Which Winch ? A Hitch Winch !

[DoctorBill]

My brother-in-law told me about an idea for setting up a Winch such that one can

store the winch inside the Vehicle to keep thieves from taking it.

 

At least for smaller winches...

 

I have dubbed it "The Hitch Winch" for lack of a better name.

 

I had a piece of steel plating used for machine walk spaces of about 1/8 inch thickness.

 

I drilled it out and mounted a Harbor Freight 3,000 lb electric winch on the plate

and then mounted a trailer hitch to the plate.

 

The Hitch Winch is thus portable from vehicle to vehicle and will face the direction

in which the cable is put.

 

This one has a Radio Control allowing one to stand away from the winch for safety.

 

This is my first winch - ever ! A winch virgin...or virgin winch...

 

Now I have to set up some 10 gauge wires to the Battery and a plug type 'thingamabob'....

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone done this before ? I'm sure it is nothing new under the sun....

 

Half Inch #8 Bolts on the Hitch and the Bolts that came with the $75 Winch.

 

Some folks might want to mount the Winch directly to a receiver bar - different strokes for different folks...

 

This winch is not a big powerful monster like some I have seen - and this setup will rotate to the direction

of pull. Less wear and tear on the cable and on the cable rollers.

 

Just don't do anything stupid with it...!

 

Take it or leave it - your choice.

 

DoctorBill

EDITED IN 16 Sept - The concensus is (after many posts) that this is a BAD IDEA. Dangerous.

 

So I disassembled it.

 

Not much point reading further except as regards safety while winching.

 

I want to thank the folks who were concerned about my safety and posted here.

 

DoctorBill

Edited September 16, 2009 by DoctorBill

[GrimGreg]

They make a mount that will slide right into a 2" class III receiver hitch. There is a chance of the winch popping off the hitch ball at an extreme angle with your setup. Here is the WARN one:

 

[nunya]

I like the setup people do that actually goes into the reciver. Especially usefull for people who set up front and rear recivers. That might have some stability issues beign on the trailer ball, lots of movement I would think...

[Nytrosfinder]

Ingenuity at its finest!

 

I might recommend getting a better trailer hitch ball!

 

I know Reese makes one rated for 5,000 and 10,000lbs...

[DoctorBill]

If a trailer hitch can pull a huge Boat or camping trailer or utility trailer full of gravel,

then this hitch and ball ought to work fine.

 

I am worried more about the steel plate - is it thick enough ?

 

I don't intend to pull anything like huge bolders or tree stumps or such.

 

Probably more the ocasional small car out of a ditch in winter.

 

If the pull is really strong, I'd imagine the Pathfinder will slide.

 

Of course, I am new to winches.

 

Never had one.

 

Had a friend who would use his HUGE front bumper mounted winch on a Chevy 4x4

on stuff that scared the hell out of me.

 

Has anyone ever seen a steel cable snap ?

 

Heard it can cut a person in half...!

 

...or are those stories for around the campfire to frighten young children ?

 

DoctorBill

 

PS - The Warn 2" "MultiMount Receiver" which GrimGreg showed in Post #2 above costs $329.68 UPSGround to Spokane, WA.

"Bill,

The Warn Multi-Mount is for a 2" receiver. The price shipped to your door is $329.68.

Nick Hartman nhartman@unitedwebsales.com

United Web Sales

(800)337-9005 ex 3222

Mon - Fri 7 am to 4 pm PST"

Edited September 17, 2009 by DoctorBill

[nunya]

Has anyone ever seen a steel cable snap ?

 

Heard it can cut a person in half...!

 

...or are those stories for around the campfire to frighten young children ?

 

DoctorBill

Oh they can snap and they can be deadly results...

[DoctorBill]

What is the "Best Way" to wire this Winch up ?

 

What gauge wire should I use - 10 gauge?

 

One RED wire and use the frame for ground ?

 

Where to run the wire?

 

How to make a connector for the winch ?

 

A knife switch at the Battery or have something like Jumper Cable clamp

stored near the battery but not hooked up ?

 

An 'in line' fuse ? What amperage ?

 

Ideas would be nice ?

