Replacing the Timing Belt & Adding an AT Cooler

[Precise1]

What I mean is I know that some places have cheaper built TB; I just didn't want to get one that in 45-50,000mi the sap sucker breaks. I think that I will just get the one Doc is using because of the lines already on the belt to help you line it up correctly.

 

*sigh*

 

That link is for a Nissan dealer. OEM parts... It has the lines on it... $34 or something.

Nissan parts, cheap price, knowledgable contact. It doesn't get better than that unless it is free.

 

B

[magregor]

My 2 cents worth is...if you go cheap, it could cost you close to 3k for rebuilt heads/valves, etc... for the difference in price for oem and aftermarket...I would go oem...just my thoughts

[DoctorBill]

I bought two Beck/Arnley Front Crankschaft Oil Seals for $5 each at Schucks.

THE only two Oil Seals in all of Spokane's Schucks Stores !

 

Wendle Nissan in Spokane had NONE in stock ! Lord God !

 

NAPA had some CR (Crimson Rutebaga ?) oil seals for $9 ea.

 

Will not take pictures. Will drain some Coolant in order to remove the top Coolant Tube

so I can get the Shroud out.

 

I plan to remove all coverings over the Timing Belt and run the engine with only

the Water Pump - Alternator Belt to see where the leak is and then again when

the Oil Seal is replaced.

 

I would advise this option when you are done so that you can prove to yourself

that all is well, then replace everything. It makes sense now that this has happened....

 

I hope I can get the Main Damper Bolt out w/o problems as I put Permatex Blue

(removable) Thread Lock on that bolt's threads and Air Hammered it in place.

 

I will try my 30 foot Cheater bar w/o removing the plugs or the belts first.

Maybe the engine's resistance will let me loosen the Bolt - don't think I have

room for the Air Hammer to get in there with the Radiator in place.

 

If not, then a ½ in ratchet and my rubber mallet.

 

If that doesn't work - off comes the Radiator. Removing the Radiator wouldn't be

so bad if the Morons who designed it made draining it even just reasonable.

 

What is 'funny' is that as I put that Bolt back in, I was wondering if it wasn't a

mistake to use the thread lock - what if I had to take it out again ? Premonition ?

 

I will update this as I go - I intend to go as fast as I can this time.

No more Mr. Nice Guy !

 

DoctorBill

Edited August 17, 2009 by DoctorBill

[adamzan]

What you could do to loosen the harmonic balancer bolt is put your cheater bar against the frame and bump the starter, but disconnect the plugs first!

[DoctorBill]

"What you could do to loosen the harmonic balancer bolt is put your cheater bar against the frame

and bump the starter, but disconnect the plugs first!" - Adamzan

 

Crvett69 just said that to me in an E-Mail....

 

I think I remember someone mentioning that quite a while back in this thread, also.

 

Lord, what if the Bolt won't give - could it break the cheater bar? Send metal flying into maybe

my Radiator or someone's face ?

 

Sounds dangerous ! Have you personally done that ?

 

If all else fails, I might work up the nerve to try it. That starter motor is so very powerful !

 

Been resting all afternoon. I'm 66 and not feeling very spry with all this rainy weather.

Tomorrow is another day, though.

 

Bought two Oil Seals. THE only two left in Spokane besides the NAPA "Crimson Rutabaga" ones for $9 each.

 

Been watching the News and wondering why a certain party denigrates and belittles its constituency...how very strange.

 

You don't bite the hand that feeds you ! .....unless you are feeding from some other hand....

 

DoctorBill

Edited August 18, 2009 by DoctorBill

[adamzan]

I haven't personally done it but it's worth a try. I have to do the timing belt on my dads truck next week, he is going in for surgery, luckily his is a 5 speed, 2000 model year.

[Simon]

"What you could do to loosen the harmonic balancer bolt is put your cheater bar against the frame

and bump the starter, but disconnect the plugs first!" - Adamzan

 

Crvett69 just said that to me in an E-Mail....

