CDN_S4 build thread

[clkindred]

I looked back through this thread and you mentioned a visible wheel wobble, it still wobbles? I don't want to patronize you, but have you checked the basics like wheel bearings, or perhaps you got a bent wheel. Can you swap wheels with one from the rear and see if it still wobbles?

[Kingman]

Yeah no sheit... I've got a shimmy/ steering wheel wobble from 40+ to freeway speeds but goes away around 70, generally worse when cornering. It's also intermittent-ish. 3" lift and wheel adapters. My first plan of attack is to install manual hubs so the CVs aren't constantly spinning at an obscene angle. My alignment is spot on and I've rotated the tires. There's nothing loose whatsoever and the adapters are perfectly flat and torqued. It's starting to drive me nutty.

 

I have a hard time believing alignment will cause a shimmy as I've never experienced it. But stranger things have happened...

Edited June 26, 2015 by Kingman

[CDN_S4]

I looked back through this thread and you mentioned a visible wheel wobble, it still wobbles? I don't want to patronize you, but have you checked the basics like wheel bearings, or perhaps you got a bent wheel. Can you swap wheels with one from the rear and see if it still wobbles?

The truck is still the shop, this is just based on what the mechanic tells me.

The bearings have been checked, they are repacked and GTG. My rims are balanced and I don't see any bends. Can't imagine this to be the case. Never hit anything hard and I owned them since new. They are also 15" wrapped in 33's so not too easy to bend. I have manual locking hubs so the CVs and driveshaft won't spin but the shaking is still there as that's how I drive most of the time.

Like I said, mech says my wheels are super negative cambered like a V and therefore constantly fight the road. This seems to make sense when I take a sharper turn the wheels seem to align and the wobble goes away.

I can't keep driving like this and can't keep throwing money at this problem. Pretty upset right now. I'm wondering if it's possible to weld on an extension to the strut bracket that attaches to the knuckle? But then all the other parts are probably not long enough.

[patqx4]

I also had bad camber and kept tearing CV boots with a 1" top spacer, so I decided to remove them. I just don't trust the strength of camber bolts either and won't use them again. Now I won't be using any more spacers until I get a sfd.

 

On the spinning bolts issue, I know first hand what a royal pain this is. When replacing my lower control arms the rearmost weld nuts inside the subframe broke loose and spun. The first time I cut the bolt off then cut a small access hole to remove the old nut and tighten on a new one. Use 2 nuts on the new bolt to ensure it stays tight. Weld the hole shut when finished. The second time around there was a very small opening which I snuck a small pair of pliers into and was just enough to tighten it with an impact from below.

 

I would say cutting an access hole is your best bet to remedy the problem. No ideas about your wheel shimmy unfortunately.

 

Good luck

[jyeager]

I'm trying to reason out your shimmy.

 

The camber problem needs to be addressed, but really, how can camber cause the shimmy? It will eat up the edges of your tread, of course.

Have your tires become feathered/cupped? Such that the tire tread itself is bouncing your tires?

 

As far as I can figure, only toe should be able to cause a shimmy.

But here's a question for you....what is the condition of your inner and outer steering links? And the steering rack bushings?

If those are sloppy or worn, your tires can oscillate between turning left and turning right at a very high frequency, creating your shimmy.

Also, it would tend to go away while turning due to the forces.

 

 

[TowndawgR50]

Not sure since I haven't torn down my pathfinder yet but maybe our driveshafts are balanced and during the course of wheeling/driving the balancing weights have come off. I had the balance weights come off a driveshaft on my old GMC. Caused vibration at certain speeds.

[patqx4]

I don't think this is an issue with front drivetrain, seeing as he said it occurs even with the hubs disengaged...

[xxLOUDOGxx]

If your wheels are not hub centric, then that's your problem. The hub is what centers your wheel. it is possible to perfectly center your wheel with the lug nuts. but from experience. hub centric or you get a shimmy! I've been working at dealerships for 20yrs. do you still have your stock wheels? if so put them on and drive it

[patqx4]

You can also buy hub centric rings, that will allow you to keep your wheels! I hope that's all it is!

[CDN_S4]

All good suggestions. Thanks. I don't have the stock wheels anymore. From other cars too it's always been the hub centric issue. But finding offset aftermarket rims that are Hc is not easy.

I just picked it up and the shaking is less bad now that he dialed it in as close as possible. But he said my tires are still toed in and it is visible with the naked eye. This would explain the wobble when looking at the tire as in my video. He said the only way is to get that SFD installed. I'll have to find someone that can do this for me as I don't have the tools or skills to start cutting and welding the frame.

