hawairish

I wouldn't downplay force. In fact, I think it's way more than we might expect, but I don't know how to quantify it. Think about when you're cornering...the truck wants to roll. The suspension on the outside of the turn bears weight, but the suspension on the opposite side of the vehicle does nothing to counteract it. The sway bar (I mean anti-sway bar) bears the weight on both sides...one side wants to compress the end link, and the other wants to extend. Faster speed around the corner, exponentially more force. In experience, I've actually busted a nut (uh, yes, final answer) off a shaft-style end link (like the upper part of the rear link) on my Frontier. Not sure how, but did. So I assume the force to be significant. Exactly.

Again, sorry if I came off harsh. Definitely not my intention, just saying that this thread and the previous haven't really shown us anything. You've lifted your truck, but it's a mystery how, and I'm puzzled what the point really is if you're not willing to share more details. But you see how details just kind of trickle out, right? There's been no mention of dropping the diff. I'm very familiar with what it takes to drop the subframe, and many other components, having done all that work personally (a couple times actually). I'm very curious to know how you've accomplished it...not to bash you on how to did it, but because I'm genuinely interested to know how you solved this or that problem. I spent months hammering out tiny details just for a trivial 2.5" SFD, but I don't question its integrity at all. I think there's an upper limit using this approach, though. Ok, so you dropped the control arm points and the differential, but obviously couldn't drop the steering rack any further because it sits above the crossmember. But why did you go this route instead of just redoing the subframe spacers? At that point, you have far more room to "safely" brace components. I'd imagine that you could build LH and RH frames (as opposed to individual spacers) that also lower the strut tower position (tied into the OE perches). By keeping the subframe completely intact, you wouldn't have to play with the OE geometries, but now you've got geometries that might be out of spec. It's good you're not seeing bumpsteer, but I'd still be cautious. Those full-size large 6"-8" lift kits are fundamentally no different than a subframe drop: Big brace = subframe spacers New spindles = strut spacers Nothing about the stock geometry changes, which I think is the best way to approach it if you just want lift. As for no vehicle being designed for lifting, I'd disagree. As for vehicles being designed to be lifted 9"-12", I totally agree for just about anything lacking straight axles (except older Fords with the I-beam style front axles like Rangers and Explorers). Nothing impossible, just some ways are better than others. In all seriousness, I'd love to see more pictures and have this be something we see more of down the line. Again, it's the whole "building it up for the next owner" thing that baffles me. When I sold my Jeep...I pulled off lift springs, sliders, guards...everything...because they added nominal value to the trade-in. Then I sold everything to Joe Jeeper for as much as I paid for them (if not more). That's where the diminishing returns comment came in. Wouldn't it be reasonable to focus your energy and money on the next project?

Thoughts: 1. Ideally, I'd like to have a no-drill solution for both front and rear. Problem is that the 3/8" components are a little smaller in all proportions to the 1/2" links. That means a thinner threaded rod (and thinner than OE), but also about 1" more exposed thread than if it were 1/2". It seems plausible that a 3/8" link might be weaker than OE. As such, a 1/2" link seems more appropriate for the rear, even if it requires drilling holes wider. (The fronts will be 1/2") 2. Conveniently, 1/2" components are cheaper than 3/8" no matter how you spin it, so I will go the 1/2" route front and rear. 3. MCP has this little blurb on their Warranties page: "Ball Joints (ie: ES, ESA, Qi, SQi series, etc.) are very light duty; they are typically used only in hand or foot actuated linkages." I'm struggling a little with this one. Steinjager was born from MCP...it actually says that on their website. So why would I think that MCP sells a "very light duty" component that isn't suitable for the SJ link? The rest of their warranty page basically says, "don't quote us on strengths for anything we sell". 4. I didn't see much for reviews on the SJ links. There's a Youtube vid that a Jeeper posted up, but that guy also got completely (and unnecessarily) flamed by other Jeep f*ckheads for even putting disconnects on a Jeep (and that his frame was rusty). The problem with discos on a Jeep is that the wheel base and controls arms are too short, which leads to a higher potential of popping a spring on lifted Jeeps, and I think that's the point they were (poorly) trying to make. I think it's less of a problem for us, but I'm open to concerns. This can only be tested to some degree on a shop floor. 5. I was exploring 1/8" wire rope (i.e., steel cable, steel lanyard) options looped through a u-bolt plate/strap with some bends on it. This would attach with the hardware and would only come into play when the link is removed. I'd have to sketch this out so you have a better idea of its shape/function. On a side note...maybe we should ask a moderator to rename this thread in the spirit of DIY disconnects?