 

I think I remember someone mentioning that quite a while back in this thread, also.

 

Lord, what if the Bolt won't give - could it break the cheater bar? Send metal flying into maybe

my Radiator or someone's face ?

 

Sounds dangerous ! Have you personally done that ?

 

If all else fails, I might work up the nerve to try it. That starter motor is so very powerful !

I have done it, on 2 or 3 occasions where an impact gun wasn't available. Worked just fine. The key is to bump the starter. Not crank it over for 10 seconds. We're talking a <1 second bump. Take the coil wire off the distributor so she can't fire up.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Simon

[k9sar]

that's the only way I do it. The starter isn't strong enough to break anything like that. Don't worry about flying metal unless you don't have a good place to rest your cheater bar. I slip mine into a length of pipe and use the ground to block it. I have seen others use just a cheater bar and a jack to support the handle. I opted not to use this method since I had a crappy jack and I did not trust that it wouldn't slip off. My new floor jack would work fine but I'm just used to my pipe and the earth for support.

[DoctorBill]

Now that I know what I am doing.....

 

(If you believe THAT, I have a National Health Plan to sell you !)

 

...things are going nicely (KNOCK ON WOOD!).

 

Drained some Coolant, removed the Upper Coolant Hose, removed the Shroud by

popping out the lower round portion (so nice), and then the Plastic Fan Blade Assembly.

 

NOTICE and WARNING ! The Aluminum/Plastic Radiator has "Fins" in it that are such thin

Aluminum that they are just about as easy to bend as Aluminum Foil you wrap sandwiches in !

 

I kid you not.....

 

I placed two pieces of Cardboard over the radiator Fins and wired it in place.

 

Couldn't get the Damper (Harmonic Oscillator ?) Bolt to loosen (the damned thing rotates easily).

Couldn't fit my Air Hammer in there - no room.

 

So....with great trepidation and shaking hands, I set up my 30 foot Cheater Bar with a pipe,

covered the inside Radiator with a piece of wood shelving and a 2x4 to hold the cheater bar

against the Damper and took off the main spark wire from the coil.

 

I know I said no more pictures, but I can't help myself - I'm obsessive compulsive...4 views !

 

 

 

 

 

The "Pipe" was my Fence Post Pounder - the only thing I had short enough to fit under the Vehicle.

 

I put the Positive Battery connector back on and turned the starter switch as damned quickly as I could....!

 

Heard a huge expolsion (oh - sorry - I had Chili last night..) and when I looked, nothing seemed to

have happened.

 

But when I checked the Bolt - it was loose !

 

Hot Damn ! That method works like a Democrat voting for more spending and more taxes....

 

I will now remove the Power Steering, Water Pump Belt and AC Belts, the AC tensioner assembly, the Damper

and all the cover plates.

 

Then I'll put the Damper back on and the Water Pump/Alternator Belt and run the engine and watch

for where the oil is coming from....

 

More to come - few if any photos.

 

DoctorBill

Edited August 18, 2009 by DoctorBill

[k9sar]

did we happen to mention that you can't put it back on the same way?

[DoctorBill]

did we happen to mention that you can't put it back on the same way?

 

OK...BTW - how many ft-lbs of torque would that method apply ?

 

So far so good....been waiting for some shade.

 

I got everything off - had to drain the Coolant to get to some bolts on the lower cover.

The Main Coolant Pipe was in the way.

Now I am not sure of what I am seeing...maybe I didn't screw up !

 

The two Camshaft Oil Seals are dry.

 

The Bottom Front Crankshaft Oil Seal "looks" OK.

 

Either the Timing Belt (which didn't have much oil on it at all !) threw oil up on the top of the

Oil Pump Housing, or the Oil Pump Gasket may be leaking...!

 

 

 

The Front Crankshaft Oil Seal looks OK to me, but what do I know about Oil Seals !?

