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Replacing the Timing Belt & Adding an AT Cooler


DoctorBill
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I put the TB back on, took out plug #1 and the piston was at the top.

Are those pistons flat on top or compound curved?

Felt like it was sloped when I pushed a stick down in there.

 

Now that I've put the Timing Belt on a couple of times, it seems like no big deal !

 

Tomorrow I will put the Radiator back on and fill it.

 

If it still leaks, the only other option I want to partake of is to drive it

into the shop and let them do the Oil Pump for $750. I decided to go for it....

I'm into this BEAST for too much dineros.

 

If the Coolant is hooked up, then all I'll do is put on the WP-Alt and PS

Belts so I can drive it into town. Don't need AC at the moment.

 

The rest of it - screw it. It will make it into town w/o the shroud and all that

stuff. I can then drive it home and finish the details when the shop is done

with the Oil Pump.

 

If it works (I pray), then I can drain a portion of the Coolant with the new

plastic tube I put on the drain Tap and drain enough to get the top hose off

and finish the Shroud.

 

The Hole below the Radiator drain tap didn't line up with the tap barb, so I drilled

it out toward the front so a tube could go thru that metal support down thru to

underneath. Now no more coolant all over everything !

 

Tomorrow about 10 AM I will start it up and drive it around as before for

15 minutes and park it and put a piece of cardboard under the front to look

for oil dripping like it did before. I can also examine the Oil Pump area.

 

Man I am tired. This is too much for an old fart like me. Didn't expect all this to happen.

 

Also, I'm going to have the Oil Changed at minute lube - let them handle that idiotic

Oil Filter bullcrap !

 

Has anyone ever fashioned a sheet metal thing-a-mabob to sort of funnel the Oil Filter

dribblings away from everything below it ? What a dumb setup....

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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Oh, Doc, I just recently changed the oil pan in my '95 and it isn't an overwhelming job...the only tricky part about the whole project is getting the front diff in and out of the truck. It is a feat that would require an extra set of hands getting the front diff in place. I did it by myself, but wished I had an extra set of hands. If you decide to do it, let me know...I can help (in the forum of course!)

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Got the WP-Alt Belt on and the PS Pump Belt.

 

Put the Coolant hoses back on the Radiator and filled it.

 

Checked all the Bolts for tightness and started it up.

 

Runs fine. Exhaust manifold clicking nicely - thank you very much !

 

After about 15 minutes.....

 

OilLeaking.jpg

 

I cannot see any oil coming out of the Oil Pump gasket. Maybe the Spray n' Seal did it's job.

 

Neither Camshaft Seal is leaking. If the Oil Pan were leaking, it wouldn't drip off that front

pointed section right under the Crankshaft.

 

The leak is slow but steady and stops fairly soon after the engine is stopped.

 

At this point, I will remove the Belts again and replace the Lower front Crankshaft Seal just for the

Hell of it...I have two replacements !

 

Putting the TB and other belts on and off is becoming second nature to me now...easy !

 

If a Seal change doesn't work, then off to a shop and let someone who is competent do the work.

I have no idea where the oil is coming from, if not that front crankshaft seal.

 

No MaGregor, I would not attemt the Oil Pan. Too much for an old Fart like me !

 

DoctorBill

 

PS - Strange thing happened.

Checked the Oil Level before I started the engine - ½ quart low. No sweat.

Started engine - ran it several minutes - killed it to check everything.

The dip stick showed NO OIL on it ! S**t my pants ! Added a quart of oil.

Ran the engine for a minute.

Dip stick showed oil about 1-2 mm over the full mark...

 

WTF happened ? Is this machine possessed ?

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You have to wait a bit before checking the oil after shutting it off. I thought I was 1/2 a quart low but then I waited 5 minutes and it was full again.

 

And if the crankshaft seal is the culprit, I guess you can go back to thinking you screwed the pooch eh :tongue:

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Adamzan "And if the crankshaft seal is the culprit, I guess you can go back to thinking you screwed the pooch eh?"

