02silverpathy Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 So over the last week I gathered the things necessary to make this swap as I had read Mr Jim did this and a couple others here and there... -->Ford 3.8L V6 electric fan --->Hayden fan control (the variable one with the 40/50 amp relay) ----> 12 gauge wire, butt connectors, and fuse holder ----->weather stripping for around fan ------->transmission cooler mount kit --------> patience I accomplished the swap in about 3.5 Hours, I added a whole other switch for the fans high side running the thermostat to the low side. I used 2 30 amp Bosch relays to run the high side with a lighted switch, and 12 gauge wire to each of the fans hot/high side. I grounded the fans ground right back to the battery via 8 gauge ground cable. The AC remote turn on was wired across the truck from the fuse box to the main relay box. Immediately I notice that the truck is much much peppier (peppy'r?), this is how i wanted the truck to be from the start without the CAI and loss of propeller fan. Anyway, I have yet to actually use the high side of the fan since the low side has cooled the truck with ease. I set it on a fairly low degree setting so it does run a lot, in fact, the truck has never got above the midway of the temp gauge (never did). I ran the ignition wire from the thermostat (remote turn on/yellow) right to the power source making the fan run until the temp is acceptable even when the truck is off. So far this has not caused any issues....then again i do have a deep cycle Dekka This mod did make a small mess (anit-freeze) and caused a little swearing removing the old fan and shroud, but was well worth the effort...i will post and MPG increase if they occur; for now low end pick up is awesome so the mileage is justified!!! I must admit that i am concerned about the fans longevity, if this fan dies or consumes its own wiring than i now have no fan cooling the engine and being that it is not Nissan OEM i must question its durability. The fan control was cheapest by $26 at Autozone ($36) compared to Advanced Auto ($62) :eek: I can get the part # if anyone is interested!! -bounce- Hooray for the newly invigorated 3.3 -bounce- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vengeful Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 How much did it cost you total? What's the link to Mr. Jim's write-up? Also, were there any differences between your setup and his, care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Yeah, I like mine, too. Two things you might want to consider, though: - If you wire the fan to a constant hot, it could turn on in a hot parking lot and kill your battery. Your old clutch fan was only pulling air when your engine was running anyway, so shutting the electric one off with the ignition wouldn't be any different. - You might want to hook a diode between the pos. and neg. of the fan like this. A reverse current blocking diode (or freewheeling diode) is a good idea on any motor control relay. Once power is removed from a DC motor it becomes a DC generator and the reverse voltage spike can shorten the life of the relay. The diode will bleed this spike to ground. The 1N5408 diode can be found at any electronics store for just a few dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 I just picked up a big E-fan from a Mercedes Diesel at the Yard. It's going to go in the 88 eventually (still need the thermostat kit). I already went electric on my 93 and I love it, on the highway there's enough air flow that the fan never even kicks on. I wired the thermostat control to run it even when the truck is shut off, like when I stop and park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted August 21, 2005 Author Share Posted August 21, 2005 So far just running the "low" side of the fan (it is 2-speed) only cost me $76 for everything. Hayden fan control with relay---$36 3.8L Taurus Electric Fan---------$25 Roll of 12 gauge wire from Wally-world---$17 The fan does run in the parking lot at work, I like the idea of it cooling the truck down after it is off.....I can hear my alty. working to recharge me when i start the truck but i think that is a cheap trade for having it just roast under its own heat. The AC is tons cooler...here in my area we spiked back up to a 100+ heat index today and i must say that is the coldest that my AC has ever felt!!! I think that i had read where MR. Jim had done this mod but no official write up and someone else chimed in to Google "3.8L electric fan"...I did find the web site that JJ BIG SHOE had linked, in fact that is exactly the site that i used... JJ i have really though about that Diode, i just finished the job to get some play time with it and seriously dred the local Radio shack...the fact that they make commission makes them dummies about anything small that won't pay them??!! Did you put that diode in and where did you find it (or how did you find it)??? Vengeful, this mod is even hotter than swapping the coolant temp sensor...my truck has really felt awesome without that d**n fan killing the horseys!!! :cool2: If you want I'll get a blow by blow and maybe we should ask to get this pinned...this is almost a necessary swap..IMHO. :contract: