unccpathfinder Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I've had the new truck for almost 2 months now and i noticed a vibration in the rear as soon as i got it and knew she had just had the tires/rims put on i figured the tires were out of balance but had told the gf to remind me to check the lugs when we got done driving to the beach and we both forgot and i didnt think anything of it until yest when i was cleaning up the truck and noticed that 1 of the lugs was only hanging on by like 2 threads so i go to tighten it down by hand and it tighten it just backs off so i thought crap i ate the threads off of the stud checked it and the stud was good but it looks like they stuck the lug nut on by a thread or maybe not at all and cranked it on cross threaded and/or they over tightened it...it looked very nasty but made me mad all in all my vibration is gone and this is the 2nd time i've had a lug get loose on me although the front 1 was a lot easier to detect and no wonder people in motorsports get crazy when they feel a vibration cuze it was pretty bad at road speeds so does any1 else ever have problems with tire places and doing stupid things like cross threading or tightening too much? i've had this run in at about 5 or 6 different places...but recently found that the tire kingdom here does a good job of not messing things up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Nope. Never have a problem here... That's because I REFUSE to let them touch the lug nuts with an impact wrench while installing. They have two choices: 1) Let me install. (I bring my torque wrench with me). 2) Do it by hand while I supervise. These conditions are made perfectly clear before they start work. If they don't like it, I leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSM_guy Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 ill do ya one better. back when the pathy belonged to my parents, we took it into a sams (or walmart..one of those). yes yes, bad news i know! anyways, so it has the little locking lugs on each set of rims. well the genius sticks the key in the impact wrench...never seats the key to the lock..and proceeds to spin up his wrench about 1/2 speed and shoves it on. of course the key catches the lock...and snaps off the little pattern inside. so he walks into the svc dep and hands us the key and the little chunk of metal and is like "uuuh, it broke" of corse my dad demands to know just how in the hell he managed to break forged steel. so yeah, we cant get the tires off because some pimple faced retard couldent take 2 sec to seat the key before he went to crankin with his impact. then, they refused to pay for it..saying the key was made of inferior aluminum! from now on, i go around and take off all the lug locks myself by hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 They do make torque sockets for impacts that set the right torque on the bolts, but few seem to know how to use or don't bother to use them. It's not the Dayton 500, you don't throw the lig into the impact socket and go, start all lugs by hand then hit them with the impact. I do all my own tire work, that way I know it's done right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I also ask them to tighten the lugs by hand, it's amazing how they don't! A big cause of warped brake rotors is overtorquing lugs, not just heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 That's because I REFUSE to let them touch the lug nuts with an impact wrench while installing. They have two choices:1) Let me install. (I bring my torque wrench with me). 2) Do it by hand while I supervise. yea thats what i say but places around here wont let that and the tire kingdom i spoke about uses torque sticks the proper way and wouldnt you know who she got the tires put on by was sams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maz Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I like it when they put em on with an impact then go around with the torque wrench for good measure. WHen they are way over torqued with the impact gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUELER Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 in mexico they do all the lugnuts carefully by finger as long as you watch them. go into the back room and all you hear is impact gun!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 yea...i used to make those places very nervous cuze i keep a close eye on my truck...the best was when i was getting my truck inspected and the guy went to put oil in it i came running out of the waiting room yelling "what the hell are you doing" he was like uhh putting oil in it i was like the hell you its good and he was like ohh i didnt even check it to make sure...then they proceded to ask me to pull it out of the shop b/c he wasnt very good at driving stick i hate it when i have to go to the shop for things like inspections and tires b/c most of the people are idiots...1 of my friends used to work at an oil change place and he said 1 of the guys put 5 qts in a geo metro and then called him up on his day off asking y it was smoking so bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLApathy Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 at my dads