 

 

 

I need some opinions now.

 

Could the Oil Pump have blown the gasket on the front - or would Oil get thrown up there if the

Front Oil Seal leaked ?

 

Is a leaking Oil Pump gasket uncommon or has it happened to anyone before ?

 

This vehicle had the following things wrong before I started:

1. A bad R3 Oil Seal

2. A Water Pump with signs of the weep hole leaking

 

Now maybe a bad Oil Pump Gasket.

 

I have no idea who serviced this Timing Belt before I bought the vehicle or what was done in addition to

changing the Timing Belt.

 

DoctorBill

 

 

PS - I just remembered something - I bought this Pathfinder from a guy who was selling it for his father.

This fellow works here in my town for Case Hardware repairing Farm Machinery and said he was doing an

engine rebuild of some muscle car.

 

Hell - I'll bet HE did the TB on this Pathfinder - that's why they claim there are no maintenance records.

The TB was a NAPA Belt - a shop would probably go for OEM for liability reaons....

 

If he works on Farm Machinery, I'll bet he "Meat Hands" what he does. He didn't want to tell me that the

work as "home done" - maybe he whacked something....quick and dirty...like the Oil Pump Gasket.

 

It was so very strange that his Dad had kept no maintenance records....most everyone keeps receipts in

case the job goes south.

 

*%#(^$@# *&$@^%$ !

Edited August 19, 2009 by DoctorBill

[k9sar]

wipe everything down.

leave everything off (v-belts, covers, balancer, etc) (put the TB back on)

leave the coil disconnected

crank it using the starter only. You won't have to go very long and don't worry about draining the battery.

If you can rig a remote starter switch (I used an old extension cord and a house wall switch), you can control the cranking while shoving your head in there to look. Just run from the battery positive to the trigger post on the starter solenoid (after disconnecting the silly little plug)

 

With everything wiped and clean, it should be obvious where the oil is coming from. With the amount shown in your 'failure' (for lack of better reference), it should be very obvious. You are not looking for a small leak.

 

 

hmmm.. thinking about the lower seal... you might want to put your HB back on and snug the bolt. I wonder if you would blow the seal out if you did not have the TB gear and the HB bolted on. It need not be tight since it's keyed and you won't be cranking it for very long.

 

You could also dust suspected areas with baby powder or chalk dust to help see where the fresh oil comes from. Never done it but I have heard of it being done.

Edited August 19, 2009 by k9sar

[DoctorBill]

hmmm.. thinking about the lower seal... you might want to put your HB back on and snug the bolt.

I wonder if you would blow the seal out if you did not have the TB gear and the HB bolted on.

You could also dust suspected areas with baby powder or chalk dust to help see where the fresh oil comes from.

Never done it but I have heard of it being done.

 

Good ideas. I will try them.

 

The Front Oil Seal keeps the oil inside the engine block, but is that oil under 45 PSI from the Oil Pump

or is it just the Oil Slopping around inside, but under no pressure.

 

The only place that Oil is under pressure is in journals.

Once it leaves the journals, it simply flows back to the oil pan.

 

If the oil behind the Front Crankshaft Oil Seal is just slopping around oil, it shouldn't force

the seal out.

 

If the oil were pressurized behind those seals, there would be something quite substantial

there to keep it in - not just the rubber seal itself.

 

It would need a threaded cap or some such thing.

 

I am looking up the Oil Pump and its gaskets on Schucks web site right now.

 

I am on "dial-up", so everything takes an eternity.

 

DoctorBill

[Terrano1992]

Is a leaking Oil Pump gasket uncommon or has it happened to anyone before ?

It is not a common failure. Check oil pump bolts tightening. Link to FSM ("Lubrication and Cooling" - hope it helps). Don't overtorque these bolts - loose and tighten to specified moment one by one.

