msavides Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) Well, I have a choice between the 10.9 grade bolts I have or A2-70 stainless ones.Ok, here is some stuff I have learned... So, my A2-70 stainless bolt is almost at grade 5 SAE and should fail before aluminum threads, unlike the 10.9 (grade 9 equivalent). I'd much prefer the bolt to break before it strips out the hole (unlikely at so low of a torque)and the stainless characteristics should lessen the risk of that. $1.40 each so no big deal, I bet they work great!! B Speaking of Bolts. I did my headers over 2 years ago. I had problems with the collector bolts loosening up in as little as 2 days. NO matter what I did every couple of days they would loosen back up. I finally broke down and bought some stage 8 locking collector bolts. Have not had a problem since. http://www.stage8.com/products_lcb.html I also Used these split lock bolts for the header install. They have not loosened up at all I did not even need to re torque them after installation either. They were the perfect length. You just torque them and then set the locking screw. They will not come out. as a matter of fact if you set the locking screw it you will not be able to remove the bolt without loosening the set screw. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-20008/ Edited November 5, 2009 by msavides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks for the links, I will definitely keep them in mind incase I have trouble with the fasteners behaving themselves. Try to use torque extender instead of crowsfeet wrench on them bolts B..itll make your job a heck of a lot easier.I was able to do my wifes pathy without a lift with ease Thanks for the tip but on the 2 studs I practised on, I was able to remove the nuts without any real trouble just using an offset wrench and I'm pretty sure a deep dish socket will work fine as well. I was even able to remove a stud without removing the manifold so it will be much easier when it is out of the way. I have a set of crows foot wrenches just in case though. Oh, I have a 2" lift which dows help... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddirtyrake Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Stock exhaust manifolds will either have a brun or rust hole or be warped. The major benefit of headers (expecially the kind that I got) is that they are shiney... I kid you. The whole point is increased performance, as I'm sure you have noticed, these trucks are a bit low on power, so if you can get another 15hp from a full exhaust system, thats a 10% gain... B Nice, this path seems like a powerhouse compared to the pos I've been driving. I'm still driving a 2wd 95 ford ranger 4 cylinder. It's so slow, been extremely reliable other than getting stuck. If it was 4wd bigger cab and 6 cylinder I would just keep it, ohh wait I just described the new features of my pathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddirtyrake Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Stock exhaust manifolds will either have a brun or rust hole or be warped. The major benefit of headers (expecially the kind that I got) is that they are shiney... I kid you. The whole point is increased performance, as I'm sure you have noticed, these trucks are a bit low on power, so if you can get another 15hp from a full exhaust system, thats a 10% gain... B Nice, this path seems like a powerhouse compared to the pos I've been driving. I'm still driving a 2wd 95 ford ranger 4 cylinder. It's so slow, been extremely reliable other than getting stuck. If it was 4wd bigger cab and 6 cylinder I would just keep it, ohh wait I just described the new features of my pathy Man new manifolds are expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Man new manifolds are expensive Yeah, can be cheaper to go with headers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 Ok, so it all came apart text book. The passenger side was nice enough to grab all the studs at the nut and threaded right out. PO had been in the drivers side so all the studs were new and only 3 did not come out with the nut. Those came out easy using counter locking nuts. I really do not see why studs are specified. Ok, what I learned was: 1)You have to remove the passenger side manifold first to get the cross over pipe flange on the DS to clear the T-bar. Removing the manifolds from the engine bay is a challenge, there is little room. 2)Loosen the top fitting for the EGR tube to allow clearance and to help align the threads. It is a juggling act between the top and bottom EGR fittings and the header bolts. Bolt #4 is extremely hard to access and start. Patience and perhaps having someone with small hands try is recommended. 3)It is impossible to get a torque wrench (socket) on all the bolts. Practice your 'torque wrench' arm... So the DS is on and the PS will be an equal challenge; there is no EGR, but there is less room and all the AT/fuel lines in the way. Regardless, I'm happy with this so far. Hopefully the cross over and collector will play nice... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATHRIDER Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Speaking of Bolts. I did my headers over 2 years ago. I had problems with the collector bolts loosening up in as little as 2 days. NO matter what I did every couple of days they would loosen back up. I finally broke down and bought some stage 8 locking collector bolts. Have not had a problem since. http://www.stage8.com/products_lcb.html I also Used these split lock bolts for the header install. They have not loosened up at all I did not even need to re torque them after installation either. They were the perfect length. You just torque them and then set the locking screw. They will not come out. as a matter of fact if you set the locking screw it you will not be able to remove the bolt without loosening the set screw. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-20008/ Those set of bolts looks darn good but pricey though..Is that a reverse torx a t60 maybe?..Did you use thread lock on the set screw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATHRIDER Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Ok, so it all came apart text book. The passenger side was nice enough to grab all the studs at the nut and threaded right out. PO had been in the drivers side so all the studs were new and only 3 did not come out with the nut. Those came out easy using counter locking nuts. I really do not see why studs are specified. Ok, what I learned was: 1)You have to remove the passenger side manifold first to get the cross over pipe flange on the DS to clear the T-bar. Removing the manifolds from the engine bay is a challenge, there is little room. 2)Loosen the top fitting for the EGR tube to allow clearance and to help align the threads. It is a juggling act between the top and bottom EGR fittings and the header bolts. Bolt #4 is extremely hard to access and start. Patience and perhaps having someone with small hands try is recommended. 