These bolts are 14mm x 1.5 x 45mm (p/n 54459-0W01A). It's only threaded to 35mm. If you can re-use the threaded holes, you'll need that bolt size. If these bolts are spinning, that will be a problem. Steering link: You'll need to loosen the upper and lower bolts at the ends, and completely remove the middle bolt (otherwise it can't collapse enough to remove the link...ask me about the 15 mins it took to remove the link). Steering Rack: You will need to rotate your steering rack. There are two 22mm bolts, and they're on tight. There's also a bracket that connects a rigid line to the crossmember, and another bracket on the reservoir hose that connects to the unibody. Both brackets will need to be disconnected. Motor mount: each motor mount has two integrated 10mm x 1.25 studs and uses flange nuts (08918-3401A). The nuts will have to be removed without damaging the motor mount, and are really only accessible after pulling down the axle. CV/axle/front driveshaft: You've got the 12 CV bolts (6 per side), then 8 larger bolts (4 per side, 54710DA in the diagram, 54726-0W005) that connect the axle housing to mounting brackets. I don't have measurements on these bolts, but I expect they are 10mm x 1.25 (CV) and 14mm x 1.5 (axle). The front driveshaft will need to be disconnected; Nissan recommends replacing the 4 bolts and nuts when removed (37120-0P00A bolt, 37171-7S00A nut; I recommend OE parts because part of the driveshaft flange prevents the bolts from spinning, just need a wrench on the nut) Strut: Since the struts will likely need to be removed if you're adding spacers or springs, you'll need to remove the upper strut mount (strut tower) hardware from inside the engine bay, and the lower bolts connecting to the spindle. The strut mount bolts, I believe, are 10mm x 1.25, but I'm not sure (they're affixed to the mounting plate, 54322 in the diagram), but it's all somewhat irrelevant. If you're adding spacers, you'll need to modify the mounting plate to use longer bolts. Mine were replaced some time ago, and the holes have been enlarged to accept 12mm or 1/2" hardware The lower strut bolts are 14mm. If you're not using offset strut spacers (like those included in the KrF kit), then you might need 1 or 2 sets of 14mm camber bolts (set = 2 bolts), easily found on eBay.

I hope to have that answer very soon. My inclination is nothing, despite a lot of other threads. Every has said there's reinforcement but I've never seen any definitive proof. It might as well be a miniature Bigfoot that holds everything together. (There was a bracket for the WD21, though.) After diving through various p/ns and diagram, the part numbers only suggest the quarter panels differed between having holes or not, and having fender flares or not. There are no parts diagram that show any substructures or additional hardware for the tire carrier. Perhaps the panel is reinforced, but a video I took last weekend doesn't indicate any significant sound difference. I'm hoping to test fit the carrier tonight.

But isn't this shimmy relatively new? Did it start before or after your recent trip? Sorry if I missed it in a previous post. I agree with the mechanic's assessment to get the SFD on (see below). I personally think it's just because of the angle of your tie rods. If your tires are still visibly toed, your TREs must be at/near max length (and consequently a higher angle). Here's how I think about it...what's more stable in terms of resisting lateral flex on the steering system? (In very crude form, pretend the "/", "\", and "—" represent the TREs...) 1: [wheel] / [steering rack] \ [wheel] 2: [wheel] — [steering rack] — [wheel] The more level the TREs, the better resistance, right? Not saying the TREs are bent/bending, but at an angle, there's just less ability for it to resist left-right motion. SFD is the answer. I had a really bad shimmy when I got my truck. Got it aligned, and got the tires rebalanced...twice, actually. Rotated tires. No matter what I did, always happened at the same speed range. Kept thinking it was the Duratracs, and just learned to live with it and avoid the freeway. Put the SFD on, no shimmy...and that was without an alignment. Obviously, you're in a dilemma to get that SFD on. Patqx4's suggestion is exactly how I'd approach it, and I don't think you'd need anything special except someone to maybe tack in a backing plate with a nut welded on, and to weld a patch over the access hole when done. You could use a drill-attached hole-saw bit to get easy access. And this could all be done separately from the SFD install. Doubt it'd take maybe more than a couple hours. I didn't see an answer to which subframe bolts you're having problems with. Is it the rears?

That sucks, man. Which bolts are rusted, seized, or spinning? I'm assuming it's only the rear subframe bolts.

Excelente. And good luck getting all the stuff you need!

I was under the impression that the ignition switch was either riveted to the column, or used security bolts where the head shears off after fastening. Maybe just a security bit? Obviously, these things are meant to deter theft, so I can't imagine the process of replacing parts—whether the guts or the whole assembly—to be simple. Almost seems like you'd save yourself some trouble by just buying the whole steering column... If the cable I mentioned does exist, it should terminate near the ignition switch, I'd think. You could probably trick it there. One parting thought...you didn't say whether you had an MT or AT, but the donor is an AT. If you have an MT and have the push button like what RedPath88 posted, something tells me you shouldn't get this ignition switch. (Unless you think you can just get the tumbler assembly and install it in your existing column). The whole point of both ignition lock types is to prevent the key from turning to the Lock position before the key can be removed. This is likely to prevent the steering column from locking while driving. I guess just make sure you're not defeating that system, right?