Precise1 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I thought the black had better oil resistance?? Maybe I have it crossed... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I'm not sure about that. You may be right, B. I believe the red is gas and oil resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 but it should be hi-temp (of course, if it's 100% silicone, it's hi-temp whether it says so or not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrano1992 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Maybe a syringe & needle I think it will be suitable only for relatively thin liquid (like a "Gasket Shellac"). You can't create high pressure (sufficient to squeeze thick silicone sealant into the crack) by your fingers. You need "seal gun" to fill crack with automotive silicone sealant. - with thick type instant glue ! Most of glues are not oil-resistant until they are not set... What do you think of the fact that the Alternator Bracket Bolt is one of those holding the Oil Pump down onto that gasket... AC Compressor and alternator sits on a separate bracket, bolted to the side of engine block. So - no, there are different bolts... You are in Russia ? Yes. Yoshkar-Ola city, Mari-El republic of Russian Federation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrano1992 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 of course, if it's 100% silicone, it's hi-temp whether it says so or not) Not necessarily. For example, "100% silicone" clear windshield sealants are not a hi-temp. Only 175..235 deg.C (typical engine blue/grey/red/black sealants are between 315 and 345 deg.C). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackspawn Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Don't give up Doc I know how it can get when you put alot of work in something and it turns out not like you want it. I've been looking at how to take off that oil pump and didn't anything about taking out the front axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) Terrano1992 Quote ".....alternator sits on a separate bracket, bolted to the side of engine block. So - no, there are different bolts..." The Alternator Tensioner Bracket shown in the Photo Below does bolt into and thru the Oil Pump Front Portion (See diagram EL-4 of FSM) on it's right side. The upper Alternator Mounting Bolt goes into the engine block - yes. But the Tensioner Bracket and the Oil Pump have a common bolt. I washed all that off with Degreaser ("Gunk") and looked very carefully with a hand mirror and flashlight. It is difficult to see and impossible to photograph. It corresponds with the right portion of the Oil Pump Front Piece as shown in the diagram and the Red Bolt in the diagram is the one in the photo above with the green "X" on it. It is hard to see when the engine is covered in grime and grease - but is obvious when cleaned off. At least on my '95 VG30E engine. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Edited in Later (2:30 PM) I have some PERMATEX Ultra Gray Sealer which I used to put a Transmission Case together with. Good Stuff! Am going into town - will buy whatever is High Temp, however. What would you use as a hi-pressure applicator ? I have no idea about that... If I loosen all the Bolts on that Oil Pump front, do you suppose it might "Move Back or Move Forward" enough for me to fill in the gap - would a gap form ? Anybody know what happens if those SIX (6) bolts in the diagram were loosened - would it be able to move enough to allow what you've suggested. So screw the Oil Pan business - would the Oil Pump "give" at all ? Or would any movement booger up another gasket somewhere else ? I wish I had taken more pictures of that area when the Water Pump was off... Any Pathfinder "Oil Pump Ex-Spurts" out there ? Who has replaced one ? DoctorBill Edited August 20, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) Went to Schucks and bought this stuff The Permatex Spray-n-Seal interested me - it is "New" - never saw it before. Have a look at the web site Permatex Spray n Seal Here is the pdf file mentioned in the Web Site above Permatex Seal n Spray pdf file Here is another article about SnP More on Spray n Seal If the Spray n Seal is a fluid, it might "wick" into the gasket where it leaks and seal it. THEN I could tighten the bolt(s) and squeeze the material in the gap.... I bought the syringe thingie to push the Red RTV Silicone into the gap. Not quite sure how I could force the Red RTV into the gap and not have it squirt out sideways. I still haven't decided what I will try FIRST. DoctorBill Edited August 21, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrano1992 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The Permatex Spray-n-Seal interested me - it is "New" - never saw it before. Never saw it before too. But this thing looks very promising. If the Spray n Seal is a fluid, it might "wick" into the gasket where it leaks and