shop, its a Mazda dealer, they all use a torque wrench no matter what, they used to be over torqued with the guns and like GG said, they have torque bar thingys, but each one cost like 80 bucks, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 My GF's car came back from America's Tire Company with all the lugs at about 30 once. No kidding. Warped the front rotors enough to need turning, and all they could say was that their policy is to always use a torque wrench and check all wheels before the car leaves the building. My ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUELER Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 My GF's car came back from America's Tire Company with all the lugs at about 30 once. No kidding. Warped the front rotors enough to need turning, and all they could say was that their policy is to always use a torque wrench and check all wheels before the car leaves the building. My ass. i thought they were supposed to be tighter than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M in KC Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 UNCC, a local tire shop did the same trick to the wife's Max. They ened up making it right in the end. An air impact gun the in the hands of $8.00/hr tire monkey is a dangerous thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 They're supposed to be at 80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie4x4 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Yeah, the tire shops are no better in Australia. Must be that same pimply kid on the rattle gun that over tightened my wheel lock nuts (lug nuts) and buggered the shaped locking key bit. OOOYEAH, I found out when I got a flat tire out in the desert only about 2500km from home and 500km from the nearest town and could not get the wheel lock nut off with the key nut. I ended up using a socket that just fitted over the outside of the lock nut and bashed it on with a hammer so I could remove the lug nut. Stuffed the socket and the lock nut. It was such a nice warm day to be changing a flat only 45C in the shade (that’s about 150F, a bit like summer in Arizona). MMM I was so pleased when I got back to the tire shop. Now I use a different tire shop and I stay and watch everything they do. They must think I am a pain in the ass but I have never had that problem again. Also I carry spare front and rear studs and lug nuts. Isn't it nice how easy it is to find people who do a job properly these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 Pathy Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 :furious: My co-worker just got her car back from the shop that busted two of her bolts off by impact. DUMB ASSES! I wish we could just beat people for being stupid! Depends on some things though. My father-in-law still gives me crap about tightening his hitch bolts too damn tight. It took an impact to get them off and they busted two trying to get them off. Yes, I'm a brute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordsho90 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I always take tires off and bring em in it is a pain in the a$$ and time consuming but at least I AM the one doin the work....My x took her car into the dealer for front axel shaft (warranty work) and them f$$*#*s busted TWO studs off and taped em to the inside of hub cap Ishe or me didnt notice it untill tape finally gave out and it sounded like she picked up some gravel took the hubcap off and was like wtf so from then on did my own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 thats crazy about the tape...they could have at least jb welded them... my moms old car managed to have all but 2 lugnuts cross threaded out of 16 and all of them had to be busted off with a torch and air chisle...i really dont see how these places dont get more law suits i think the best story i've heard is at 1 of my jobs on campus we get stuff from staples and their delivery driver was on I-77 northbound and a lady in a bmw had just left the shop going south bound and her tire fell off a transfer truck behind her hit it it jumped the 8-10 ft tall median wall and the driver put his arm up and knocked it over to the passenger side as it came thru the roof/window and somehow maintained his truck in his lane in rush hour traffic and only scuffed up his arm...i saw pictures and was amazed he wasnt dead it crushed the steering wheel down on his lap and pretty much ripped the top off of the cab of the truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) And it's been said before, but this thread warrants a reminder from the engineering contingency: Once a stud or bolt has been overtorqued by a certain amount and has entered the plastic deformation zone, it has been PERMANENTLY deformed and work hardened. It is PERMANENTLY altered and will not return to it's original condition. It must be replaced if you want to retain original design strength. Edited March 29, 2006 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Sorry for the long post, but... Stupid tricks at tire places? Get a load of this: I had my wife drop off my 93 Pathy for 4 new tires and an alignment (after replacing tie rod ends, UCA and compression rod bushings). Provided the shop (Bridgestone/Firestone