 

DoctorBill

[joshellis]

A common formula for winch choice, assuming its purpose is to extricate the vehicle, is to double the GVW and then add 25%. This allows for overcoming terrain resistance, or 'the degree to which you are stuck.'

 

So a 4000lb Pathfinder, I would go a 9-1000lb winch personally.

 

I've read good things about rear mounted winches, they make logical sense in some situations, a lot of the time the only way out is back, instead of through. I think cable failure is very rare, although draping a old towel over the tensioned line should be standard procedure in any winching operation. At least this will absorb a lot of tension in the unlikely event of breakage. I believe the electric motor will generally give out before the cable does.

 

Years ago we had a Warn 6000lb on a Series 3 Land Rover, as it took up strain the motor would whir at a lower and lower pitch. At around 6000lb load it would shut itself off. This wasn't nearly enough HP to remove the truck from some situations.

 

Other trick, assuming you have enough cable, is to use a shackle & pulley-block to run the line around the recovery anchor and back to your vehicle. This will effectively double your winches pulling power.

[Simon]

I would NOT use that setup. I've seen winch bumpers flex under the stress of a winch, and I'm sure they can handle much higher forces than that trailer tongue. I'd hate to see the setup come flying off towards whatever you're winching at a high rate of speed. The 2" receiver type mount offers a lot more stability for winching.

 

Yes, a cable can break, and they do. It's ugly when it happens. The winch won't be the first to break, as it's the cable that fatigues/kinks/frays over time and snaps.

 

No offense intended, but I find there are a lot of people who don't respect the amount of energy produced by a winch, which is then stored in the cable. I'd hate to hear of an injury, or property damage because of a weak setup, or someone not taking the proper safety precautions while winching.

[GoPathyGo]

Very ingenuous.

 

That said, I can see a few weak points. There are 3 possible points of failure - the winch attachment to the plate, the plate to the ball, the ball to the receiver. Given the angle it's mounted at, I suspect the plate/ball attachment would shear off under strain. Winching uses a great deal of energy, as Simon and the others point out. A strong male can bench press 250 lbs. A mid-size winch can pull 9,000 lbs. Not the best metaphor but you get the idea. In addition to that, the hitch receiver itself can fail and come flying off.

 

Incidentally, I actually own a Warn Multi-Mount (pictured above). It is a solid, thick metal cradle that actually surrounds the winch to brace it and prevent it from flying off. The cradle weighs 30 lbs and Warn will not sell it for winches rated above 9k. This is a company for whom winches and truck parts are bread-and-butter.

 

I know there's a lot of hearsay out there about winches. But I assure you the danger is very very real. I think you should view these, particularly the first one.

 

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I think you're right to be proud of your invention. But I would suggest NOT using it. Ever. It is not safe, for you or anyone else around. That's just my opinion.

[OldSlowReliable]

things that could go wrong and kill someone

 

The bolts could shear through that diamond plate stuff and send the winch flying

 

That trailer ball isn't meant to have 5000lbs of stress pulled on it.....its meant to pull a 5000lb trailer on wheels, which is significantly less force than that of a stuck truck.

 

That thin thin wire could snap (go to a jeep jamboree, you will see atleast 3 winch cables break on those really expensive rigs and winches)

 

Any one of those 4 bolts that mount the winch to the plate don't look like grade 8, and they could easily sheer themselves or tear through that thin mounting plate

 

That silver ball receiver part is NOT rated to have that kind of force on it.

 

The hitch tube itself for the hitch ball looks homemade, and it sure doesn't look like enough bracing and weld contact is there to stop that from just ripping off

 

 

 

 

Of course these are worst case and all, but if any one of them happens you could kill someone. Don't think about how your willing to take the risk, worry about the people you may be offering a hand to....

 

Plus, that winch is not rated for anything it would be useful for really, anything that you would need that 3k lb winch for, you could just as easily strap a recovery strap on your tow hook and do it safely and securely. You can't use it for your own recovery or the recovery of others, and same deal with moving stuff around the farm or whatever....

 

Sure you could use it to say pull a dead vehicle up the driveway or something with that weight rating, but at that point you could just as easily spend 20 bucks for beer and get a few buddies....