The front driveshaft doesn't articulate, and is above the plane between the control arms' rear mounts...so why'd you go over the driveshaft? I also agree with XPLORx4...I think you will have a lot of bumpsteer and it will track poorly, with high probability of bent tie-rods. Still, why go through all this effort if you're trying to sell it? I really think you've reached the point of diminishing returns. We'd get it if you were planning to keep it and wheel it, but that doesn't seem to be the case. To be frank, I've not seen anything that would make me trust your setup, and nothing about this post or the previous 9" Lift! posts seems to make sense to me. I want to be awed, but it hasn't happened. I totally get what you're trying to do and how to accomplish it, but I have serious concerns that it's being done correctly or safely, and I think (hope) the community feels this way. You're flaunting that you've got some ungodly amount of lift on a vehicle that responds poorly to, and is simply not designed for, ungodly amounts of lift without real fabrication. Yet you're completely vague on the details, and the pics just leave us hanging. Either you lack pride and ingenuity in your work, or you secretly acknowledge it might not be safe, but hey: 12" Lift! Again, I really don't want to sound like a dick here (and maybe it's too late for that), but I hope this doesn't see action on the road anytime soon. If my intention was to sell two trucks, I'd be returning one to stock height, selling both separately as-is (or scrapping the donor), selling a tire/wheel package for a pretty penny to some Chevy/Toyota guy, and scrapping some steel. In a dream world, I'd have sold the donor truck, pulled the subframe, and begun SAS'ing it.

I presume the tolerance will be snug, so minimal noise if any. But, I'd plan on greasing the sockets regardless, which will suppress noise. The OE rear links are 7-1/8" (effective length from bottom of perch to socket center), and the front links are 7-1/2" socket center-center. The actual length of the completed link will be longer than those values, of course. The precision of the length is somewhat arbitrary, though. For the rear, the effective length should technically increase equally with the amount of lift. In the front, the effective length should change by the amount of lift (strut spacers and coils) less subframe drop height (for those with SFDs, of course). Both calculations put the sway bar at stock angles. In my case, I'll probably make my rear links about 2" longer, but the fronts will stay the same length. But really, the stock rear length appears fine, so maybe I won't change it much. I'm crunching the numbers now. The thread depth of the joints don't allow much for adjustable length, but I don't see that as necessary. The crappy part is that even if I order these up soon, I won't be able to touch them for a couple weeks due to work travel.

LOL: These guys are 5 blocks from each other. Midwest Control Products Corp., 590 East Main Street, Bushnell, IL 61422 USA Steinjäger, Inc. Hwy 9 West Box 299, Bushnell, IL 61422 Anyone want me to make some extra sets? Volume discounts!

I was thinking a pool noodle or pipe insulation and duct tape...pad up the hoop and let it rest on the differential. But, I'm convinced that a strap/cable would work just fine. I'll have to rig up a model of some sort to confirm. BUT DUDE: DIY DISCONNECTS! I Googled "ball joint quick disconnects" on a hunch. That first pic I posted (made by Steinjäger) appears to have been made entirely by parts from Midwest Control. They have an impression selection, detailed website, and do online orders. So, here's what I'm thinking... 2x QIL375 180° @ $12.66/ea for the upper rear perches: http://www.midwestcontrol.com/part.php?id=128 2x QI375 90° @ $3.45/ea for rear sway bar http://www.midwestcontrol.com/part.php?id=115 4x QI500 @ $3.76/ea for the fronts http://www.midwestcontrol.com/part.php?id=116 The OE rear links have 10mm studs and fronts are 12mm. These rears would be 3/8-24 (9.5mm) and 1/2-20 (12.7mm). You'd barely need to enlarge the front sway bar eyelets a trivial amount. They have metric disconnects, too (see QM10 and QM12), but not for the 180° joint; metrics are also a little more expensive, but not by much. They sell threaded linkages, but with an LH and RH thread. I didn't see any disconnects as LH thread, though. I sent them an email to see if they do RH/RH links, since their links look better than a simple threaded rod, and they do various lengths for a couple bucks each. They also sell the jam nuts. We're looking at $50 in parts for front AND rear links! Midwest also sells heim joints so you could make your own link exactly like the Steinjäger ones. Assuming the parts are the same, I think these will also have plenty of strength. Since these can be removed/installed with one hand, I also did a simple test: I can touch the ends of each link on my truck by just reaching around the tire. And that's without having to lay on the ground. All that remains on after the link is disconnect are little ball joint studs and the limit straps. The link disconnects in one piece. Something tells me I'm making a purchase tonight. I'll probably go with 1/2-20 (QI500/QIL500) all around so I can just buy a 2' length of threaded rod, cut it down, maybe sleeve it with heat shrink or flexible tubing to keep the elements off it. Their volume discounts even start at 2 pieces. I'm gonna be losing sleep tonight thinking about how bad ass this is going to be! (Sorry for the long post...excited.)