3)It is impossible to get a torque wrench (socket) on all the bolts. Practice your 'torque wrench' arm... So the DS is on and the PS will be an equal challenge; there is no EGR, but there is less room and all the AT/fuel lines in the way. Regardless, I'm happy with this so far. Hopefully the cross over and collector will play nice... B looking pretty good B..patience is the key on installing this headers..Thomas came over and helped me out on the egr fittings..we used a tiny pipe wrench and it worked out real good...its short but it has a big jaw opening...im assuming that youre also getting some new cat and muffler for that set up ...keep us posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 Agreed, patience is required!! It's really not that hard (so far), just some contortionist moves and some finesse. I recommend pulling up a shop stool and getting comfortable for some of the 1/8 turn wrench reversal games. Yeah, I have a 2" Magnaflow highflow cat with a 2.25" magnaflow cat back that will be installed to complete the set up. It should be a good set up... On my 95, the upper EGR fitting was handled with a 1/16" wrench (perfect fit) and the lower into the header was 15/16 (good fit) so I at least had wrenches that fit... Some additional tips for installation... 4) While it is infrequent, the occasional 3rd hand or eyeball would be very useful. There were a few times that I was juggling bolts and pipes and such that I wanted to grow one (or the other). 5) Bring all your ratchet sizes (1/4 and 3/8), extensions, universals, ratchet wrenches and palm drives. I have a fair assortment and used most of them at some point. There simply isn't much room to work in, so finesse is the game. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Though, mine aren't Thorley's, (Pacesetters) I too started on mine yesterday. I was lucky enough that I had only 2 broken studs. In both cases, I was able to weld a nut (fill weld) to the stud in the head, and then turn it out. Mine are complete, and I drove the truck last night, though, I do have a leak at the flange where the Pacesetter Y-pipe meets the rest of my exhaust. I will be tackling that today. All in all the install was not too bad, though the Pacesetters don't allow any more access to anything than the Thorley's. Torque arm is necessary here as well. I used the clamps provided for the kit, and tack welded the joints after clamping. It's still removable with only a minor amount of grinding. No leaks at the clamps at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATHRIDER Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 oh and dont forget the 12 pack in a cooler thats within reach...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 Pictures, or it didn't happen... What is your set up like downstream of the headers, Simon?? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Pictures, or it didn't happen... What is your set up like downstream of the headers, Simon?? B Custom stainless exhaust. Hi flow cat and muffler, 2.25" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Pictures, or it didn't happen... Photographer is allergic to flying tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 *snort* Well, I just got the truck back and, well, it's loud. I haven't driven it enough to talk about how much more power it has or low end torque (other than there seems to be a tiny bit of hesitation from idle) but I can tell you that it makes noise. I won't be sneaking up on anyone anymore... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzy Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 LMFAO@that sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 *snort* Well, I just got the truck back and, well, it's loud. I haven't driven it enough to talk about how much more power it has or low end torque (other than there seems to be a tiny bit of hesitation from idle) but I can tell you that it makes noise. I won't be sneaking up on anyone anymore... B hmm I think mine got a little quirter when i did mine but it had stock exhaust then... it got louder when i cut the pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheus Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) So now you've seen the headers upclose, do you have any opinion on if they'll fit the R50 or not? I checked on the pacesetter headers today... they've got them instock, I'm contemplating ordering them.... Edited November 11, 2009 by morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If the flange pattern is the same, I would say they should. The Thorleys might fit better, as they're short tubes, which leaves more space for customization of the rest of the exhaust to make them fit. The Pacesetters are long tube headers. My crossover pipe connects to the headers pretty low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 So now you've seen the headers upclose, do you have any opinion on if they'll fit the R50 or not? I checked on the pacesetter headers today... they've got them instock, I'm contemplating ordering them.... I have never so much as opened the hood on a R50 so I don't have any qualified opinion. There is a lady at work with an R50 and I'll see tomorrow if she will let me look at hers. Parked side by side, I should be able to get a pretty good idea. As for Thorley VS Pace Setters, first would be the price difference. From everything I have read, the Thorleys are better made but I have not seen the Pace Setters. The guy at the exhaust shop I went to commented on how well the Thorleys fit on the truck, I'll see if I can get a few photos today. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I have seen both Thorleys, and Pacesetters, and I will agree that the Thorleys are better built. The steel is thicker, and the fit/finish seems better. That said, the Pacesetters fit perfectly on my truck and I didn't even have much issue with the EGR tube, which some have complained about. Everything went together smoothly, and I was done the entire job in about 6 hours. I will, however, say that the coating on the Pacesetters SUCKS. It burned off in about 10 minutes of me starting the truck. I will be getting some hi-temp paint to coat them with that we used on my friend's twin-turbo Mustang exhaust. It held on that, so it'll be fine on my truck, which runs considerably cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 LOL, I read somewhere that the Pace Setter paint is only on there to protect the metal during storage and shipping, like cosmoline... Simon, do you want to post some pictures of your headers here or elsewhere? Then we have a comparison/examples of the units on very similar trucks (1995, body lifts and auto tranny). B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I will, however, say that the coating on the Pacesetters SUCKS. It burned off in about 10 minutes of me starting the truck. I will be getting some hi-temp paint to coat them with that we used on my friend's twin-turbo Mustang exhaust. It held on that, so it'll be fine on my truck, which runs considerably cooler. Got a name brand on that paint? Mine have been bare for almost 2 years now, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheus Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) I've had Nige's pathfinder in the shop today, and my truck. Took a really good look between the two, and I think there's way more room in the R50 due to the cat's being there, as compared to the tighter space on his. I would almost hazard a guess that the only reason the R50 isn't listed as an applications on the various header sites is simply that the factory exhaust will not bolt up to the headers, but I am fully prepared for a full custom exhaust behind the headers. I want to run dual exhaust from the headers to 2 high flow cat's, then into a dual inlet dynomax or flowmaster muffler and then either a single output, or a dual output.. I'm not sure which yet. Oh, and big price difference between the two. From my supplier, the thorley headers are double the pacesetter Edited November 12, 2009 by morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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