ChaosSaint Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 What's up guys... So, I've been a lurker in this forum for a little while and decided to join up when I bought a 95 Pathy for $800 a week ago - complete with rust, broken odo (90,000 miles supposedly), broken tach, missing tension rod and a really funky odor to the interior. It's a little beat up but it runs and I know these vehicles are fairly hardy so I'm hoping to get a year or two out of it as a minimum. First off.. how much rust is too much? Is my whole frame going to crumble in the next 6 months or is this what they all end up looking like? I didn't realize it till after I bought it but there is a gaping hole in the rear end, passenger side, part of the frame - is this section load bearing? Other areas have small holes and are flaking off - it's pretty apparent that there wasn't much, or any, maintenance done to the underside. Does anyone think it's worth trying to repair some of it (box around it or remove and replace) or just drive it till it dies and ditch it? And secondly, when I drove it home on the highway I couldn't go over 55mph; when it hit a bump the entire front end of the car shook violently to the point where it was difficult to control the vehicle and had to pull over. I finally made it home, checked it out and noticed that the tension rod was broken. I replaced it today (with a struggle - didn't want to line up), and while I was in there I noticed some little "shims" crammed behind a bolt on the upper control arm. It's pretty apparent that they are not original parts. Are these shims for alignment purposes or something? if so, is this typical? or were they just crammed in there because the previous owner torqued the entire control arm out of whack because there was no tension/compression rod? Should I replace the upper control arm altogether? Haven't had the chance to road test it after installing the new tension rod cause i don't have it registered yet... Ideas/ suggestions anyone? Also, how easy should it be to shift into 4H? Do you have to push down on the head of the shift lever before pulling it into 4H? I went to test it out and the lever didn't want to go into 4H easily, I decided not to try to force it in. A cable gummed up? or some sort of linkage seized? Let me know what you think - any input would be appreciated as a lot of you seem to know what's up. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) For 800 bucks I wouldn't complain. Take a hammer to the frame, clean it all out (this is key to preventing future rot), and weld it up. It will be good to go for a long time. Also oil spray inside the frame. As for the shaking, make sure your steering is in good shape, and check the tension rod bushing cups, they tend to get pretty messed up. Also if it was driven carelessly or wheeled (doesn't look dirty under there though), various front end parts could need to be replaced. Generally working on these trucks is pretty easy unless you've got big hands like me! I believe those are alignment shims, though I am not too sure. For 4H you just pull it, it could be stiff from not being used, you can go underneath the truck and spray the linkages with pb blaster and that should make it nice and smooth. On the plus side, that center link looks new. Edited July 19, 2009 by adamzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchdiggerjcf Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 What's up guys... So, I've been a lurker in this forum for a little while and decided to join up when I bought a 95 Pathy for $800 a week ago - complete with rust, broken odo (90,000 miles supposedly), broken tach, missing tension rod and a really funky odor to the interior. It's a little beat up but it runs and I know these vehicles are fairly hardy so I'm hoping to get a year or two out of it as a minimum. First off.. how much rust is too much? Is my whole frame going to crumble in the next 6 months or is this what they all end up looking like? I didn't realize it till after I bought it but there is a gaping hole in the rear end, passenger side, part of the frame - is this section load bearing? Other areas have small holes and are flaking off - it's pretty apparent that there wasn't much, or any, maintenance done to the underside. Does anyone think it's worth trying to repair some of it (box around it or remove and replace) or just drive it till it dies and ditch it? And secondly, when I drove it home on the highway I couldn't go over 55mph; when it hit a bump the entire front end of the car shook violently to the point where it was difficult to control the vehicle and had to pull over. I finally made it home, checked it out and noticed that the tension rod was broken. I replaced it today (with a struggle - didn't want to line up), and while I was in there I noticed some little "shims" crammed behind a bolt on the upper control arm. It's pretty apparent that they are not original parts. Are these shims for alignment purposes or something? if so, is this typical? or were they just crammed in there because the previous owner torqued the entire control arm out of whack because there was no tension/compression rod? Should I replace the upper control arm altogether? Haven't had the chance to road test it after installing the new tension rod cause i don't have it registered yet... Ideas/ suggestions anyone? Also, how easy should it be to shift into 