hawairish

That's along the lines of what I'm thinking, too. My other thought is that a slight difference in end length might keep enough tension on the sway bar, but I wonder if it'll make it tough to install/remove. They also can't be too different in length.

These seem like the very last things I would do. Was there any way to loosen the motor mounts to get some play out of it? I mean, that was kinda your original question, but unless your unibody is shrinking, I can't think it's more than just a minor alignment issue as described above. I wish you the best of luck of course, but I'm a little worried the next post will involve a sawzall!

Not as much as I'd like, but some things progressing. I'm planning to up things to a 3" SFD and release that information instead of a 2.5". Nothing wrong with the 2.5" approach, but 3" steel is just easier to acquire and work with. I'll be testing things hopefully in the coming month or two, but my work/travel schedule is limiting my time.

As promised, eBay links: High strength steel Stainless Steel Note the pics are just generic pics, and I had him mention that the HSS isn't plated. He can do custom sizes, lengths, and quantities. But if anyone else is willing to give it this a shot, there you go! The heim joints seem to be favorable in general, but the reason I'm wanting to see how this goes is just because the perceived simplicity. All those other joints have spacers, collars, and pins...too many loose parts to fudge with. I really like the idea of one-handing it all, if it can really be that easy. But yes, securing the bar is the other half of the problem. (I have no doubt some guys are biting their tongue about the 'just remove it!' theory)

Finally found some posts about someone else's attempt at using these disconnects. Jeep: http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-show-tell-33/tried-making-swaybar-disco-129056/ Isuzu: http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=66914 I'm obviously not the first to go this route. It helped knowing what to call these things. Oh, per the Isuzu thread, McMaster-Carr sells the joints also, just not the inline (S/QIL) ones: http://www.mcmaster.com/#ball-joint-linkages/=x4os1i. I'm guessing they're the same, but at least there's another supplier. The last guy on that thread said he had some problems disconnecting, but I gotta wonder if it's just about the angle or something. Obviously, they should go in without issue...so I'd think they'd come out without issue. (Guess we'll find out.) Both read like there will be some noise, but I'll chance it. I figure no matter how you look at it, most disconnects have metal-metal contact...noise is seemingly a given. However, those same posts have some other approaches using Heim joints...so at least you can try another route. Note that in the Jeep thread, MCP gave specs of 5389 lbs for ball stud breakage and 1500 lbs socket pull. Those seem sufficient, but we'll know eventually. Again, if SJ produces links with them (the QIs anyway), then who knows. Also, the eBay guy came back with $69 shipped for a set of 4 links in either flavor. Both include hardware (8 nuts), but the price on the high strength steel doesn't include plating; he'll get me that price separately. I'm waiting to post the listings because I want him to make some little corrections so there aren't any mixed signals if anyone else wants to go this route.

Meant to reply to this earlier, but ran short on time. Although I know you're already trying to source a set, I think the TJM brackets are actually a really good KISS solution. Far simpler than the others I've seen (see below). The way I see it, these are designed for a winch bumper similar to the ARB. The folded-over metal on the upper part of the bracket does a lot to add rigidity. It's also designed to succumb to significant impact so that in a collision, the bumper moves downward to deflect impact (the angled tie ins prevent the bumper from wrapping upward). But in direct collision, it's simple enough to distort inward, and even retains the stock crush cans. You want something to have a weak point here, otherwise, the rest of the vehicle and it's passengers absorb the impact. But as you can see, it's also designed to distribute pulling forces from winching. I personally think this is the perfect solution. Now, compare to these: The gray ones are ARB. I don't know about the black ones. These are ridiculous from a manufacturing standpoint; tons of cuts, welds, punches, bends, gussets...and they all do the same thing: hold a bumper, collapse on impact. I'm sure they're solid, but they reinvented the wheel to get there. I can't even imagine the amount of man hours on these...no wonder ARBs cost so much. I'm not even sure I like the tow points on the ARB. TJM = 3 pieces of steel + 1 bend + 1 hour of welding. That's the direction I'd go.