tonight i am going to run the high side of the fan to a separate switch and 2 30 amp relays just so i can kick it on when i want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 I have done this conversion to my '83 Yota 4x4. And I found that "most of the time" I had no issues with starting on hot day's when it was wired directly to the battery. But after being unable to start the truck on two occasions (each time I was making lots of short trips), I decided to keep an extra battery in the back along with jumper cables. Soon after, I wired it to a switched power source. After having to get a jump those two times, then having to break out the battery and cable a time or two after, it made me decide that it was just not worth it. Just my experience, but be warned that it could happen. If it don't, great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Did you put that diode in and where did you find it (or how did you find it)??? Sorry, but you'll prolly have to hit Radio Shack to get the diode. I found it in the same section that has the switches and relays and such. BTW, you're not really cooling the motor down by leaving the fan on when you shut the ignition off -the coolant isn't flowing. You're just cooling what's in the radiator and maybe cycling a little hot air from under the hood. If you have some time, try this: Run it until the fan comes on, then kill the ignition and see how long it takes to cool to a certain point. Then do it again but pull the fan fuse after you shut the truck off and see if there's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 The fan does run in the parking lot at work, I like the idea of it cooling the truck down after it is off Really all it is doing is cooling down the radiator and since there is no coolant flow, the fan continues when there is no point (how long depends on where the sensor is located). A cool radiator is good, but that only lasts 1-2 minutes when the engine is warm. I have looked into/considered the electric fan option, but I would set it up with 3 settings... Off, sensor triggered, and on regardless. When I do this, the off setting would be used when I park. Just my .02 B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Quick Question??? What about compatibility with like a e-fan from a newer model Pathy/Exterra/Frontier? Or are they all clutched fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Does that 3.8L fan shroud cover the entire Pathfinder radiator, or just a portion of it? Have you tried running at very low speeds, but high loads and high engine RPM? (such as 4LO, 1st gear, 20° slope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Does that 3.8L fan shroud cover the entire Pathfinder radiator, or just a portion of it? Have you tried running at very low speeds, but high loads and high engine RPM? (such as 4LO, 1st gear, 20° slope) The shroud covers about 85%-90% of the radiator, but it pulls a whole lot of air on the high speed so it isn't really an issue. I've done a little trail riding with it, but no crawling although I've seen a few crawler buggies on the web that are using them. I've got it wired so it comes on with the A/C and to an off switch for water crossings. No problems even in stop & go traffic here in Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 (edited) Agreed, the fan shroud covers about 80-90% of the radiator and even on low speed can pull an extreme amount of air through the radiator, condenser, and my tranny cooler. I did wire up the "high" side of the fan to a switch using a pair of 30 amp bosch relays...it really really does move some air. I can't see any reason for using the high side in everyday life, this is why I opt'd for the separate switch. JJ i did go get diodes that are very close to the voltage that they recommend, mine are 1000v at 2.5amps...the one they used was 1000v at 3.0amps...hopefully this all works out. I did run a diode from gnd to low and gnd to each of the high so all relays should be safe...uh-huh??? after running the high side while the low side is running, i notice that the two running together slow to an average speed, not just the high or low speed so that is a draw back, but on a good note none of my wires (or relays) got hot. I used 12 gauge for all power to the fan and 10 gauge running right to the battery for a gnd. If i were just a little smarter i would sit down and figure out how to turn off the thermostat relay when i flip my high side switch on (i think that is called a floating ground) but that just makes my head hurt right now! I did kick the fan thermostat up a notch to make it shut off sooner after the truck is off...I must admit that i spent somuch time making wires pretty and such that don't feel like tying (tieing) it into an ign wire now!!! Lol Edited August 25, 2005 by 98silverpathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vengeful Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 $25? Hot damn! The JY I went to wanted $200 for the dual e-fan setup from a 97 Taurus... :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 1997 is 1 year too new (i think) 88-96 the older body style (spaceship looking) with that funny light up grill on the sable. the licoln mark5 or 8 had the 3.8l HO engine also that you could score one from too....but that 97 is the more current style maybe thats why the wanted so much...if you want one i know that there are a TON here in sheep country!