 

The only thing those are good for are for things like flatbed trailers, bolting to the garage floor (pulling vehicles into the garage), ATV's, Dunebuggies, and other little things

 

 

sorry, but you can always keep it for something like i said above

[Kingman]

You know, most of the time all it takes to get a vehicle unstuck is just a little tug. I've seen simple 2500lb quad winches pull mid size trucks out of holes. All it took was that little tug to pull the tires to traction, which is usually only a foot or so.

 

Rarely ever are you so stuck that you need to literally transplant the vehicle to a different location...

[Jeenyus]

yeah, I'd say the winch to ball setup is a bit of a risk, 2" receiver mount is better....

 

I agree on the dangers of a cable snapping, coming from my hookin chokers experience they're a very deadly thing and when any cable breaks it can be hell....since it can go in any direction at a very high rate of speed and will demolish anything in its path

[joshellis]

You know, most of the time all it takes to get a vehicle unstuck is just a little tug. I've seen simple 2500lb quad winches pull mid size trucks out of holes. All it took was that little tug to pull the tires to traction, which is usually only a foot or so.

 

Yeah thats actually a good call sometimes a little nudge is all you need.

 

And about cable breakage - sure I stand corrected... of course they break but I think this is largely preventable with rigorous and obsessive maintenance and sense/judgement. Selecting a strong enough cable, examining/cleaning the cable frequently, replacing it after 10-20 heavy recoveries. Setting it up correctly - avoiding downward pressure as it winds in, winching in a straight line, etc. A lot of line breakages happen because people exceed manufacturer load ratings. I feel like if the winch is nearing full load, the motor will generally give you an indication. If you ignore that and then push it further then I guess something has to give.

 

Another option is nylon rope which some report as working really well.

Edited September 16, 2009 by joshellis

[beastpath]

You don't seriously think you are actually pull anything with a 3 thousand pound winch...hahahaha, most cars are well over that let alone the extra forces of a stuck vehicle. That's actually really funny. Me and my buddies are gonna have a good laugh about that.

 

Sorry to tear you up....but if you are seriously an educator of sorts then god help our children.

 

way to not be helpful.

 

 

the 2x the weight of the vehicle is about right for which winch you get. Neat idea to hook it up, but I personally wouldn't feel safe using it at all.

this thread has a lot of good info on it though! especially about cables.

[Precise1]

It's all been said by now but I will second this....

 

Another option is nylon rope which some report as working really well.

 

I just bought a used bumper and winch. I haven't gotten the winch to work yet, but I can see the cable is pinched on the spool. Depending what inspection reveals, I may just replace it with a synthetic rope. Just as strong, lighter and easier to use and much safer in the event of line (not hardware) failure.

 

Points for the effort Doc, but I strongly recommend revisiting that design/function.

 

B

[Simon]

I will be replacing my winch cable with synthetic as soon as I see any signs of significant wear. I'm just too cheap to do away with perfectly good cable..

[Terrano1992]

way to not be helpful.

Why not? It can be usable as a rear winch. 3000 lb pull (6000 lb with pulley block) will be enough to put wheels into traction (combined forces of wheels and winch).

For front winch - yes, you need minimum 9000 lb (or 6000 with pulley block).

[DoctorBill]

First.

 

Winches seem inherently dangerous for the average amateur driver to have on a vehicle.

 

Second.

 

I have no plans to hook up big vehicles and try pulling them out of muddy streams or

pulling farm tractors out of fields.

 

Third.

 

Juvenile comments aimed at gratuitously insulting someone on this forum belong in a sleezie bar

somewhere in downtown Maple Ridge, BC. Being a "Troll" is the word for that kind of stuff.

 

First time I have seen such behaviour on this forum....too bad.

 

Fourth.

 

This winch will be used with great care with me far from it using the "Radio Control" device

and any bystanders beside me.

 

Fifth.

 

If one uses a Block & Tackle pulley system to up the power, the bolts and Bar and Ball would

be even more likely to break !

 

Sixth.

 

From the You-Tube movies posted, it is a wonder more people aren't hurt by Winches.

Some of the Liberal faithful should push for Legislation to make them illegal since "it is

for our own good..."

 

Thanks for the warnings, folks.

 

Since I was worried about a winch before this Thread (why I never had one until now),

I will use it seldom and VERY carefully.