I got a response from the eBay guy...he actually put up two auction links and gave a single price for all the items I spec'd (1/2" and 3/8" sizes) instead of individual prices. He can do a high strength steel (needs plating to be anti-corrosion for a little extra $) or SS (but not as strong). It averaged out to about $16/shaft, shipped, for either option. That's good enough for me! These are also nice, finished shafts, not just a fully threaded rod. I'm going to ask him to modify the auctions to just be for the 1/2" shafts in the actual quantities any one person might need to make a front and rear set. He also ships to Canada, eh! The lengths I'm having him go with are 4.5" and 6", which allows for a front link up to 1" less in length over OE (6.5"-7.5") and a rear link of 8-5/8" to 9-5/8" (for lifts of 1.5" to 2.5"). At max length, though, you're only using 1/2" of thread length (the connector ends are only 1" deep). I'm also asking him to price one more option: same specs except with a 5/8" rod turned down to 1/2" at the ends and two parallel flats milled at the center of the shaft to accommodate a 1/2" wrench. This way the shaft is never less than 1/2" dia. and we can prevent the shaft from turning when the end nuts are tightened against the connectors. Not sure how necessary this might be, but doesn't hurt to get a price.

I actually have the pics of the other brackets on my iPad, but no way to upload them until tonight. I think I found them on an Aussie site.

Give this a look-see: http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/23286-tjm-t-15-install/ ARB's bracket design is a little more elaborate, and I've seen a 3rd bracket style somewhere that was overkill, but the TJM seemed about right...allows for crumpling, but solid enough for pulls.

Ah yes, that bottom pic. I thought I saw something more substantial than that, but you're right. I thought it tied in lower with the boltholes for the OE tow hook plates. I've pulled my bumper before and those plates are very weak (I had to bend one a little).

I was pretty sure he didn't re-use any part of the OE brackets. Doesn't look like you'd be able to re-drill or use the parts of the new bumper's bracket that you have to cut off?

Guess that's a good thing. I mean, we've spelled out the concept clearly so hopefully anyone who's looking for a solution finds it here. Also hope they chime in with their results to keep this as a resourceful thread for everyone.

I agree. You'll have to let me know how the parts are when you get them, since you'll see them before I will. No word from the eBay guy yet.

You could try a small L bracket on the perch and go with 8 SQI500 (the SS versions) instead. I actually have some concerns over the pulling force of the S/QIL500 anyway, but using them seems to be a more ideal setup to me. The problem with only 1 wire loop is that nothing "resets" the side without a loop. A droop on the looped side will tug the sway bar end upwards, but when the body roll returns to center (or a droop on opposite side), nothing tugs that sway bar end back up, which means the looped side's sway bar end may actually contact something when that side's tire tucks. Both loops just allow the chassis to tug the sway bar ends to articulate the sway bar, but by not being rigid, they defeat the sway bar's function. But with only 1 loop, you'd always end up with a sway bar pointing upwards. I think the logic applies to both front and rear axles, but it may actually be possible to pin the front bar up and skip the loops altogether. The problem is that the front sway bar's arms angle away from the wheel well, so an attachment point in the wheel well might not be close enough (or at an angle that the link can't handle). But, I like the original plan because it can be done one-handed, blindly, and you wouldn't have to go back and forth between tires to pin it up (i.e., unlink pass side, unlink driver side, pin up driver side, pin up pass side....though I guess you wouldn't need to pin up the other side?)