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Well, I wasn't going to admit this for fear of revealing just how disturbed I tend to be, but oh well.. It gets soooo bloody hot here, I want to have mine set up to evacuate the under hood heat after shut down. Some cars have this feature, and I think it is a very good idea to avoid extreme heat soaking. I'm going to wire mine in as follows: - High speed by manual switch only, just as 98 SP did. The dual 30 amp relay sounds about right. - Low speed normally activated by thermostat only when key is on. - I'm also going to add a timer to the low speed to run when key is off. I think I've got a circuit (555 timer, a few passive components, and a transistor switch) figured out where the fan will continue to run a set amount of time after I push a button. Pretty simple idea - if the engine compartment is really hot at shut down, I just punch a momentary contact switch before I get out that will start the timer that provides a secondary input to trip the fan relay until it times out and shuts down again. On a side note: I have a HUGE supply of wire I picked up surplus - from 10 to 24 AWG wire - really premium stuff suitable for standard under hood use. Literally dozens of spools, many colors, some with thousands of feet. If anyone wants just a few feet and can't justify buying a whole spool, send me a buck for shipping and I'll send you what you need. PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 after running the high side while the low side is running, i notice that the two running together slow to an average speed, not just the high or low speed so that is a draw back, but on a good note on of my wires (or relays) got hot. I used 12 gauge for all power to the fan and 10 gauge reunning right to the battery for a gnd.If i were just a little smarter i would sit down and figure out how to turn off the thermostat relay when i flip my high side switch on (i think that is called a floating ground) but that just makes my head hurt right now! One way to do this is to add a one more Bosch style automotive relay to the circuit. This is switching a low level signal so a standard relay of 2 amps or more is all you need. Did you notice that these relays normally have 5 pins, and you use only 4? This allows you to use them as "normally open, activated closed", - OR - "normally closed, activated open". It is this latter funtionality we'll use in this application. Wire it so it interrupts the low speed fan TRIGGER signal (not the 12 AWG power line) when you activate it via the high speed switch. In other words, it is wired in parallel to your high speed fan relays, but is switching the SIGNAL to the low speed relay OFF when activated. Put it in the SIGNAL lead right before the low speed fan relay using the "normally closed" contacts. So when this relay is NOT activated, the signal flows through exactly as it does now to activate the low speed fan relay. When you flip on the manual high speed switch, this relay activates and opens (interrupts) the signal going to the low speed fan relay so it switches off. That make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Sure. I'm actually going to use a relayed Ford starter solenoid to run the high speed wire for my fan with 8 or 10 gauge wire, cause that thing pops 30 amp fuses after about 3 minutes of run-time and the old 12 gauge wiring damn near melted into the fan shroud last time I messed with it. D'oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 MWS, That does make sense and i am using 5 pin relays, however in the past I have had a couple that act like "2 pronged" -- 4 pin relays...is there a way to know if it is dual function like you mention (ie in the jargon on the side of the relay??) Secondly, 88 is saying that he nearly melted his 12 gauge...that is a real and scary notion...88 did you run the fan motors gnd back to your battery set up---God knows you go the juice to push the fan?! I currently have a 4 gauge supply that is fused (way too high) and hits a dist block down to dual 12 gauge that runs to the fan through my 2 relays to the 2 fan high side wire....again the 10 gauge gnd goes about 8" back to the battery gnd...do you think IYO that i am at risk for the same melt down?? I did do the diode thing for the fan relays, in fact one for each power wire: 1 low, 2 high. Lastly, can i buy or build that sort of "turbo timer" ( i will call it) for your fan and how so...this is exactly what i was looking for!!! I would continue to run the fan on constant current (key off) but have it on a set time limit via this turbo timer like set up. I re-adjusted my fan a little and it now only runs a little after the truck is off, but due to heat rising will kick back on on occassion ( that i have hung around the truck that long...watch those fingures!!! LOL). ps MWS...wouldn't call it disturbed at all...but if it is, than i am too and da*n proud of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Yeah, I'm secretly rather proud as well... On the