 

DoctorBill

[Kittamaru]

Doc, ignore some of the less mature members here.

 

It IS a great idea, but there are some good points made here - that hitch ball was never designed for such forces - I doubt it'd hold up to even 3k pounds of force. Re-manufacture the design to slip into your hitch receiver and make sure you are using all high-quality metal and bolts. Be sure to do deep welds on all contact surfaces. Remember - if something breaks, it could EASILY go thru the windshield of the vehicle you're trying to tug out, and that is often the last thing a person wants to see (or will see).

[Terrano1992]

I will use it seldom and VERY carefully.

 

Bill, i think nobody here wants to disgrace you. But i agree with other members - ball (and ball receiver) are weakest points of your construction.

If you have a standard 2" square hitch receiver (with removable ball rod), i recommend to rebuild your construction. Create something similar to WARN "hitch-mounted winch". It will be stronger and safer. Free-shaking (rotating) winch under high load is a very dangerous device, believe me...

[Simon]

Bill, i think nobody here wants to disgrace you. But i agree with other members - ball (and ball receiver) are weakest points of your construction.

If you have a standard 2" square hitch receiver (with removable ball rod), i recommend to rebuild your construction. Create something similar to WARN "hitch-mounted winch". It will be stronger and safer. Free-shaking (rotating) winch under high load is a very dangerous device, believe me...

 

Well said!

[DoctorBill]

I agree, this is a weak setup. I knew that from the start.

 

But as my Brother-in-law just said when I told him about some of the comments

posted here, "Stupid is as stupid does."

 

It has a 3,000 lb toy winch on it - Harbor Freight $75 bought with a coupon for $59....

You can get hurt with a "Block and Tackle" hooked to a tree if you aren't careful !

 

I never intimated it was to be used as a construction winch to lift HumVee's off the docks.

 

Any winch, if used stupidly, is dangerous - that is intuitive.

 

Knowing Physics and Force vectors, I am going to be scared sh**less when I use it.

Even more so now that I have been thoroughly taken to the wood shed over it.

 

I have pulled dead shrubbery out of my yard with a chain wrapped around my trailer ball.

 

This seems a bit more sophisticated and has the added advantage of a "Radio Control"

where I can stand back far enough.

 

Pulling something really large (if one tries it) should probably employ a pulley attached to

a tree at an angle.

The ins and outs of Winch Use sounds like a good Thread Topic - since I am receiving quite

a lot of heated debate on this simple (minded?) idea.

 

I should say now, "...don't try this at home." like they do on the bottom of car ads on TV...

 

Maybe the Federal Government should make Harbor Freight pull all winches off the market....

We do need more Government Control, you realize.

 

Can this entire Thread be erased?

 

I wouldn't want to cause appoplexy. lol (just so everyone knows I am joking....)

 

DoctorBill

[GoPathyGo]

I'm sorry but I think you're being needlessly defensive. With the exception of ONE comment, which folks have called out, the tone has actually been remarkably constructive and helpful. People have gone to great lengths to explain WHY this would not work. Frankly, I think members are showing a great deal of concern and care. Far more than I have seen on other forums on the internet. Your long, highly defensive replies and unwillingness to accept you may be wrong reflect poorly on you, NOT on this forum. This is not a flame on you, it is merely a defense of this forum.

 

People are trying to HELP you and being nice about it. Getting angry because your toy doesn't work and asking it should all be erased is like a kid throwing a tantrum because his legos didn't work out. Get over it and don't risk lives and damage for the sake of ego. And don't grumble about a forum where people are trying their hardest to be helpful.

[DoctorBill]

Alright. I realize folks are being helpful - I am not blind. Maybe stupid....

 

I will take it apart in a while.

 

I discussed some reasons to use it. but you have all ultimately convinced me that it is

too dangerous to use for anything at all.

 

Maybe I should quit now while I only have about $90 into this winch and put it into

a box in the garage.

 

That Warn Hitch Insert from GrimGreg's post looks to be quite expensive and I would use a winch maybe once

every five years. I just bought it because it was on sale and I am obsessive compulsive.

 

Thank most all of you for your nice, well meaning posts trying to keep me from getting hurt.

 

I was not trying to be a butt, I just wanted to give some points about the design.

 

DoctorBill