I've got a message out to a guy on eBay who sells threaded shafts and does special orders. I asked him about 1/2" sizes that I'll be going with, but also about two 3/8" options for you. The first option is just a 3/8" rod with RH threads on both sides, but the other is a 1/2" rod that's turned down to 3/8" at the ends. That way, you've got a slightly beefier option and can still have a no-drill solution (though in hindsight, I could've asked for something a little more substantial, like 5/8" or 3/4"). Regardless, we have options for beefier links at any size. I also asked him to give some options for materials that were close to a Grade 8 zinc-plated. For me, that's all I need (dry heat here), but perhaps he's got a suitable SS option for you. I'm going to buy a 1/2-20 die and explore making my own threaded shafts. The big box stores didn't have any UNF threaded rods, but they had steel/SS rods. An shipping is probably terrible for any sizable length of rods. I have a compound miter saw that I rigged up for chopsaw cuts (worked great for the SFD spacers). But if push came to shove, I'm sure you could hacksaw threaded rod found locally? Also, I was thinking about effective link lengths. For the front link, my logic might be incorrect...the "corrected" length might actually be a little less than the OE effective length. Any lift (strut spacer or lift coil) not netted out by SFD spacers cause the attachment point on the strut to actually get lower relative to the sway bar. So to keep the sway bar at it's stock (and presumably "ideal") angle, then a shorter link is needed...but there's definitely a limit to this logic. In the rear when lifted, it's moving higher relative to the sway bar, so a longer length is needed. In all likelihood, I'll leave the effective link about the same up front because I know it's working as is, but I will increase the rear link about 2". Let me know what threaded rod lengths you come up with. I've got: 5.5" of 1/2" rod to maintain 7.5" length up front using two QI500 4.5" of 1/2" rod to maintain 7-1/8" using one QI500 and one QIL500 5.5" of 3/8" rod to maintain 7-1/8" using one QI375 and one QIL375

Ah yes, they had limited stock on the SS stuff. But the non-SS is zinc galvanized and should hold up pretty well. Don't buy the rods...one side is LH thread. The disconnects are RH thread. I'm heading to Lowes in a few to check their supply if fine threaded rods...thinking they'll only have coarse thread though.

Well, I just ordered enough to make two sets of front and rear of disconnects. Went with the 1/2" all around. The discount volume is great...shipping was a bit pricey for UPS Ground...it was almost half the order. Total was just under $90 shipped...but enough to make 4 sets of links?! Totally worth it. If it doesn't work out, well, I have another project where these might come in handy (hint: a tailgate for the PF as part of a project rear cargo system). About the U-bolt plate...I plan to get a plates around 1.25"W x 4"L and use them at all attachment points, front and rear. Each will have two bends: a 45° that the wire rope will loop through to keep it away from the link, and a U-shaped bend that will "wrap" the attachment point (bigger U shape for the sway bar ends, smaller/flatter U for the rear upper and strut perches. The U part will have a hole on both sides for the ball joint threaded shafts to go through; the U shape will act like a washer on both sides of the attachment point and will prevent the tab from rotating when it pulls on the sway bar (when the links are off, that is).

Where are you seeing them not in stock? A small dab of multi-purpose should be sufficient I'd think. I doubt there's much play in the socket to need gobs of it. And judging by their drawing, there's a small pocket behind the socket where grease can reside.

I wouldn't downplay force. In fact, I think it's way more than we might expect, but I don't know how to quantify it. Think about when you're cornering...the truck wants to roll. The suspension on the outside of the turn bears weight, but the suspension on the opposite side of the vehicle does nothing to counteract it. The sway bar (I mean anti-sway bar) bears the weight on both sides...one side wants to compress the end link, and the other wants to extend. Faster speed around the corner, exponentially more force. In experience, I've actually busted a nut (uh, yes, final answer) off a shaft-style end link (like the upper part of the rear link) on my Frontier. Not sure how, but did. So I assume the force to be significant. Exactly.