 

Well, we will see what we will see....

 

If replacing the FC Oil Seal does the trick - yes, I screwed the pooch.

 

If not, then I am good for another Timing Belt....and am vindicated.

 

Which will it be ? How about a vote....will I win like Obama or go down in defeet like McCain ?

 

Here is what the front end looks like after taking the Belts off.

 

FCOSStraightView.jpg

 

FCOSRtSideView.jpg

 

FCOSLtSideView.jpg

 

I am going to endeavor to perservere and endeavor to quit trying to "logic" this thing out.

 

I have no clue as to what is going on - I am JAFO...

 

When I get some shade, I am going to rip the Oil seal out and use that plastic sheet trick to insert a new one.

 

Let me rephrase that - attempt to insert a new one.

 

DoctorBill

 

PS - I wonder how many repair shops have problems like this that you don't hear about - have to go back and redo it.

You wouldn't know 'cause they wouldn't tell you...

One is always hardest on one's self...unless one is an unmitigated egotist and is ALWAYS right and perfect (like my boss was).

Edited by DoctorBill
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I saw something in one of your pics doc...maybe this is where the coolant is coming from? If you look at the pic that has the bottom edge of the water pump in it (second pic), it seeems wet along there...see if you can squeeze down there and look at the bottom edge of the waterpump...

Edited by magregor
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If you look at the pic that has the bottom edge of the water pump in it (second pic),

it seeems wet along there...see if you can squeeze down there and look at the

bottom edge of the waterpump...

When you are putting on the Hoses and adding Coolant, it seems to get everywhere and on everything !

 

One problem with doing this is that any oil or coolant naturally falls to the bottom where the TB Sprocket (and the TB itself)

is spinning right there where the liquid goes.

 

This makes for a mess and it is hard to tell what is actually happening and where.

 

This thread is becoming much too long - much more than I intended.

 

I should start a new one perhaps Titled "An Amateur Attempting to Fix an Oil Leak Up Front".

 

Oh well, by tomorrow, I should know (or not....).

 

I might have to pay some shop mechanic to find out.

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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I think that even though the thread is long, that may mean that there is a lot of interest in how to troubleshoot issues as they come...I think you are doing a fantastic job and I think I can speak for all who have viewed/replied to this thread...I enjoy monitoring your progress/regress all through this project! Keep it up Doc! Is all I have to say! :aok:

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I think that even though the thread is long, that may mean that there is a lot of interest in how to troubleshoot issues as they come...I think you are doing a fantastic job and I think I can speak for all who have viewed/replied to this thread...I enjoy monitoring your progress/regress all through this project! Keep it up Doc! Is all I have to say! :aok:

I second that DOC, please don't give up!! You've help me out more than you know and I haven't even started yet. :goodpost:

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I hope this thread is useful to someone...Been feeling like everything I touch turns to crap lately.

 

Took the Front Crankshaft Oil Seal out. Came out with difficulty - had to use a seal puller that looks

like a medieval axe weapon. I showed a picture of it somewhere back - seems ages ago...

 

The front Oil Seal - the internal spring was where it should have been.

 

You have to essentially destroy them to get them out !

FCSOilSeal.jpg

 

Several views of the Crankshaft. What is the Brass Ring in there for ?

Crankshaft-1.jpg

 

Why is that darker ring just inside the Brass Ring not perfectly round ?

Crankshaft-2.jpg

 

These close-ups are hard to get right - the camera wants to focus on the end of the Crankshaft.

Crankshaft-3.jpg

 

I am not sure the Oil seal was leaking. (?)

 

I will fashion some plastic tube thingie as described before to install the next one.

 

Has anyone had an oil leak problem like this before ?

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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I checked both manuals and can't find anything about the brass ring behind the seal...I think it is there just for a backing and smooth surface for the seal to but against??? Scratching head... Anyone else have any ideas?