4H? Do you have to push down on the head of the shift lever before pulling it into 4H? I went to test it out and the lever didn't want to go into 4H easily, I decided not to try to force it in. A cable gummed up? or some sort of linkage seized? Let me know what you think - any input would be appreciated as a lot of you seem to know what's up. Thanks! Holy sheepdip batman! That is so ugly it hurts me to look at it. I am glad I don't live up north, so I don't have to deal with problems like that. Thank god you only gave $800 for that truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 first thing you need to do is either fix the rust yourself, or pay someone money to do it, cause it really does need the help. Make sure you are pushing the transfercase shifter the correct way, I know when I was a younger owner, I was misreading the shifter for it always being in N, and having to push up to make it engage, so make sure your just pulling back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Priority #1 is definatly get that frame back togher, from then on is removable parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeV Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Yep, I feel your pain, I cleaned mine out and boxed the frame with 3/16th. Welding rust is an art!-) (I used a grinder, Marine Clean, Metal Ready, then POR-15) POR-15 works well IF you prepare the surface, if not it peels of in a year. Metal Ready helped maintain my arc on rusty/porous metal instead of the constant sparkler effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 That is such a tight spot to work, care to elaborate on how you did it? also do you have any more pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 You have rust in the same places I had. I had the passager side repared except the rear most(whart you have pictured) and it has held up nicely.The front shot (of what I think is the drivers side) is still rotten on mine since I have not had the time to replace it. And the 55 top speed...are you sure its not stuck in 4hi and thats why its hard to shift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Where are ya at? If you need repair assistance maybe one of us are local to ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosSaint Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Yep, I feel your pain, I cleaned mine out and boxed the frame with 3/16th. Welding rust is an art!-) (I used a grinder, Marine Clean, Metal Ready, then POR-15) POR-15 works well IF you prepare the surface, if not it peels of in a year. Metal Ready helped maintain my arc on rusty/porous metal instead of the constant sparkler effect wow! i'm glad i'm not the only one sitting in a pile of rust flakes... Have any after pics? I'd be interested in how yours turned out. I'm new to welding and wondering if i would be biting off more than i can chew. Have a little bit of welding know-how but no tools - welder, grinder, etc... can they be rented maybe? I'm located in northern Delaware, a little bit of a hike to Ohio Edited July 23, 2009 by ChaosSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 A hike for me, but maybe not someone else....? I need to go a second round with my frame rust. Did a bunch of repairs 3 years ago, and more spots have appeared since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm going to try an experiment this winter. I used that spray rust converter on a surface spot on the fender, and the rust didn't get worse at all over the winter. I'll try to coat the inside of the frame as best I can and then wait till the stuff dries, then lace it with the oil spray stuff. Couldn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magregor Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Hey Chaos, I bought my first one almost a year ago and spent an entire winter rebuilding the whole frame. It was in worse shape than yours appears to be...Adamzan can vouch for the hours I spent underneath it...What I did first thing (if you have a hammer, wire brush and disc grinder, 1/8" plate steel, and a 60+ amp flux core mig welder or equivalent) is took out the rear diff and drive shaft, gas tank and exhaust. This made it easier to get at the spots you ARE going to find on the inside of the frame! I took a chipping hammer (or a good ball pean hammer) and started banging the frame. once I swept up the 5 gallons or so of rust flakes, I used a wire brush cup and put it on my grinder and start cleaning the frame up really good. I also lifted the body about 3' off the frame so I could get all around...(do it right the first time or it will come back and bite you in the ass). If you don't want to lift the body off, it is going to be difficult to get the metal welded in properly... I used Bristol board and a marker to trace out any sections of the frame that needed to be repaired and then transferred to plate steel. I don't have the luxury of a plasma cutter, so I went through A LOT of cutting discs on my grinder! I had no issues using a flux core welder to penetrate the 1/8" plate, as long as you have the wire speed down low and the welder set at the highest power setting. Make sure you make the repair metal at least 1/3rd larger than the hole so you know you are getting good metal to weld to. Once I finished repairing the frame, I bought a gallon of Tremclad Flat black and brushed the entire frame. Then Undercoated the whole frame and