Again, sorry if I came off harsh. Definitely not my intention, just saying that this thread and the previous haven't really shown us anything. You've lifted your truck, but it's a mystery how, and I'm puzzled what the point really is if you're not willing to share more details. But you see how details just kind of trickle out, right? There's been no mention of dropping the diff. I'm very familiar with what it takes to drop the subframe, and many other components, having done all that work personally (a couple times actually). I'm very curious to know how you've accomplished it...not to bash you on how to did it, but because I'm genuinely interested to know how you solved this or that problem. I spent months hammering out tiny details just for a trivial 2.5" SFD, but I don't question its integrity at all. I think there's an upper limit using this approach, though. Ok, so you dropped the control arm points and the differential, but obviously couldn't drop the steering rack any further because it sits above the crossmember. But why did you go this route instead of just redoing the subframe spacers? At that point, you have far more room to "safely" brace components. I'd imagine that you could build LH and RH frames (as opposed to individual spacers) that also lower the strut tower position (tied into the OE perches). By keeping the subframe completely intact, you wouldn't have to play with the OE geometries, but now you've got geometries that might be out of spec. It's good you're not seeing bumpsteer, but I'd still be cautious. Those full-size large 6"-8" lift kits are fundamentally no different than a subframe drop: Big brace = subframe spacers New spindles = strut spacers Nothing about the stock geometry changes, which I think is the best way to approach it if you just want lift. As for no vehicle being designed for lifting, I'd disagree. As for vehicles being designed to be lifted 9"-12", I totally agree for just about anything lacking straight axles (except older Fords with the I-beam style front axles like Rangers and Explorers). Nothing impossible, just some ways are better than others. In all seriousness, I'd love to see more pictures and have this be something we see more of down the line. Again, it's the whole "building it up for the next owner" thing that baffles me. When I sold my Jeep...I pulled off lift springs, sliders, guards...everything...because they added nominal value to the trade-in. Then I sold everything to Joe Jeeper for as much as I paid for them (if not more). That's where the diminishing returns comment came in. Wouldn't it be reasonable to focus your energy and money on the next project?

Thoughts: 1. Ideally, I'd like to have a no-drill solution for both front and rear. Problem is that the 3/8" components are a little smaller in all proportions to the 1/2" links. That means a thinner threaded rod (and thinner than OE), but also about 1" more exposed thread than if it were 1/2". It seems plausible that a 3/8" link might be weaker than OE. As such, a 1/2" link seems more appropriate for the rear, even if it requires drilling holes wider. (The fronts will be 1/2") 2. Conveniently, 1/2" components are cheaper than 3/8" no matter how you spin it, so I will go the 1/2" route front and rear. 3. MCP has this little blurb on their Warranties page: "Ball Joints (ie: ES, ESA, Qi, SQi series, etc.) are very light duty; they are typically used only in hand or foot actuated linkages." I'm struggling a little with this one. Steinjager was born from MCP...it actually says that on their website. So why would I think that MCP sells a "very light duty" component that isn't suitable for the SJ link? The rest of their warranty page basically says, "don't quote us on strengths for anything we sell". 4. I didn't see much for reviews on the SJ links. There's a Youtube vid that a Jeeper posted up, but that guy also got completely (and unnecessarily) flamed by other Jeep f*ckheads for even putting disconnects on a Jeep (and that his frame was rusty). The problem with discos on a Jeep is that the wheel base and controls arms are too short, which leads to a higher potential of popping a spring on lifted Jeeps, and I think that's the point they were (poorly) trying to make. I think it's less of a problem for us, but I'm open to concerns. This can only be tested to some degree on a shop floor. 5. I was exploring 1/8" wire rope (i.e., steel cable, steel lanyard) options looped through a u-bolt plate/strap with some bends on it. This would attach with the hardware and would only come into play when the link is removed. I'd have to sketch this out so you have a better idea of its shape/function. On a side note...maybe we should ask a moderator to rename this thread in the spirit of DIY disconnects?

The front driveshaft doesn't articulate, and is above the plane between the control arms' rear mounts...so why'd you go over the driveshaft? I also agree with XPLORx4...I think you will have a lot of bumpsteer and it will track poorly, with high probability of bent tie-rods. Still, why go through all this effort if you're trying to sell it? I really think you've reached the point of diminishing returns. We'd get it if you were planning to keep it and wheel it, but that doesn't seem to be the case. To be frank, I've not seen anything that would make me trust your setup, and nothing about this post or the previous 9" Lift! posts seems to make sense to me. I want to be awed, but it hasn't happened. I totally get what you're trying to do and how to accomplish it, but I have serious concerns that it's being done correctly or safely, and I think (hope) the community feels this way. You're flaunting that you've got some ungodly amount of lift on a vehicle that responds poorly to, and is simply not designed for, ungodly amounts of lift without real fabrication. Yet you're completely vague on the details, and the pics just leave us hanging. Either you lack pride and ingenuity in your work, or you secretly acknowledge it might not be safe, but hey: 12" Lift! Again, I really don't want to sound like a dick here (and maybe it's too late for that), but I hope this doesn't see action on the road anytime soon. If my intention was to sell two trucks, I'd be returning one to stock height, selling both separately as-is (or scrapping the donor), selling a tire/wheel package for a pretty penny to some Chevy/Toyota guy, and scrapping some steel. In a dream world, I'd have sold the donor truck, pulled the subframe, and begun SAS'ing it.