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I photographed the Nissan FC Oil Seal I took out just now alongside the new Beck/Arnley FC Oil Seal that I will install soon.

 

Front and Back - I have no idea which is front or back sides...

 

The Nissan Oil Seal is not sealed on both sides of the metal washer as the B/A Oil Seal is - Yellow Arrows.

 

NissanvsBeck-ArnleyFront.jpg

Notice the difference in the outer wall thickness.

 

NissanvsBeck-ArnleyBack.jpg

 

...and FYI - the FSM Oil Pump Schematics - Page LC -4. I did a screen capture with my Hewlet-Packard "Screen Capture" program.

BTW - there are many Freeware Screen Capture programs available !

NONAGS Freeware Progams

Freeware Home - Collection of Free Software

"Only Freeware"

SimTel.Net Freeware

OilPumpSchematic.jpg

 

I can't tell doodlie from those schematics.

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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I checked the Nissan FSM and the Haynes manual, but couldn't find anything either...even combed Google Images as well...The "front" of the seal is the opposite side of the seal that has the spring or open end. that is the side that you don't want exposed to the elements. The only thing I can think of is that the brass or copper ring behind the seal is the only "barrier" between the seal and the oil pump gear. It could also be a shim to adjust the end play in the oil pump gear as well. I wouldn't worry about it, unless you want to pull the pump off to inspect it. BUT, that would involve taking out the oil pan, which you had clearly stated that you wouldn't do yourself...I would suggest to put in the new seal carefully with the method I suggested and give it one last try....I have faith that installing the new seal in with the plastic barrier to get it over the lip (put a skim of grease on the seal surface to help it slide on easy) will solve the leak. In the FSM, it also suggested using a big flat washer and a deep socket that would fit over the crankshaft and tap the seal in that way. It will slide in square and flush using that method as well.

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So I got it right - Front vs Back ?

 

Does the Crankshaft spin that "Inner Gear" making the off center "Outer Gear" rotate and,

by centrifugal action, push the oil out like a centrifugal pump does ?

 

I have a difficult time translating diagrams into visual movement.

 

I saw a Cutaway Differential at a "Pull-n-Save" here in Spokane that finally made clear to me

how a differential works.

 

Anyway - I will install the New B/A Oil Seal tomorrow after I play around with a plastic sheet

that I have to come up with somehow. Have to look thru my box of Odds n Ends where I save

all sorts of crap for a day like this. My daughter makes fun of me for keeping all the odd stuff

I have in boxes all over the place.

 

My "treasures" as I call them....

 

Do you guys have many bottles of Screws, Bolts, Washers, Nuts, boxes of wire, hunks of metal

Pipe, sheets, formed stuff, etc ? Odd Pieces of wood, old tools, electrical stuff, empty bottle and cans

that might be good for cleaning or storage ?

I have a veritable "Junk Yard" of crap - I even buy buckets of "odds & ends" at garage sales...

 

I am a pack rat ! An obsessive compulsive gatherer...I can barely get thru my Garage - it is stuffed.

 

And...I know where everything is, too !

 

Maybe my true calling would be to run a junkyard...Heaven !

 

DoctorBill

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Does the Crankshaft spin that "Inner Gear" making the off center "Outer Gear" rotate and,

by centrifugal action, push the oil out like a centrifugal pump does ?

No. It's a gear-tupe pump, not a centrifugal. Look here and see how "Gerotor Pump" works.

 

 

Anyway - I will install the New B/A Oil Seal tomorrow

Before you install new seal: check crankshaft neck for any traces of a wear (small groove under the lip of old seal). If groove exists, new original oil seal will leak too.

Example photo: grooved camshaft (look to end of a neck, near a conical part of camshaft)

Upl006.jpg

 

 

To effectively fight with it, aftermarket spare part manufacturers produced special "repair" seals. The only difference of these seals is lip placed with "offset" (displacement) relatively to original (so this lip sits at different place of a neck, non-grooved). All other dimensions are the same as original.