underside of the body with rubberized asphalt undercoating. This is all good advice for a mechanically inclined, welder savvy, backyard hobby mechanic...if you are none of the above...see if there is a local shop in your area that could tackle it. I feel your pain though...it took me 3-4 months of just puttering in my garage to fix the frame...I had 2 quotes of $2500+ to have it fixed at a shop...so it may be a good time to learn from us guys on the forum who have been there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Mike is right. A lot of long nights under that truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosSaint Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Sure sounds like a lot of work! graduating in a few months as a mechanical engineer so I've got the mechanical inclination part down and I like pulling my truck apart to fix, so I've got that going for me. Welding... not so much. Sounds like I just need to get a hold of a welder, teach myself and then go to town on the Pathy. So, what about the internal parts of the frame? There are little holes (factory) scattered all over - for drainage I suppose? Is it best to literally box the entire/affected parts of frame in, leaving no openings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magregor Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I would leave the holes for sure! Best thing to do is once you start cutting the frame and repairing it...try and get as much of the flakes and build-up out of the inside of the frame, just to help drainage. It is also a help to find some way to wash out the inside of the frame with a water hose or compressed air or something....you could cover over the side holes (I did) and leave the ones on the bottom for drainage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPathyGo Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Another option to get some of the rust off is sandblasting. I've just started experimenting with this and the results are pretty good so far. A "sandblaster kit" is $30 at Sears. It's just a small metal gun with a hose and an adapter. Hook it up to an air compressor at 90 psi and use your preferred medium. I've tried play sand (Home Depot $3.5/50 lbs), quikrete coarse sand (same price or thereabouts), glass beads (much more expensive at $35/50 lbs but very effective) and black beauty (basically coal slag; $15/100 lbs). It cuts HOURS off sanding/cleaning/finishing/whatever time and allows me to get into spots that would have been a real pain with an orbital or mouse sander. Unless you're going to be using it regularly, buying an air compressor may not be worth it. But you should be able to rent one fairly easily. Something with a BIG tank is almost a requirement for sandblasting. At 90 psi, the air drains fast. The refill rate (cubic feet/min) is important but unless you want the compressor running all the time, the tank size is critical. I use a 33 gallon tank but it may not be too expensive to get something even bigger if you're renting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magregor Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I think that is all I need to complete my backyard garage is a decent sandblaster...Maybe for X-Mas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 hmm there should be an even number of shims under each bolt see if you can get an alignment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magregor Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 hmm there should be an even number of shims under each bolt see if you can get an alignment dido on that one for sure...It may have thrown out the alignment making it run a bit pigeon-toed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 dido on that one for sure...It may have thrown out the alignment making it run a bit pigeon-toed... Like my truck? I don't have any shims on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosSaint Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) It can be done! Went with 1/8" It looked and felt a bit thin but after it was all boxed in it was solid. Before After Before After Before. And yes, there is no side or bottom to that. Only a top and back side in the shape of an L After - Fresh steel! Edited January 16, 2011 by ChaosSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavefromOZ Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Awesome work mate, glad to see you didnt give up on her. How did you go with sorting out the front end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosSaint Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Awesome work mate, glad to see you didnt give up on her. How did you go with sorting out the front end? Thanks, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Hopefully it's a bit of encouragement to others that have bad frame rot. I replaced the passenger side tension/compression rod and bushings, inner and outer tie rods, and upper balljoints. I couldn't get the lower balljoints out though. They are stuck in there pretty good. I got an alignment not too long ago but it didn't seem to hold... I'm getting some really weird wear on my tires and still have a little shimmy-shake in the stearing, i think it was due to the big crack above where the compression rod bolts to the frame maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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