Starter Issues Once Again

[Mr. Pickles]

Just yanked mine for the 3 time in just over a year (first time, it bench tested fine at Autozone, put it back in and it failed miserably a couple days later). Thanks for lifetime warranties. No real meat to this post **(this is a lie- see below)**, just some rambling annoyance. Got that thing out quick this time though. I'd still love to bitch-slap the enginenerd that designed that fiasco.

Edited September 28, 2007 by Mr. Pickles

[RedPath88]

That sucks... keep this up and will have too appoint to as "The Official NPORA Starter Replacement Technician"!

[Mr. Pickles]

That sucks... keep this up and will have too appoint to as "The Official NPORA Starter Replacement Technician"!

 

Yeah, cause rolling around in my gravel driveway with 2 sprained ankles, a bruised heel, a banged up shoulder, and a dork light strapped to my forehead is exactly how I'd like to spend the rest of my days.

[RedPath88]

Three times in about a year, you say? Apparently that is exactly the way to like to spend your time

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Three times in about a year, you say? Apparently that is exactly the way to like to spend your time

 

 

Ok, update: put the new one in (lifetime warranty at Autozone), but nada. Took it back, they put it on the tester at Autozone, and it failed. The guy thought it was grounded internally or something, and was defective. Got another (should have had them test it there), put it in this morning, nada. WTF?!?!

 

Battery connections are clean & fine, connections at the starter are fine, fuses are good I believe. Anyone recall which would cover the starter, "engine control?" Does anybody remember the voltage required for the starter to turn? I've got 12.38 at the battery, 12.08 at the terminal on the starter. That seems fine with the drop, but I've got the battery on the charger now. Still, I tried the 50amp "charge" mode on the charger, and it wouldn't turn, so that's probably not it.

 

GRRR... any ideas? Let me know, I'm off to check my Haynes for what little good it will probably be. I'm gonna let that battery charge and go watch the Seahawks maul the Cardinals.

[Ultrafinder]

I just went through the same thing too. I tested 12 volts at starter everytime (even with the no starts). I did the relay upgrade and bought a new starter (auto zone). I was very frustrated at this point . You can understand. One thing I didnt think of because I always tested 12 V at starter. So, I figured what the hell I changed the Positive cable feed to it and Bam! everything fine. For some reason it wouldnt carry the amperage neccessary for the starter to spin. 12V did OK but, it couldnt handle the required amperage. I bought a new cable and havent had a problem since.. Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, update: put the new one in (lifetime warranty at Autozone), but nada. Took it back, they put it on the tester at Autozone, and it failed. The guy thought it was grounded internally or something, and was defective. Got another (should have had them test it there), put it in this morning, nada. WTF?!?!

 

Battery connections are clean & fine, connections at the starter are fine, fuses are good I believe. Anyone recall which would cover the starter, "engine control?" Does anybody remember the voltage required for the starter to turn? I've got 12.38 at the battery, 12.08 at the terminal on the starter. That seems fine with the drop, but I've got the battery on the charger now. Still, I tried the 50amp "charge" mode on the charger, and it wouldn't turn, so that's probably not it.

 

GRRR... any ideas? Let me know, I'm off to check my Haynes for what little good it will probably be. I'm gonna let that battery charge and go watch the Seahawks maul the Cardinals.

[Mr. Pickles]

I just went through the same thing too. I tested 12 volts at starter everytime (even with the no starts). I did the relay upgrade and bought a new starter (auto zone). I was very frustrated at this point . You can understand. One thing I didnt think of because I always tested 12 V at starter. So, I figured what the hell I changed the Positive cable feed to it and Bam! everything fine. For some reason it wouldnt carry the amperage neccessary for the starter to spin. 12V did OK but, it couldnt handle the required amperage. I bought a new cable and havent had a problem since.. Hope this helps.

 

Yeah, that's an next step, the book lays out a few tests you can run to check the cables and such. I'm betting its another junk starter for some reason, something about the "made in Mexico" sticker on the side. I just want to make sure before pulling it yet again. Grrr

 

By the way, isn't there a starter relay only on auto trucks? That's what Haynes says.

[adamzan]

Are these genuine nissan starters? Or some el cheapo after market brand. My 93 starter went once when my dad owned the truck, hit it with a hammer and it'd go. Took it to the dealer, truck came back starting. Never had a problem since, and that was probably about 5 years ago now.

[Mr. Pickles]

Are these genuine nissan starters? Or some el cheapo after market brand. My 93 starter went once when my dad owned the truck, hit it with a hammer and it'd go. Took it to the dealer, truck came back starting. Never had a problem since, and that was probably about 5 years ago now.