I presume the tolerance will be snug, so minimal noise if any. But, I'd plan on greasing the sockets regardless, which will suppress noise. The OE rear links are 7-1/8" (effective length from bottom of perch to socket center), and the front links are 7-1/2" socket center-center. The actual length of the completed link will be longer than those values, of course. The precision of the length is somewhat arbitrary, though. For the rear, the effective length should technically increase equally with the amount of lift. In the front, the effective length should change by the amount of lift (strut spacers and coils) less subframe drop height (for those with SFDs, of course). Both calculations put the sway bar at stock angles. In my case, I'll probably make my rear links about 2" longer, but the fronts will stay the same length. But really, the stock rear length appears fine, so maybe I won't change it much. I'm crunching the numbers now. The thread depth of the joints don't allow much for adjustable length, but I don't see that as necessary. The crappy part is that even if I order these up soon, I won't be able to touch them for a couple weeks due to work travel.

LOL: These guys are 5 blocks from each other. Midwest Control Products Corp., 590 East Main Street, Bushnell, IL 61422 USA Steinjäger, Inc. Hwy 9 West Box 299, Bushnell, IL 61422 Anyone want me to make some extra sets? Volume discounts!

I was thinking a pool noodle or pipe insulation and duct tape...pad up the hoop and let it rest on the differential. But, I'm convinced that a strap/cable would work just fine. I'll have to rig up a model of some sort to confirm. BUT DUDE: DIY DISCONNECTS! I Googled "ball joint quick disconnects" on a hunch. That first pic I posted (made by Steinjäger) appears to have been made entirely by parts from Midwest Control. They have an impression selection, detailed website, and do online orders. So, here's what I'm thinking... 2x QIL375 180° @ $12.66/ea for the upper rear perches: http://www.midwestcontrol.com/part.php?id=128 2x QI375 90° @ $3.45/ea for rear sway bar http://www.midwestcontrol.com/part.php?id=115 4x QI500 @ $3.76/ea for the fronts http://www.midwestcontrol.com/part.php?id=116 The OE rear links have 10mm studs and fronts are 12mm. These rears would be 3/8-24 (9.5mm) and 1/2-20 (12.7mm). You'd barely need to enlarge the front sway bar eyelets a trivial amount. They have metric disconnects, too (see QM10 and QM12), but not for the 180° joint; metrics are also a little more expensive, but not by much. They sell threaded linkages, but with an LH and RH thread. I didn't see any disconnects as LH thread, though. I sent them an email to see if they do RH/RH links, since their links look better than a simple threaded rod, and they do various lengths for a couple bucks each. They also sell the jam nuts. We're looking at $50 in parts for front AND rear links! Midwest also sells heim joints so you could make your own link exactly like the Steinjäger ones. Assuming the parts are the same, I think these will also have plenty of strength. Since these can be removed/installed with one hand, I also did a simple test: I can touch the ends of each link on my truck by just reaching around the tire. And that's without having to lay on the ground. All that remains on after the link is disconnect are little ball joint studs and the limit straps. The link disconnects in one piece. Something tells me I'm making a purchase tonight. I'll probably go with 1/2-20 (QI500/QIL500) all around so I can just buy a 2' length of threaded rod, cut it down, maybe sleeve it with heat shrink or flexible tubing to keep the elements off it. Their volume discounts even start at 2 pieces. I'm gonna be losing sleep tonight thinking about how bad ass this is going to be! (Sorry for the long post...excited.)