Then wipe dry all suspected areas, install TB (without front covers) and HB. Disconnect coil (or remove central wire from distributor and connect free wire end to engine ground). Crank engine with starter (until red oil lamp goes off) and look for fresh oil leak traces, as k9sar said.

Oil pump gasket replacement will be a royal PITA... FSM says, you need to drop oil pan before oil pump removal...

[k9sar]

...

Oil pump gasket replacement will be a royal PITA... FSM says, you need to drop oil pan before oil pump removal...

 

but just think of the nice annotated how-to thread you could create.

[blackspawn]

Doc, do you think that putting on a new front oil seal put more pressure on the oil pump seal and is causing it to blow oil out?(just thinking)

[DoctorBill]

Blackspawn - No, if the Front Crankshaft Oil Seal is doing what it is supposed to do,

why would that make another seal (gasket) blow out...?

 

I did the test with Talcum Powder and a cleaned up front area.

 

I cleaned all the oil off with Kleenexes and powdered the area - like a baby's butt !

 

Put on the TB and the Damper and had the battery charging up all night.

Grounded the main spark wire.

 

 

Cranked for maybe 45 - 60 seconds and another 10 seconds after the oil pressure

light went out.

 

Immediatley took off the Damper, Timing Belt, and Camshaft Pulley and took pictures.

 

Nothing leaked except one place.....Here is what I saw: Be patient - Photobucket is going berserk !

 

Front Crankshaft Oil Seal - no evidence of a leak.

 

R3 Camshaft Oil Seal - no evidence of a leak.

 

L3 Camshaft Oil Seal - no evidence of a leak.

 

The Oil Pump showed a leak at the upper right side where I had thought it was leaking before.

 

It is difficult to photograph this part of the Oil Pump front.

 

Here is a diagram from the FSM showing a gasket which I suspect is bad (at the exteme right end).

 

I checked the Bolts on the front of the Oil Pump and they are tight.

I don't want to fart around with the Oil Pump...it frightens me....beyond my pay grade...

If we all agree now, on where this sucker is leaking, I have a few thousand questions to ask...

 

First - the "front aluminum oil pump cover" - if I remove those 3 (or 4?) bolts, does the front plate of

the Oil Pump come off ?

 

Second - could I purchase another one of those Gaskets (Labeled with a big X above) ?

Third - Does anyone know what the part number is for that Gasket. I'll bet if I call Wendle Nissan and

ask the parts guy, he'll say there are 17 Gozillion different gaskets and he can't find the one I wont

by my describing it....

 

Fourth - The FSM calls for Silicone sealer on the above Gasket.

 

Fifth - Do I really have to take the Oil Pan off just to fix that freaking Gasket ?

 

Sixth - Why in the world would that gasket fail ! A gasket either works at first, or it doesn't...fail ?

 

BTW Folks...you do realize what this means, do you not ? !

 

The great and wonderful Wizard of Oz (DoctorBill) DID NOT screw up the Timing Belt Installation !

 

Those seals are in there and working just fine....Ha, ha, ha, ha........!

 

I am a happy camper - I thought I had really screwed up. NOT !

 

Just had to say that......This calls for a Beer and a Cigar to celebrate !

DoctorBill

Edited August 19, 2009 by DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Jesus....

 

Crvett69 tells me that I'd have to remove the Oil Pan just to get at that Oil Pump

cover plate and take out the Oil Pump.

 

In order to remove the Oil Pan, I'd have to remove the Front Axle...

 

I am now very, very sorry that I bought this vehicle - wish I hadn't now !

 

This is just sheer madness....designed by The Three Stooges !

 

DoctorBill

 

Here is what is happening just north of (next to) our house.

[DoctorBill]

I am ready to have this ridiculous piece of garbage towed in to Spaulding Wrecking !

 

I wouldn't even contemplate fixing the Oil Pump - and for a $5 gasket !

 

Remove the front axle to take off the Oil Pan - I am not freaking insane....

 

It might as well have been "totaled" as far as repairing it costs.....$750 labor (10 hours labor) I was just quoted.