I can't find the better picture to illustrate these words, but the main point is clearly illustrated here (text comments at a picture are on Russian, don't worry about it):

Upl007.jpg

This picture shows standard oil seal installation with displacement. "Repair" seals displacement provided by their construction.

 

Good example of "repair seals" are AJUSA 15011700 (Front Main Seal) and AJUSA 15037500 (Rear Main Seal). I had to install both (there are visible grooves on my crankshaft necks, approximately 0.05-0.1 mm in depth) - and these seals are absolutely dry now, no leak at all...

Edited by Terrano1992
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Holy Makeral, Terrano1992, I had no idea about the grooved shaft business !

How and why do those grooves form ? That seems odd given that the Oil Seal is rubber.

 

I will attempt to look ASAP. Rather hard to get one's head in there and my eyes are bad...

 

The grooves would be well inside that oil seal slot - rather difficult to see no doubt.

What is a good method to see those grooves given that tight space ?

 

So - I wonder if those modified types of Oil Seals you mentioned are sold in America ?

 

Maybe one of our highly intelligent, worldly wise and kindly readers can inform us about such

"Repair Oil Seals" sold here in the USA. (?)

Given our propensity to spend money hand over fist, I suspect you'd be told, "Your engine

is unrepairable - totaled - send it to the junk yard !"

Then again - on the other hand...given all the Hydraulic Machinery that is used in America,

there must be some common "repair oil seals" sold somewhere.....this problem can't be all that uncommon.

 

Comments, guys ?

 

 

Thanks for the information on the geared oil pump, also.

 

I did not know about that...so they can also be a hydraulic motor !

 

I guess that that is how "Bobcats" run - I rented a Bobcat twice - they work well !

 

A GEARED Hydraulic pump run by the Gasoline Engine and a Geared Hydraulic Motor turning

the wheels. Reverse the fluid flow to reverse the Hydaulic Motors on the wheels.

 

The nominal oil pressure that a Nissan V6 oil pump should make at 2,000 rpm

is 53 - 65 psi. Chilton Manual page 3-6 bottom chart.

 

That miserable little rubber Front Oil Seal can't possibly be holding back 50 psi of Oil Pressure !

But it would get quite hot and become even more flexible.

 

Thanks Terano1992 - you know quite a lot about automobiles !

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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How and why do those grooves form ?[/b][/color] That seems odd given that the Oil Seal is rubber.

Dirty oil contains abrasive particles...

Also, do you remember that you can polish old copper (i.e. mechanically remove oxide layer from surface) with a clean soft cloth or felt?

 

The grooves would be well inside that oil seal slot - rather difficult to see no doubt.

Take a piece of thin steel wire, bend one end to "L" form and use it as a feeler.

 

So - I wonder if those modified types of Oil Seals you mentioned are sold in America ?

I think yes, but i don' know specific names and numbers for US market... AJUSA and Victor Reinz are European manufacturers. It's possible that Payen (Federal Mogul) NJ280 (47x33x8 mm) or NJ368 (47x33x7 mm) are "repair-type" seals, but i can't verify it.

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Been doing some "Googling" trying to find "Repair Oil Seals" - all I get is "Repair: Oil Seals"...merde.

 

I did find a link to BARS products which claims to "Seal Oil Leaks" on rear main seals...

 

Barsproducts oil seal leak stopper

 

Ever tried that stuff ?

 

...one of those magical "chemical products" one finds on Automotive store shelves that can fix any

problem one might have. Like the old "Elixers" that peddlers sold on the road to heal ANY problem.

 

Now they are sold on TV - Natural Male Enhancement

 

Has anyone reading this tried that product ? If so, why ? icon8.gif

 

They must sell one Hell of a lot of it - otherwise there wouldn't be so many of those ads on TV !

 

Apparently the FDA tried to stop them, but they just changed the Ad slightly...

Enzyte's history

 

Just "FYI"

 

DoctorBill

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