seal it.THEN I could tighten the bolt(s) and squeeze the material in the gap.... Yes. Degrease whole area around the gasket with any suitable solvent, paint (or tooth) brush and clean cloth, loose oil pump bolts, spray this thing directly to a crack with supplied extension tube. Allow to dry (30-45 min), then retighten pump bolts. Test for leak again. would any movement booger up another gasket somewhere else ? Again, yes. Pump movement can damage pump gasket even greater. Also, you can destroy sealant seam between oil pump and oil pan. So, don't try to pull oil pump case from engine block. Simply loose all pump bolts (it will not hurt any part) and spray Permatex along the whole length of pump gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) Never saw it before too. But this thing looks very promising. Can you find all these automotive things in Russia, now ? I lived in Argentina doing a PostDoc from 1971 to 1973 and you were lucky to find anything. They had "Import Restrictions" and embargos and this and that...drove me nuts. If it wasn't made in Argentina, you couldn't buy it. Peron's wife was back in power. Nationalism and Argentine pride, etc. All a big game and the big wigs got richer. How is Russia now ? Freeing up ? Don't want to cause you any trouble by asking too much. You look almost identical to my brother-in-law, John ! In your avatar, I'd swear it was him ! Many Nissan pathfinders where you live ? Rural or City driving ? What does gasoline cost (in equivalent U$S) per liter there? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Yes, I was thinking of dribbling a volatile solvent (acetone or MEK ?) on the leaking area and maybe the solvent would carry any oil or water back into the sump (I'll change the oil right after). I'd allow it to dry for 24 hours and then apply and allow this "Stuff" to penetrate - wait another couple hours and tighten the bolts. Otherwise - If I had to use the Red RTV, thought maybe of trying to squeeze it in, then running a very thin metal strip into the gasket to push the stuff in. DoctorBill Edited August 21, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrano1992 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Yes, I was thinking of dribbling a volatile solvent (acetone or MEK ?) on the leaking area and maybethe solvent would carry any oil or water back into the sump (I'll change the oil right after). I'd allow it to dry for 24 hours and then apply and allow this "Stuff" to penetrate - wait another couple hours and tighten the bolts. Seems as a good method. Do it. Otherwise - If I had to use the Red RTV, thought maybe of trying to squeeze it in, then runninga very thin metal strip into the gasket to push the stuff in. No!!! Do not touch gasket! Or you will had to replace it with a new one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) I have not done anything yet, since I bought that stuff at Schucks yesterday. The Timing Belt and AT Cooler are done and OK as far as I am concerned. I'm rather worried that I might screw this Gasket thing up if I do the wrong thing right away - and cost myself $800. Been thinking (what I do best) of different approaches all night. I have already wiped the area of oil. I would like to clean that gasket gap off - the gasket is between a plate and a half plate and it is difficult to see it or get at it. I thought of trying to hose it off with water (kind of done that already with garden sprayer) using my garden hose, or maybe blasting it with my Air Compressor and an Air Gun, or washing it off with a toothbrush as you suggested, or just squirting some Methyl Ethyl ketone (MEK) or Xylol or Toluene or Acetone or Gasoline or Brake Cleaner Spray on it to wash off H2O or oil. All that sounds nice, except I visualized in my mind that any physical rubbing or blasting might push a small chunk of grit into the Gasket space and then later prevent the gap from closing when I tighten up the bolts. Even fine dirt could accumulate and pack in there and prevent it closing up. For all I know, something may already be in there ! So...trying to be the least intrusive, I think it best to loosen the bolts, gently squirt solvents (plural) into the "crack", let it dry thoroughly and then the Spray n' Seal - wait the specified time and retighten the bolts. I can always push the envelope harder later on... Yes ? Then I can put the TB and WP/ALT Belts back on and run the engine until convinced the problem is solved. If not - $800.... Idea edited in at 10:10 AM - I was going to let this Spray n' Seal "wick" into the space where oil is leaking out - a passive approach. I really have no good way to "force" it into the crack....and it sets quickly ! (~ 5 minutes) OK - how about "SUCKING" it into the crack ? - let's have no wicked thoughts folks ! What if....I put my Shop Vac over the Oil Cap (where you add oil) and turn it on... The inside of the engine would then be at a lower pressure than the