WD21 alignment

[sewebster]

I guess I should have gone to the dealer, but I've having trouble getting my truck aligned at the shop. After I pick it up it initially seems ok, but then gets worse again after driving a bit (pulls slightly to the left). I remember reading on the board somewhere about there being difficulty in getting the alignment done properly on these vehicles.

 

I only have a 1" suspension lift... is the problem that they pick up the truck and the t-bars don't settle when they make the adjustments? Do you have to lift a vehicle to do an alignment? Looks like some of the machines I see online just have units you strap to the wheels. I guess maybe they don't want to wriggle around on the ground...

[MY1PATH]

you need to cycle the suspension every time you set it down. Most shops will just pounce on the bumper 6 or 7 times. I prefer to take it arround the block, slamming on the brakes a few times and jerking the wheel left and right to cycle it. I prefer this method because the wheels are turning so there is less resistance to the sance getting wider as it sits back into its resting point.

 

Once you get your caster and camber give it a real good settle and then do your center and tow without lifting it.

[TERRANONZjnr]

^agreed! i did alignments for a few years and sometimes had to do the alignment a couple of times on vehicles to get them perfect. some shops will make their employees lift the vehicle onto the hoist swivel plates (unsettling the susp), and a really good cycle would help. The t bar idea is about right, but a problem could also lie with the technician not doing it right.

tyre wear comes into it as well, a bit of outside shoulder wear on the left front or the right inner could do it too. have you swapped them front to rear?

if you can post up the alignment printout we can take a look assuming you got given one?

[XSrcing]

There are a lot of factors that can cause a pull. Everything from tweaked suspension pieces, over worn tires, slipped belts in the tires, to improper procedures.

 

The "cycling" of the suspension is a little drastic. I've done hundreds upon hundreds of them and have never had to drive the car as described to get it to settle. A few well weighted jounces on slip plates will settle the suspension properly, if the slip plates are maintained

 

Plus, most alignment machines will not allow you to drive the car while aligning it because you have sensors mounted to the wheels, which are then calibrated to the wheel run-out.

[sewebster]

Thanks guys. I don't have the printout here with me, but I can post it later.

 

So I guess I'll just go back and tell them what happened (started out fine, got worse) and ask them to do it again? Is it reasonable to keep going back till they get it right? Or at what point should I assume it is some other problem? I would assume they could identify the other problem if that was the case. My tires are brand new so hopefully not worn/broken belts. I replaced the tie rod ends to remove steering play, wheel bearings have no play and while pulling on the wheel to check for bearing play I don't get any movement, so am hoping the ball joints are good, but who knows...

[krmiller07]

I know it may sound silly, but have you checked the Tire Pressures ? Most alignment shops don't do this before or after an alignment.

 

km@frozenrotors.com

[sewebster]

I know it may sound silly, but have you checked the Tire Pressures ? Most alignment shops don't do this before or after an alignment.

 

km@frozenrotors.com

 

Yep, did this just the other day, not that checking again is a bad idea. I have them set to 32 psi cold, and haven't done the chalk test yet, but hopefully that wouldn't cause a pull to the left if they are all inflated the same.

[MY1PATH]

The "cycling" of the suspension is a little drastic. ...

...A few well weighted jounces on slip plates...

 

I don't slip plates and I was assuming a driveway type alignment...

But yes, if on a rack and you have slip plates driving it will not be necessary.

[adamzan]

Took the shop I took mine to took near 4 hours, but they got it nearly exact.

 

 

It drives perfect now.

Edited December 15, 2010 by adamzan

[sewebster]

I went back and they drove it around and told me that the alignment was fine, but that my aggressive tires just like to wander everywhere. Personally I think it definately goes left more than anything else. I mean, of course if the road is sloped a lot it could sometimes drift the other way. I have 31x10.5R15 Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs. They are fairly agressive, but an AT tire, not some dedicated swamper or something... Here is the sheet I got last time from the machine...

 

[adamzan]

Is your rear higher than stock? Mine pulls left too I was told it's because I haven't dropped the panhard yet. It shifts the axle right.

[sewebster]

Is your rear higher than stock? Mine pulls left too I was told it's because I haven't dropped the panhard yet. It shifts the axle right.

 

Yeah, about 1" higher. So maybe that is it. It's not really a big pull at all, I just want to make sure that if I put up with it, I understand the reason...