I'm glad you're open to the suggestions and constructive criticism here. And definitely don't get me wrong...I totally applaud the effort. We'd need to see better pics of how you did the strut spacers, subframe spacers, and rear control arm blocks to give good feedback. I'm particularly curious to see how you spaced the rear control arm bushings. Did you just do individual spacers, or a full-length tube between the two? The latter would be a good way to achieve the 'missing link', but could also be a tie-in point for running support tubes to some point near the transmission crossmember mounting bolts. I think you basically just need a way to support your stilt-like stance, evident from the front-side pic. That's the pic that shocks me the most.

You have to pin it to whatever the sway bar is mounted to, otherwise you're not defeating the sway bar. My plan was to fab a ~6" or so bracket and attach it at the bolt just below the spring (one of the bolts that secures the sway bar to the axle). That way I'd disconnect from the upper perch and attach to the bracket. But while taking this pic, it might actually be a minor pain to conn/disconn. For sure, you'd have to be on the ground to do it, and would have to reach a point that's nearly an arm's length away. Perhaps another approach is in order... I think the solution is some sort of limiting strap, like a nylon strap or rope with eyelets. They'd connect between the chassis/perch and sway bar end at the same or similar points as the disconnect link. When the link is in place, the strap has no effect. When removed, the straps will prevent the sway bar ends from dipping lower, but without inhibiting either end from traveling up when the truck is flexing (1 wheel up, 1 wheel down). When the truck is level, the bar will return to level. This approach would need the link to be removed or pinned to something. The nice part about this approach is that the link (if it stayed connected to the sway bar) could just be strapped to the sway bar itself. The limiting straps wouldn't need to be nearly as robust as true limiting straps. Not sure I've seen a setup like this, either. Some kits come with nylon strapping, but it's for pinning up the disconnected link.

Good luck!

I've come to that same conclusion. But, I've never seen disconnects sold just as one, so there must be something fundamental or cool about having a pair. I don't see any problem with just having one attached, except a possibility that under some flex, the sway bar hits the top of the 3rd member, or swings backwards and hits brake lines or LSV components. I don't have a LSV so the latter isn't applicable to me. Yep, that would work on the rear. I've seen cheaper variants, but basically the studded could attach to the upper perch on the truck and disconnects at the sway bar. But this is why I'd prefer the disconnect to stay connected to the sway bar end and detach from the upper perch: This way you can pin the sway bar to a 3rd point somewhere on the axle.

It's a miracle! But, to adamzan's point, did you use OE rubber bushings or poly? If you did poly, and you greased them up right, then you can torque them while still in the air. If you did OE rubber, then adamzan is right...gotta torque them on the ground and normal load. However, I'm not sure it would've had the effect you experienced...if you torqued them while in the air, the preload on the bushings would've helped lift it, not cause it to sag.

I don't have firsthand experience, but I wasn't impressed by them. The design (and at that price) solves more problems than it creates. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about having to drill the sway bar if you plan to return to stock. The stock hole is 10mm, and you're increasing it a little under 3mm. There will be a little wiggle room, but adding a flat washer on the link side will help sandwich the sway bar end appropriately. What I don't like about the link is that once you've disconnected it, there's nothing that stops the sway bar from rotating downward about 30-40° to the point where the upper hoop of the sway bar is resting on the 3rd member and the sway bar ends are sitting a few inches lower than the axle and snagging on rocks. There needs to be a way to anchor the end of the disconnect to the axle so it doesn't interfere with anything. I also why I don't see the need for 4 disconnect points. Just more parts to take off. A lot of Jeep ones have brackets/straps so you can pin everything up, which I like. I wonder about noise, too....D-clips and metal-metal contact everywhere. I've been eyeballing something like this: http://midwestjeepwillys.com/j0031036-wrangler-jk-disconnect-rear-sway-bar-links-2-5-lift.html They're adjustable length, the link stays attached to the sway bar, and it it's a one-hand, no-loose-parts disconnect. You'd need some sort of L bracket on the upper mount for the ball head bolt to attach to, and an extra set of ball head bolts and another custom bracket on the axle to attach to so that it stays out of the way. This is also $50 cheaper than the AC, which I think are just universal parts from Warrior Products. This particular link style would work on the fronts as-is I think, but it depends on if the quick-release head rotates at all. Otherwise, there are a few Rough Country ones that could work well, too, just need create a bracket for mounting them to the upper link perches. They're also much cheaper than others. http://www.roughcountry.com/suspension-components/sway-bar-kits.html?limit=21