outside and at that leak (crack in the gasket) things would be pushed in by the higher outside air pressure....no ? If I Clean the slot off, wash it with solvents, let it dry, spray on "Spray n' Seal", then right away apply the Shop vac to the Oil Fill Cap (off of course!) for a few minutes, maybe the S n' S would be pushed in much more better (Hillbilly Speak). Better yet...run the Shop Vac THEN squirt on Spray n' Seal ! I'll bet a Shop Vac pulls 7 - 9 psi of vacuum... Any S n' S that gets into the Oil inside should be caught by the Oil Filter. Yes...? Another thought - I could apply "Gorilla Glue" into that slot. (Urethane Monomer) It takes a couple hours to start polymerizing and once it foams up and hardens, it sticks to everything tighter than I have ever seen ANYTHING stick before. It even sticks to Polyethylene which Epoxy or Instant Glue won't stick to ! Becomes Polyurethane when hardened. I believe some Loctite products are urethane monomer based. (not sure, tho) DoctorBill Edited August 21, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 an interesting idea think of the open areas that you might want to plug also (crankcase breather tubes etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) an interesting idea think of the open areas that you might want to plug also (crankcase breather tubes etc) Yes - didn't think of them ! The problem is CONTROL....I don't want a really strong vacuum...just enought to suck some, of whatever sealant I pick, into the leaking gasket gap. I am favoring the Urethane Glue (Grilla or Elmers Ultimate) right now. It is fairly viscous. If I apply it, then pull the vacuum with my shop vac, I figure maybe 30 seconds of that would be sufficient. After all, I don't want all the Urethane glue sucked into the oil pump - just a small portion of a milliliter should fill the gap. A milliliter is about 20 standard drops - my students determine that in my Chemistry Class during their very first lab. What I am trying to do here is analogous to trying to fix a leak in a pressurized tank from the outside. It is pressurized when the engine is running - not so when the engine is off. Maybe a technical EXPERIMENT is called for here......me being of a scientific nature... Hedge my bets, as it were... How about I apply some Kerosene or Gasoline to the gap and apply suction with the Shop Vac ? If the liquid is sucked in (disappears), I will know.... 1. That the idea will work 2. That the solvent is flushing the gap out. 3. That whatever sealant I apply will be sucked in - urethane glue, Spray n Seal or Red RTV Silicone.... A small amount (couple of mL's) of Gasoline or Kerosene shouldn't hurt the oil - has 3.5 quarts of oil in there and I am going to change it after all this is done - unless I take it to the wrecking yard....! DoctorBill Edited August 21, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackspawn Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Ok, dumb question TIME!!! Did you have to loosing that red bolt when replacing the TB? If not how did that get loose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I can't wait to hear what goes wrong with the shop vac idea... It's a sound theory, but so is siphoning gas with one... So...trying to be the least intrusive, I think it best to loosen the bolts, gently squirt solvents (plural)into the "crack", let it dry thoroughly and then the Spray n' Seal - wait the specified time and retighten the bolts. I can always push the envelope harder later on... Yes ? Yes. I'd stick to following the direction first time around. You can always get more creative/aggressive later. I've found that Permatex makes good products and that they always do what they claim... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Ok, dumb question TIME!!! Did you have to loosing that red bolt when replacing the TB? If not how did that get loose? To be honest with you, I don't remember...I was loosening so many things while trying to get each power take off item to let go of the belts, I honestly don't remember. I could go out and see if it is really loose - but then...did I tighten it back up when I reassembled everything ? I have not done this job with any mechanical acumen, Gentlemen! Call it a "Hack Job" if you will... All I do know is that oil leaks out of the right side of that Oil Pump Gasket area - as far as I can tell. That said, how do I proceed ? I believe I have one round in my pistol and then "That's all she wrote !" From what all of you have said, I should loosen all the Oil Pump bolts (2 middle one on right) and do the "Sealing" - whatever is finally decided on. If it doesn't work - then it is either a $800 Shop Bill or the Wrecking Yard. DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 "I'd stick to following the direction first time around." Precise1 Ya...I'm getting impatient, probably as all of you are and I am a "Chicken S**t" as regards do anything 'non-standard'. So...I