 

Not Nissan, you're typical reman'd ones, from Autozone. I did the bang on it deal with the original one and that got me by a few times over a month or 2, but no luck now. One other thought the book brings up is maybe the ignition switch. Any ideas on testing it without tearing it all down? *back to football, and its raining outside*

[adamzan]

Not Nissan, you're typical reman'd ones, from Autozone. I did the bang on it deal with the original one and that got me by a few times over a month or 2, but no luck now. One other thought the book brings up is maybe the ignition switch. Any ideas on testing it without tearing it all down? *back to football, and its raining outside*

 

Maybe its time to bite the bullet and get one from nissan, sometimes there are junkyards that have parts already pulled and tested, I know theres one around here, but they hardly have any pathy parts.

[Simon]

I'd be willing to bet you haven't received that many defective starters. I'd assume getting lower amperage is somehow killing them. Try changing your cables as suggested.

[adamzan]

Heres a simple one that kept my mothers 89 mazda 929 from starting. The battery terminals were dirty, they didn't look it, but after a quick go with a wire brush, it was good to go again.

[Simon]

Battery connections are clean & fine, connections at the starter are fine, fuses are good I believe.

 

redfinder: Reading is key.

[k9sar]

I posted a starter solution a few months ago. Intermittent starting etc. Tracked down to some connection between the ig switch and the starter. Bypass wire installed and no issues since.

 

Might be worth searching for that thread since I forget where it is.

[Mr. Pickles]

I posted a starter solution a few months ago. Intermittent starting etc. Tracked down to some connection between the ig switch and the starter. Bypass wire installed and no issues since.

 

Might be worth searching for that thread since I forget where it is.

 

Thanks, this is the first thing I checked tonight on a full battery. Rigged up a long (15' or so circuit with a monster 12v LED so I could set it up under the hood and see it from the cab) test light to the solenoid wire, and it lit. Then I replaced the light with a meter and read about 11.5 volts. I think this would be acceptable drop given the long test circuit of only like 14 gauge wire for the circuit. So, seems good there.

 

Checked volts at the starter again, good. Checked a few other things, fine. Then I said screw it, if the starter is fried, I'm gonna "bench" test it to find out. Pulled it, ran jumpers for ground to the chassis, power and just touched off on the solenoid. The damn thing fired just fine and repeatedly.

 

So... a new + cable will go in, hopefully tomorrow, and I'm crossing my fingers. I might finally go ahead and replace the ground cable to the block too, just in case.

 

Thanks for the help, wish me luck.

[RedPath88]

I replaced mine a while back after some issues with power and because it had been cut down by prior owners and was a bit short.. Once I had it off stripped it back a couple of inches and found that the corrosion have worked it's way down the cable, but since it was inside the insulation, it was not visible before I stripped it.

 

I also replaced the neg cable since I was there anyway.

 

the new cables solved my problems.

[Mr. Pickles]

I replaced mine a while back after some issues with power and because it had been cut down by prior owners and was a bit short.. Once I had it off stripped it back a couple of inches and found that the corrosion have worked it's way down the cable, but since it was inside the insulation, it was not visible before I stripped it.

 

I also replaced the neg cable since I was there anyway.

 

the new cables solved my problems.

 

Egg-sactly. I specifically remember having to scrape and rub some of the corrosive crud off of my starter + cable last time around (last summer), can't believe it slipped my mind. Has anybody noticed where the ground connects to the block? Sorry, its dark as the inside of a cow outside. I had already been thinking earlier of one of those ricer grounding kits on feeBay, where you get a couple stranded negative straps. Couldn't hurt, really, especially with about 1800 watts of stereo grounded to the truck chassis.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Mr. Pickles

[RedPath88]

iirc, there is a stripped section of the neg cable just a little ways from the battery that is clamped and bolted to the body and then the cable continues on to the engine block... Right side, at the front... bolted to the block.

 

I ran the new cable to that point and left the section of the old that goes from the block to the body.

[Mr. Pickles]

iirc, there is a stripped section of the neg cable just a little ways from the battery that is clamped and bolted to the body and then the cable continues on to the engine block... Right side, at the front... bolted to the block.

 

I ran the new cable to that point and left the section of the old that goes from the block to the body.

 

Ah, saw the stripe from the neg post down. Cool, if anything, maybe I'll get an additional strap and go from there to another point. It should help more than hurt, I'd think.

[systemf]

I Have had tons of starts problems on my R50 as well (same starter) with AutoZone starters.

 

When turning the key I would just get a click when the start was hot, when it was cold it would start most of the time instead of just clicking.

 

It turns out the solenoid was engaging, but no juice or not enough was getting to the starter.

 

I took out the new AutoZone starter with the problems and took apart the solenoid.