Yeah, I gotta echo Kingman's concerns while trying to not be a dick. Even after those points he mentioned are addressed, you've added a lot more leverage by lowering the control arm points. The pictures don't give nearly enough details as to how, but it doesn't look like there's anything that improves how the subframe is secured to the unibody, like lateral tie-in bars that connect further under the chassis to reduce flex or distribute load. It just seems like a house of cards waiting to topple. Since you had previously stacked SFD spacers (and consequently added additional hardware), you've really just put a lot more stress on those components. My worry is that a good forward bump at the wheels will just pop some nuts off (best case scenario); this could be as simple as coming down a hill and meeting flat surface, where much of the body weight is focused over the front suspension. If those don't give, the unibody pays the price by flexing more than it was intended to. If you're selling it, though, why put the extra energy/money into lifting it more, anyway? I mean, I hope you find the right buyer, but I think you may already be limiting your target audience. Is it also a package deal that they take your other PF?

Yep, alignment pins = dowels. That's about as accurate as I could have described it. It wasn't fun. I could've added "prison-inmate" somewhere in there. You may just need to find a way to support the transmission loosely enough to allow pitching/rolling/lifting it to get the angle right. I had to lift the rear of the transmission more than I expected, then it just slid right in to a decent gap and I used the bolts to draw it closed.

I think I misread your original post. You're just looking for a way to close the gap between your transmission and engine so you can bolt them back together? Do the motor mounts connect to the subframe without issue? Is it possible you just need to rotate the input shaft a little to get them to line up, or maybe adjust the insertion angle? With the transmission crossmember off, how are you supporting the transmission? Can you see any alignment pins that might be out of line? I had a similar problem when changing a Frontier clutch long ago. I had to upside-down-bear-hug-dry-hump-lift-twist the transmission to get the splines to line up and close the gap. It doesn't take much of an angle to prevent it from sliding forward apparently.

Motor mounts are the same on each side, and there's really only one way to mount them. One side has a stud and an alignment nub, the other side has two studs. The two studs point straight down, but the alignment nub would prevent mounting them incorrectly on the engine brackets. However, judging by the image below, the brackets (11232 and 11233) are side-dependent, but I'd be surprised if they had the same bolt patterns. They might have some stamp indicating side (LH, RH) or direction (arrow towards front of vehicle). If those are right, maybe you just need to loosen the transmission mount and shift the engine over, then re-tighten the mount?

My vehicle made the air bag recall list finally. Might want to check yours out at the link above.

Woodward is where I bought my link, and also what Kr sells.

Yes. You basically have three options: 1. KRFabs #1. Don't use the included strut spaces, but use the subframe/motor mount spacers and steering link. Keep existing OME springs and strut spacers. 2. KRFabs #2. Use entire kit and stock springs. Don't use OME springs or current strut spacers. 3. Custom SFD. Fab what you need, keep everything you currently have, for half what the KRFab kit costs. Keep in mind you'll still need to fab a spacer if you want to keep your purdy skid plates (#3 includes instructions on how to keep that and still under $250). I'm crafting a PM response with the details. Sit tight.

Did you get my PM? I won't be able to kit one for you before your trip, but I'll give you all the details you need.

Yup, you need an SFD.

And hey, while you've got that bumper off still, mind taking some basic measurements? Maybe... 1. Full width 2. Distance between the outside of the mounting tabs (i.e., space between mounting tabs + 2x tab thickness)

About the washer bottle...I know theexbrit mentioned that it would look pretty stupid hanging low, but it reminded me of those Calmini prototype pics that XPLORx4 posted long ago. On the pic of their front bumper, they just spray painted the thing. It still hung down, but was much less conspicuous. I'm sure it will be hanging down more with the RC bumper, but maybe explore that option?

Here you go! http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/36674-xj-cherokee-bumper-mod/?hl=%2Bcherokee+%2Bbumper While connecting some other dots, I saw that he indicates that the width for the XJ mounts are the same for his R50, while Precise1 noted in another thread that he put a brush guard for an older R50 onto his newer one (or maybe it was the other way around). In terms of mounting width, I interpret it as XJ = R50. I think you meant Rough Country for your bumper, right? P/N 1057? If so, it's what theexbrit got (linked in his thread). One major advantage to this particular bumper is that the mounting brackets are separate pieces. So even if the widths weren't the same, you could mount the brackets inside or outside of the tabs, and even use plate steel to adjust the width further (to an extent). Keep us posted!