[TERRANONZjnr]

I went back and they drove it around and told me that the alignment was fine, but that my aggressive tires just like to wander everywhere. Personally I think it definately goes left more than anything else. I mean, of course if the road is sloped a lot it could sometimes drift the other way. I have 31x10.5R15 Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs. They are fairly agressive, but an AT tire, not some dedicated swamper or something... Here is the sheet I got last time from the machine...

 

that left front castor is off spec sitting behind the right front. that can cause left drift. did they even play with your shims at all!???

[adamzan]

Looks like they didn't' touch them as the camber is the same as well. They probably just set the toe.

[MY1PATH]

ya um Positive caster is what makes the wheels want to return to straight after a turn and not get pulled as much by the road. Your left wheel is still in the negetive causing the road to pull it straight wich then points your right further inward. I'd let it slide if the caster was out of spec on the positive side But never settle for ZERO or Negative caster. The rest looks good.

AT tires should not make a differance how it drives. My MT's point straight and when everything is dialed in it keeps a line like its on rails.

Edited December 16, 2010 by MY1PATH

[sewebster]

They adjusted the camber on the previous attempt. So you adjust caster with the same set of shims? Seems odd that they would tell me the alignment is perfect and then hand me a sheet that disagrees. Ugh. Usually this shop is good too. Maybe I should just suck up the hundred bucks as a loss and go somewhere else (eg. dealer) and try again. I don't really want to waste my cash, but I'm wasting a lot of time dealing with these guys now. Of course it really doesn't pull that much, so maybe I should just drive it. How bad is having your caster off? Will I wear out my (new) tires fast?

[Alkorahil]

My1Path noticed the same thing I did, the castor is off. Many shops when they do an alignment wont even mess with this.

In short, If the castor is far off it will 'push' or 'pull' the wheel. This can lead to excess wear on the outer or inner of the tire.

 

If you have worn bushings on the front suspension it will also cause the castor to be off.

 

You may want to read more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle

Edited December 16, 2010 by Alkorahil

[MY1PATH]

Camber is shims on both bolts.

Caster is one bolt. Or if the camber is correct its moving a shim one bolt to another.

In your case I would remove ~.060" from the left rear bolt. This will bring your left camber closer to your right and correct your caster at the same time.

 

EDIT: I just checked that guess with the aligmnet shim chart (94FSM FA-12)

You caster should wind up near ~0.78 positive. and your camber will go down to about ~0.86 positive.

Edited December 16, 2010 by MY1PATH

[TERRANONZjnr]

Looks like they didn't' touch them as the camber is the same as well. They probably just set the toe.

yup, it lools like they did the classic 'toe and go!' adjusting anything will affect the rest of the specs. obviously this alignment was out of their league, or the tech just couldnt be bothered.

i got mine aligned a couple of days after lifting my truck, and told the tech before he started, that he'd have to do some shim workand it drives fine now. (helps that i sorta taught him)

if it were me, i'd be taking it back (with the sheet) and pointing out that he hasnt adjusted the castor at all, and dont let him say that it cant be done. shims are there for a reason! even half a degree would make a difference. if he cant do it, or wants to re-charge you, take it to someone who actually knows how to do it!

[sewebster]

Thanks guys. I'm going away for the holidays, but when I get back I think I might pull/adjust the shims as suggested by MY1PATH. Hopefully that will solve my problems... then I'll head back and get them to re-measure to make sure it's all in spec.

[TERRANONZjnr]

Thanks guys. I'm going away for the holidays, but when I get back I think I might pull/adjust the shims as suggested by MY1PATH. Hopefully that will solve my problems... then I'll head back and get them to re-measure to make sure it's all in spec.

sounds good. hope it all goes ok

[GrimGreg]

Hell, the machine even puts the things that are off in bright red. What kind of idiot read that print out and said the alignment is fine?

 

Of course I know a lot of younger techs who have no idea how to align anything without cam bolts .

[adamzan]

Hell, the machine even puts the things that are off in bright red. What kind of idiot read that print out and said the alignment is fine?

 

Of course I know a lot of younger techs who have no idea how to align anything without cam bolts .

X2 When they did mine it was always an older guy working on it, presumably because he was the only one who knew how to do it

[PATHRIDER]

need to get my alignment done and will be watching this thread

[TERRANONZjnr]

i had another look at mine today, and my camber is positve both sides! i think i need to remove my washers and replace them with thinner ones. you can even see the wheels cambering out at the top when you look towards the front of the truck!