 

170,000 miles on it and if the Oil Pump were fixed, then another freaking problem would show up.

 

This is a "Money Pit."

 

I wonder what is next ?

 

I would never buy another Nissan vehicle. Never. Japanese engineering.....

 

Anybody want a really cheap Nissan Pathfinder (it is good at finding a path to the poor house...)

 

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Right now, I feel like "Earl Pitts" on AM RAdio...."I'm so mad I could.....etc."

 

Crvett69 has asked me a few times, "...are you sure all the OP Bolts are tightened down?"

 

I checked them - yes.

 

While contemplating setting the thing on fire, I thought about the OP Gasket Diagram

and modified it so as to show where each bolt goes more clearly...Notice the one in red.

 

 

If I am not mistaken, my OP does not have that bolt...unless that bolt is ALSO the ALternator

Pivot Bolt right next to the OP.

 

I looked with a flashlight, but there is so much grease, oil and dirt right there that I couldn't tell

if the Alternator Pivot Bolt Hole was part of the OP or not...

 

So I hosed it with 'JUNK' and will wash it off tomorrow.

 

If that bolt in red also holds the Alternator, maybe I had not tightened it enough to keep

the right side OP Gasket tightened down sufficiently....

 

I am probably full of crap, but I am praying that there is a way out of this trap...

 

Later (8:10 PM) -

Crvett69 tells me that the Red Bolt Holds the Alternator Adjustment Bracket onto the engine.

 

I could not tell that from all the road grime on my Vehicle.....maybe this is why the oil pump

gasket leaks - maybe I hadn't tightened that bolt down enough. Supposed to be 12 ft-lbs.

 

If so...I will reassemble the TB and WP/Alternator belts, the Coolant hoses and run this bastard

until it is hot and see if it still leaks....$750 !

 

DoctorBill

Edited August 20, 2009 by DoctorBill

[Terrano1992]

Hey, Doc, me think you have a last hope to fight a leak without oil pump removal.

Loose all bolts holding oil pump cover to engine block. Prepare a tube presser loaded with a tube of liquid sealant (you can try liquid silicone sealant or "gasket shellac"). Cut and bend tube spout so it will meet this job requirements. Pump sealant into leak zone with maximum pressure you can produce (fluid must penetrate into crack between cover and engine block and moisten a fault area of gasket). Wipe off excess sealant, then tighten all bolts to a specified moment. Allow sealant to set (3-4 hour minimum, overnight will be better) and test for leak again.

I can't guarantee it helps, but you can try. It will be more easier instead of front axle and oil pan dropping... A key to success: pump sealant into the crack (applying it to mating surfaces), do not apply it over the crack.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Terrano1992

[DoctorBill]

....pump sealant into the crack (applying it to mating surfaces), do not apply it over the crack.

 

Sounds like a plausable idea, Terrano'92 ! If what I discovered below doesn't work.....

Maybe a syringe & needle - with thick type instant glue ! Slow setting and thick...hmmm.

 

What do you think of the fact that the Alternator Bracket Bolt is one of those holding the

Oil Pump down onto that gasket....far right side - where the leak is ?

 

I didn't realize that fact and don't remember worrying about the Alternator Bracket Bolt

very much.

 

You are in Russia ? Which "province' ? State ? What do you call each part of Russia - States?

 

DoctorBill

Edited August 20, 2009 by DoctorBill

[k9sar]

If I were to attempt to shove sealant into the crack, it would be a silicone gasket adhesive or similar hi-temp rtv. Might be a bugger to get in there but would compress and seal. my 2 cents

[adamzan]

My friend used this stuff (i'm pretty sure) to fix a hole the size of a penny in his oil pan. It actually worked. Of course the car died about 8 months later buy hey, it was worth it.

 

[Simon]

If using Permatex stuff, use the red. It's higher temps, and sticky as hell. Great stuff.