went out and loosened the three right-most bolts in the diagram (two middle and the red one.) Funny thing, the red one was not in very tight - I must had messed with it during the TB work. Funnier still, the one second in from the right was not very tight at all ! The third in from the right was quite tight. HA!...and it leaks on the right side. So now I am going to "Spray n Seal" as directed on the can. Be crazy not to do it now. I will return when done and have put back on the TB and WP/Alt belts, Coolant belts and run the damned thing..... ......Intermission..... DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 "I'd stick to following the direction first time around." Precise1 Ya...I'm getting impatient, probably as all of you are and I am a "Chicken S**t" as regards do anything 'non-standard'. So...I went out and loosened the three Oil Pump right-most bolts in the diagram (two middle and the red one.) Funny thing, the red one was not in very tight - I must have messed with it during the TB work.(?) Funnier still, the one second in from the right was not very tight at all ! The third in from the right was quite tight. HA!...and it leaks on the right side ! So now I am going to "Spray n Seal" as directed on the can. Be crazy not to do it now. I will return when done and have put back on the TB and WP/Alt belts, Coolant belts and run the damned thing..... ......Intermission..... DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) "I'd stick to following the direction first time around." Precise1 Ya...I'm getting impatient, probably as all of you are and I am a "Chicken S**t" as regards do anything 'non-standard'. So...I went out and loosened the three Oil Pump right-most bolts in the diagram (two middle and the red one.) Funny thing, the red one was not in very tight - I must have messed with it during the TB work.(?) Funnier still, the one second in from the right was not very tight at all ! The third in from the right was quite tight. HA!...and it leaks on the right side ! So now I am going to "Spray n Seal" as directed on the can. Be crazy not to do it now. I will return when done and have put back on the TB and WP/Alt belts, Coolant Hoses and run the damned thing..... ......Intermission..... For anyone interested - Spray n' Seal comes out of the long tube provided just like Soda Water ! Fast ! Splatters all over. Even looks like Soda Water - clear like water, same viscosity as water, and bubbly. Smells like Brake Cleaner (supposed to use Brake Cleaner to clean up ) and evaporates damned quickly leaving a thin sticky layer of what looks like saran wrap. Should penetrate gaps just like water would. DoctorBill Edited August 21, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 holy triple post batman! don't use urethane glue. It would probably get brittle and crack over time with the heat. Don't violate the gasket with by shoving anything in there (metal things etc) I would loosen the oil pump bolts lightly and lift gently on the side that leaks. Pull straight out so you don.t break the existing gasket. If you get any kind of gap to work with, give it a shot of goo then tighten those bolts. Let it fill the areas it needs to and ooz out all the excess. If you shoot rubber in there and let it harden, it may seal right there but would probably leak at the transition from the hardened goo to the existing gasket. Sounds like you need just a little shot and some good torque. Quit p***y-footing around and do it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 holy triple post batman! Quit p***y-footing around and do it already. I dood it ! See post above this one. DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) holy triple post batman! Quit p***y-footing around and do it already. After about 20 minutes, I tightened the Bolts with a torque wrench to 12 ft-lbs (big red) and 5 ft-lbs the two middle, smaller bolts. My big half inch torque wrench may not work down that low ! This Spray n' Seal feels like rubber glue if you get it on your fingers. Sprayed 4 - 5 layers on like the destructions say.... I will let it cure until tomorrow and then Hook up the Radiator, TB and WP/Alt Belts and run the engine. Be Patent Simon, the drill is - let it age before you engage.... While I am allowing the stuff to cure (dry?), I will cut a hole at the bottom of where the Radiator (I can remove it now that it has been emptied) sits on a rubber sheet so I can apply a small hose to the tap down there. It has a spigot tip ! That way, I can drain the bastard into a can w/o having Coolant run all over everything. Tomorrow, gentlemen. Pray for my Pathfinder to be OK. DoctorBill Edited August 21, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Okay....so?!?!?!? Does it leak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 ^ He didn't read the instructions... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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