tire center) with the Factory Service Manual Alignment Specs. Got the truck back with a story they had given my wife about "not being able to get the alignment perfect because of a badly worn steering gearbox". Truck drove with the steering wheel cocked to the right about 20 degrees, and still pulled like hell to the left. Got 'er into the garage at home to check the work I had done, and to have a look at this supposed steering play. Lug nuts on the tires were WAY OVERTORQUED - 185 lbs (me) on the end of my 22" breaker bar finally got them to move (340 ft*lbs??), damaged threads, etc. Tie rod ends were marked, but no shims installed behind the upper control arm spindles. Visible toe-out on the front wheels. NO perceptible movement at the steering box output arm, less than 20mm play at the steering wheel rim (manual allows 35mm). Ball joints, cross rod, etc, less than 6 months old. Ditto shocks, torsion rods, and rear springs. Took 'er back the next day and raised hell - $80 for an alignment that obviously was only done half-assed, then a ****-and-bull story about the gearbox, plus the damaged lugs. Told them I wanted to see the print from their alignment rack, they didn't have it (surprise, surprise), and that I wanted the wheel studs fixed. They sheepishly said they would see what they could do. Got the truck back that afternoon, with another ****-and-bull story about bent/distorted rims, and only being able to get it within road-pull load limits by screwing with the tires on the rims for 2.5 hrs. Truck still pulls to the left, but not quite as much. No stud repair, as they claim "that's the way it came in". They claim that they didn't have to adjust anything on the alignment, but lo and behold, the shims have magically appeared behind the control arm spindles, and I now have an alignment printout that shows it to be within book limits. No admission of shoddy initial work, no apology, and nothing but a "take it or leave it" attitude. Bridgestone/Firestone tells me there's nothing they can do, as this place is independently owned and operated - I guess they just whore out their name to anyone who'll sell their tires. Bottom line - unless you have a service center or mechanic that you know for a fact you can trust (they are out there), you might as well bend over, lube up, and say ahhhh - 'cause you're gonna get honed. You can count on them giving you a bull@#$t story, particularly if you have a woman drop it off/pick it up - they figure they can get away with just about anything. :furious: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 Pathy Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Bottom line - unless you have a service center or mechanic that you know for a fact you can trust (they are out there), you might as well bend over, lube up, and say ahhhh - 'cause you're gonna get honed. You can count on them giving you a bull@#$t story, particularly if you have a woman drop it off/pick it up - they figure they can get away with just about anything. :bow: :bow: AMEN Brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Les Schwab overtorqued all 8 lugs on one of my buddy's bucket trucks...six broke on the spot and it took about a month for the last two to break off and send his duallys into the ditch beside him on a narrow-ass road in Washington. I was speechless. I have pics somewhere, but I can't find 'em right now. They looked it over and discovered that it had been done wrong. They owned up to it, towed his 15K lb bucket truck back to the shop and fixed both sides. Nice to see that happen for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 That's because I REFUSE to let them touch the lug nuts with an impact wrench while installing. They have two choices:1) Let me install. (I bring my torque wrench with me). 2) Do it by hand while I supervise. These conditions are made perfectly clear before they start work. If they don't like it, I leave. Um, yup, ditto, exactly, absolutely, no compromise ! I won't bother with the horror stories. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pickles Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Les Schwab overtorqued all 8 lugs on one of my buddy's bucket trucks...six broke on the spot and it took about a month for the last two to break off and send his duallys into the ditch beside him on a narrow-ass road in Washington. I was speechless. I have pics somewhere, but I can't find 'em right now. They looked it over and discovered that it had been done wrong. They owned up to it, towed his 15K lb bucket truck back to the shop and fixed both sides. Nice to see that happen for a change. That IS amazing. A Les Schwab shop that owned up. The Les Schwab's in the general area of southern Puget Sound area of Western WA are a bunch of thieving, lying, good for nothing bastards in my book. They've screwed me as well as others in my family. Hopefully your buddy is OK though. I agree on the know-and-trust aspect of the people that work on your vehicles. If they treat you well, and you treat them well, go back. Trust is hard to gain/earn in the auto biz, and shouldn't be dismissed or assumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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