[ferrariowner123]

Have you thought about lengthening the lover control arm? I know drifters do that to help correct something when they lower the cars, maybe it's something to look into when lifting? The only thing I forsee being an issue is the driveshaft.

 

Just a thought. But I find it weird is that you and only one other person has had positive camber issues atleast from what I can remember , and he was running 33's on the AC lift. He later found out he had frame issue from a botched repair. Maybe taking it to a body shop that throw it on a jig that has factory points logged to where the frame should be to see if, maybe your rig has some past demons (bad accident with botched repair) still haunting you. Don't know what that would cost or where to even start but I know it's out there.

 

Again, just thinking out loud. But don't give up, your rig is such a inspiration and would hate to see you leave over something like this!

 

-Kyle

[hawairish]

But isn't this shimmy relatively new? Did it start before or after your recent trip? Sorry if I missed it in a previous post.

 

I agree with the mechanic's assessment to get the SFD on (see below). I personally think it's just because of the angle of your tie rods. If your tires are still visibly toed, your TREs must be at/near max length (and consequently a higher angle).

 

Here's how I think about it...what's more stable in terms of resisting lateral flex on the steering system?

(In very crude form, pretend the "/", "\", and "—" represent the TREs...)

1: [wheel] / [steering rack] \ [wheel]

2: [wheel] — [steering rack] — [wheel]

 

The more level the TREs, the better resistance, right? Not saying the TREs are bent/bending, but at an angle, there's just less ability for it to resist left-right motion. SFD is the answer.

 

I had a really bad shimmy when I got my truck. Got it aligned, and got the tires rebalanced...twice, actually. Rotated tires. No matter what I did, always happened at the same speed range. Kept thinking it was the Duratracs, and just learned to live with it and avoid the freeway. Put the SFD on, no shimmy...and that was without an alignment.

 

Obviously, you're in a dilemma to get that SFD on. Patqx4's suggestion is exactly how I'd approach it, and I don't think you'd need anything special except someone to maybe tack in a backing plate with a nut welded on, and to weld a patch over the access hole when done. You could use a drill-attached hole-saw bit to get easy access. And this could all be done separately from the SFD install. Doubt it'd take maybe more than a couple hours.

 

I didn't see an answer to which subframe bolts you're having problems with. Is it the rears?

 

 

[CDN_S4]

You can also buy hub centric rings, that will allow you to keep your wheels! I hope that's all it is![/quote

 

Yeah I've always bought them for my cars. But those rims are so different that you can actually fit them inside the hubs. Didn't actually know they made them for these type wheels. Will be buying some.

Also will need that SFD. If that doesn't fix it, I'm at my wits end.

Truck has clean title, was old man owned and my off-road has been very timid and mostly consisted of logging routes.

[CDN_S4]

The mechanic tried the best looking bolt in the front. And it snapped off inside.

My fab guy is wondering if the SFD blocks can be welded on instead of bolted on?! Any thoughts?

[hawairish]

Yeah, they can be welded. Short of pulling the engine (and probably not even necessary then), there's no compelling reason to pull the subframe down...except for an SFD!

 

So, sounds like this hardware dilemma you're in might ripple elsewhere. Probably best that I give you more heads-up so you can assess the big picture. That said, let's talk hardware...

 

I just wrote this up: http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/40356-pre-installation-check-up-before-getting-an-sfd/

 

Long story short: I wouldn't worry about the front subframe bolts. That has an easy workaround. If the rear bolts spin, you might be in trouble. But, I thought of something that might be better than what Patqx4 and I noted previously that doesn't require major invasive surgery to the unibody.

[CDN_S4]

And the solution you thought of world be....?

I'm dropping it off tomorrow for attempt #3 to get this damn thing installed.

[hawairish]

Sorry, was still waiting for confirmation where the problem was, seeing if the pre-installation post sparked any ideas for you.

 

But, supposing it is the rear bolts that are spinning, the option previously discussed was to gain access to the area inside the unibody by cutting/boring a hole and slipping a nut or plate (or both) inside. This approach is a bit invasive, and you don't really know how the inner surface space will look (it might not be flat enough for a plate).

 

What you might be better off doing is welding in new "pads" on the unibody where the subframe meets it. Something tells me that if one is bolt/hole is bad, they're all bad. To fix, you'd basically be creating the simplest and smallest SFD in the world, using only flat steel.