 

Then I removed all of the grease in the solenoid and replaced with WD40, yes I know not a lubricant but it enhances conductivity and repels water.

 

I reassembled the starter and haven't yet had a problem (knock on wood). It seems that most of the AutoZone starters have crappy solenoids.

 

Note: I had already replaced all cables and the starting battery.

[Mr. Pickles]

I Have had tons of starts problems on my R50 as well (same starter) with AutoZone starters.

 

When turning the key I would just get a click when the start was hot, when it was cold it would start most of the time instead of just clicking.

 

It turns out the solenoid was engaging, but no juice or not enough was getting to the starter.

 

I took out the new AutoZone starter with the problems and took apart the solenoid.

 

Then I removed all of the grease in the solenoid and replaced with WD40, yes I know not a lubricant but it enhances conductivity and repels water.

 

I reassembled the starter and haven't yet had a problem (knock on wood). It seems that most of the AutoZone starters have crappy solenoids.

 

Note: I had already replaced all cables and the starting battery.

 

Cool, thanks. Yeah, I'm sure their starters aren't great, as the one I pulled (1 year old rebuild) as well as the crap replacement failed their test, and even tripped the circuit breaker in their store. LOL, they had to run back to the panel and flip the breaker! Anyways, I'll end up with a 9mo. old battery, new starter, and new cables, my recently installed oil filter relocation kit to keep the oil and crud out of the starter in the first place. Should be good to go. Sheesh.

 

Picked up the + cable for now, along with a brass monster terminal I've had for stereo and accessory hook-ups. The Neg one will follow, hopefully in multiples from the block and body to the battery. I'd be at it, but now I've (and the wife) managed to pick up a pretty decent cold and fever, and its getting chilly in the evening with on and off drizzle rain outside. Welcome to fall. So, Saturday is the target day, assuming I'm functional by then. Then its time to replace the outer CV boots both sides, the passenger frame mount for the sway bar (mangled the driver's one, this one might be able to be bent back), tie rod ends (sitting on a shelf), maybe install the headers before it gets too cold... sheesh. This has been an interesting summer.

[Mr. Pickles]

Ok, this is getting F'ing retarded for a no-start situation. Pulled, re-did/replaced the + cable harness. All + connections are clean, clear, brand new, and good to go. Check. Power is good. Starter is reinstalled. *nothing* What the F. Tomorrow the starter is going back to Autozone to get tested, and I'll probably replace the Neg cable just because. Sorry for the delay, I've been down with a cold for a bit.

[Mr. Pickles]

Ok, back at it, this thing is starting to annoy me. Been busy out of town, work, and sick. Anyways, here's where I'm at.

 

Full battery

Solenoid: power to it is fine, a bit over 12V IIRC at the plug at the starter when the ignition is turned

Replaced both + & - battery cables just in case, and they test fine

Starter removed again and bench tested both at Autozone and under my hood with jumpers, works fine

Connections cleaned

Under dash fuses checked (not sure which if any under hood, but with the power good at the starter, that shouldn't be a problem, right?

 

So, I'm suspecting K9sar's suggestion, gonna look for his post. I've pulled the column apart, and one reason I'm suspecting this is, I was just in there about a month ago replacing the headlight switch, so maybe something got buggered up. This is the view of the back of the ignition (respect mah Paint skillz!)

 

 

The connections tested as follows:

 

Off:

White/Red 12.33 volts (constant power)

Everything else... nothing

 

Acc:

White/Red 12.12

Black/Yellow nothing

Black/White 0.02

Black/Green -0.01

Blue 12.07

 

On:

White/Red 11.99

Black/Yellow nothing

Black/White 11.95

Black/Green -0.01

Blue 11.91

 

Ignition on:

White/Red 12.05

Black/Yellow 12.05

Black/White 11.86

Black/Green 12.05

Blue 0.03

 

Just posting this in case anybody has a clue or has any tests up their sleeves. I've just got my basic Haynes manual, so I'm about to trace out these wires and scratch my head a bit.

 

*insert wild ideas here*

 

[88pathoffroad]

I didn't see anything posted about the solenoid trigger wire, perhaps I missed it. Do the relay and solenoid wire work as prescribed?

[Mr. Pickles]

I didn't see anything posted about the solenoid trigger wire, perhaps I missed it. Do the relay and solenoid wire work as prescribed?

 

Sorry, that's what I meant by the wire to the solenoid, the small one that plugs in under that little metal sheild on top. Yes, it fires a test light when the ignition is turned on, and read over 12v on the meter. I had read that there was no relay on a manual tranny truck, but could be mistaken. In any event, yes, there is juice there.

Edited September 29, 2007 by Mr. Pickles