relay, there should be a diagram of the circuit with the 5 terminals id'd. The "single throw" relays I've had did not have a number for the circuit on the diagram. The relay contactors and arm will be pointing at the normally closed circuit in that diagram. When the coil is activate, it flops over to the other contact. Of course, the most accurate way to verify it is working properly is to just apply an ohmeter across the terminals as you actuate it. As a couple general rules of thumb: - If the wire is getting too hot but it doesn't melt the insulation, you will probably be in the safe zone by going up 2 AWG sizes (like from 12 to 10). And definitely safe if you go up 4. - If only the wire is getting hot, that indicates that specific wire is the only restriction in the circuit and the rest of the circuit is OK. Heat is developed at the most restrictive point of the circuit. In Aaron's case, it sounds like his ground path is fine. If you're not in a hurry, I will just make two timers and send you one when I'm done. Probably cost about $5 with all parts and a box. I'll use a potentiometer so the timing will be adjustable. I'd like to proof it out before sending it, and I may not be able to get to it for a month or two as I still have to install the fan. And finish 53.2 other projects... I also have a limited amount of 8 ga wire, too, but red only. How big can you fit in your distribution block? Aaron - PM me your address if you want some 10 or 8 ga to re-do yours. With as much as you've helped me with advice and shop manual pages, I'll gladly pay shipping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I'll trade. Want something I can make? ...I've been needing to make some idler arm braces for a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I'll trade. Want something I can make? ...I've been needing to make some idler arm braces for a while... Heck ya! I have been planning to weld up a brace per your photos, but hey, it's still hot and don't want to be out welding right now! I just sent you a PM with a list of all the wire I have. Just let me know what you want. I'll throw in a fan timer if you want it, some heatshrink, some expando tube, and what else you want? Any chance at all you could get me a brace by next Thursday? We have a trip through the High Rock Canyon (west of Black Rock Desert in NV) and having a brace would be added mental security. Most things are well up to snuff, but the steering is still bone stock. It would be so embarrasing to break down, especially since I will be with a Cherokee! No paint or finish shaping/grinding needed - I could pull it off, clean it up, and paint it later. Pure function is all I need... Heck, don't even need to knock the slag off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solid snake Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 question for 98silverpathy, how about a write up on how you did the swap? Or did you just went to http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/02...fan/index.shtml and followed the instructions there? This is really sweet and I want to do this swap :cool2: It's freakin hot here in Yuma Arizona and my temp is always on the half way mark in the summer with the a/c on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 Solid Snake, I did just follow their instructions for the install. I located my fan control on one of the bolts that holds the under-hood fuse box to the truck, and used a large fuse/distribution block to provide power. I ran the AC turn on wire to the relay box across the truck on the other strut tower mount. For the fan itself it has three mounting holes for the oil cooler mount kit to, but after mounting the fan i felt that it was too loose on the back of the radiator and was pulling some fins further apart so i drilled a small hole in the last corner of the fan shroud and attached it there also and now it is perfectly tight. ps....if you can get the fan or a fan from the salvage yard definately get the whole harness to the fan. I am looking at this harness for the people that will service my timing belt...they will be able to undo the harness and pull the wiring away instead of having to cut the wires or even hang the fan over one side of the truck!! On this same topic, i did not fully install that thermometer in the radiator with the little kit that it cam with it is just "pressure fit" for now again so the shop can just set it aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 (edited) bump.... has anyone done this since this was first posted?? Did anyone like it/dislike it?? We do need a little follow up here as this is a hot swap and will def gain back some horseys and a bit more fuel. Edited September 4, 2005 by 98silverpathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Not yet, but will be doing it as soon as the cash flow allows it.... Possibly not until next spring though with everything else I have to do... In fact, I will even take pictures as I go since we finally joined the digital age and bought a digital camera. I will be doing it the total "top shelf" way as that is the way I like to do things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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