 

Get some flat steel that's 2" to 2.5" wide x .120" thick. Cut two 6"L pieces and drill two 5/8" holes 100mm apart. Weld two fine-pitched nuts behind the holes. Drill some other smaller holes (or one big hole) near center that will allow for additional welding surface (interior support for the plate). On the unibody, use a hole saw bit (maybe 1" dia...whatever is needed to clear the nuts) to bore out the OE threaded inserts. Put the plate up to the unibody, nuts recessed into the unibody, and weld it in place. Boom: new rear subframe pads. With this approach, you won't need to cut any other access holes, nor patch them up (this plate does that), and you replace both threaded holes in one shot.

 

You'll still need to shim all the other spacers, but that's super easy. Just cut more flat steel to the length of the spacers, weld them directly to the KrF subframe spacers, and drill some new holes. You'll end up with a 4.120" SFD. The KrF spacers are different sizes of tube if the pictures I've seen are still accurate, but you should be fine using the same 2"-2.5"W flat steel. I wouldn't go more than .120" thick (and you probably won't need to) because the steering link might not allow for much more length beyond that (however, this can probably be overcome by add'l rotation of the steering rack).

 

To attack this, you'd obviously need the subframe completely off...which is unfortunately a lot of work, of which the most difficult part will likely be hoisting everything back into place. You'll probably need everything off no matter how you decide to attack this, though.

 

Let me know if you need a sketch to illustrate things.

 

HTH!

Edited July 1, 2015 by hawairish

[TowndawgR50]

Love the community efforts involved in this. Your truck is bad ass. Worth the effort of this solution. I think it's the most solid route for strength, durability and longevity. don't give up!

[hawairish]

Yes, don't give up! Just think...after this, you've crossed all the major hurdles, and short of taller custom SFD, you're at the max for lift (until the SAS fairy starts whispering in your ear...).

 

One small modification to my last suggestion...instead of welding pieces to the spacers, you might be better off welding everything to the unibody. That way, if for any reason the SFD needs to come off, the spacers are unaltered and the subframe can be re-installed evenly (and you won't have to do any future work in this regard). And if you find that one side of the rear threads is ok, then you could just use a regular plate as a shim (no nuts welded on, no drilling out the threaded inserts). But, seems more reasonable to assume all four threaded inserts need replacing at this point.

[hawairish]

Crude sketch of the replacement pads. Fine-pitch G8/C10.9 nuts are welded to the plates. The holes in the middle are for additional weld surfaces when mated to the unibody; the smaller holes would be easier to drill and fill, acting more like spot welds. You'd probably want 2"W steel now that I think about it...it'll ensure there's enough space to weld on the long edges.

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by hawairish

[CDN_S4]

You're the man Hawairish! I've just dropped it off at a place called Hilltop Off-road. After talking with him for over an hour I'm fairly certain he is the right guy for this job. At least he seems confident in his abilities. Hopefully all goes well and I'll have it back on Saturday. Also he said he could recess my bumper more and have less of an overbite. If all goes according to plan, I'll be a happy camper on Saturday.

[hawairish]

No sweat man! Hope the surgery goes well...def keep us posted.

[TowndawgR50]

Good to hear. Probably a better place to drop it off than the standard mechanics shop. Performance places are used to dealing with fab related issues and come up with cost-effective, creative solutions. I know you're Canadian but it would be just in time for the three day weekend here!!!

 

Nice CAD drawing, hawairish. Solidworks?

[hawairish]

Ha, funny...I was thinking, "man, and those guys are even going to work Friday?! That's an awesome shop!" But right, US holiday! (Everyone who doesn't hate us can still celebrate, right? )

 

Towndawg, I use SketchUp. It's great...and free. Originally created by Google, but eventually sold off (still free; check out the Maker Edition). Very simple interface and tools, captures all the essentials I need. I used some heavier CAD programs back in college, but this is perfect for my use now (especially since beer erased college). Aside from mocking up spacer shapes and such, I primarily use it to print 1:1 templates for punch marks or scoring shapes/lines on materials. Just used it over the weekend for the SFD motor mounts and skid plate spacers...easiest way to make repetitive punch marks. Also used it the other week to make oval templates for cutting the rear hatch plastic to install recessed LED lights (I need to write up this project).

[TowndawgR50]

Really? I took a few solidworks and MasterCAM courses years back and I find sketchup a little funky. Not really that intuitive for me. Although i could probably just youtube a few tutorials. I have a older version of Sketchup but kinda left it alone after fiddling around for a bit.