88pathoffroad Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 This is a discussion regarding replacement rear springs that can be used to lift your Pathfinder without you having to spend $100 on new springs. You can use either Jeep Grand Cherokee front coil springs(I6 or V8, AWD, from 1992-1997) or Ford pickup coil springs(from 1970-1978, 2WD, V8), depending on what's more readily available to you and/or what you personally prefer. I bought my JGC coils for $10 each at a local junkyard which seems to be a fairly cheap price after hearing from a lot of other people, but that's what they asked. Other people have used actual lift springs for a Ford truck and have had to cut down the springs to get them to fit properly, so this is not an end-all post regarding which springs you can use, it's simply a post that includes the easiest to find, modify and install springs for lifting Pathfinders. While looking for new JGC springs I found a list of all the vehicles with the exact same coils. TRW VARIABLE RATE SPRINGS Part Number: CC782 This product fits the following vehicles JEEP 1984 - 1996 CHEROKEE 1989 - 1990 GRAND WAGONEER 1986 - 1992 COMANCHE 1984 - 1990 WAGONEER 1993 - 1996 GRAND CHEROKEE Further updates and some clarification on coil spring rate and usages: Throwing another handful of mud into the soup... and then hopefully some clarifying medium.... I have a pair of front springs out of a 4.0L (I6) Jeep something sitting in front of me (thanks, Red!). They have just under 8.5 coils, but it appears Red already cut the pig tail off. The springs are just over 17" long. The wire is .54 to .55 inches in diameter OD of spring is about 5.25", ID is about 4.00" I will be installing these in a month or two and will report what lift (if any) they provide. In a previous life, I worked for NUMMI where we produced Toyota Corollas and Geo Prizms (same car, different cosmetics). There were at least 10 different models of front springs used for this "1" car depending on options and trim levels. DX, LE, GXI, LXI, with A/C, without A/C, etc. And that was just for the model year in production - there were some year to year changes as well. Only 2 versions of rear spring as I recall. So it is very likely (and looking pretty sure) Jeep used more than two different front springs over the years. They were probably not as anal about providing "optimal" suspension as Toyota was, but as our data base builds here, it appears they did offer some variations. And the aftermarket companies will not want the hassle of stocking all these varieties, so they are going to offer only a "universal" or "one size fits all" variant. So my suggestion is that we're going to have to start measuring and reporting more information to provide more accurate predictions of results. The wire diameter, number of coils, and static length (without pigtail) will all affect the amount of lift that will result. And heres how each will affect: Wire diameter: Directly affects spring rate, or how much the spring will compress under a given load. Spring rate changes as the square of the change in diameter (eg, doubling diameter quadruples spring rate). The larger the diameter, the stiffer it will be. All other things being equal, the larger diameter wire will provide more static lift as it will compress less under the weight of the vehicle. It will also provide a stiffer ride as it will compress less under the dynamic load induced by a bump. EDIT: DOHHH! The spring rate increases much more than that - it increases at the rate of diameter change to the 4th power!. So doubling the diameter gives 16x the spring rate! Going from .52" to .56" gives, umm, something like 35% increase in spring rate. That's a bunch. Number of coils: Directly affects spring rate as a linear function. The more coils, the lower the spring rate. This only applies to coils that are NOT in contact with each other. Static length: Obviously, a longer spring will provide more lift. ASSUMING the wire diameter and number of coils is EXACTLY the same. Most folks are surprised to discover this is probably the LEAST important factor. A very long spring with lots of coils of smaller diameter wire will compress a lot under the static load of the weight of the car, and will end up lowering it. A shorter spring with thicker wire and fewer coils will lift it. More information than anyone cares.... Jeep offers two basic suspension options on the Grand Cherokee ZJ models, a standard base suspension and an optional UpCountry suspension designed to improve performance in off-road driving. Chrysler makes a variety of springs for the GC. There are two main types, base and HD (heavy duty), and in each type category there are 5-10 different springs with different GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) capabilities. The springs are denoted by a two digit code as well as a part number. Higher GVWR springs from either the base or HD spring tables in the factory parts catalog are stiffer and also raise the vehicle slightly. The UpCountry (off-road) suspension option for the GC includes higher GVWR springs. In addition to whether the ZJ is equipped with standard or UpCountry (option code AWE) suspension as well as what other weight affecting options came from the factory different springs are selected. For example if the jeep has the trailer hitch or skid plate/tow hook package, there would be stiffer springs in the rear to compensate for the weight of these items. The thicker diameter wire indicates an increase in rate. The rate of a spring is proportional to the 4th power of the diameter, so even small differences in diameter make a substantial difference in rate. The UpCountry V8 "GN" code front springs (.600) are 32% stiffer than the stock "FN" code V8 springs (.560) Though I do not have the full specs for the springs available, I have determined through visiting multiple salvage yards that the most common JGC spring (and normal cherokee for that matter) out there are the FJ (.520) springs which, I believe, may give a 4-door pathy with a wheel carrier about 1/2" of lift since the stock springs are only .500 but differ in coil count etc. I was amazed at the quality of the tags remaining on the springs. The following part numbers, codes and wire diameters are known: (so far) part num code dia tag color 52001117 FH - .500 (grey) 52088102 FJ - .520 (green) 52088103 FK - .530 (yellowish. old part number 52001119) 52088181 FL - .540 52088361 FM - .550 (blue) 52088362 FN - .560 (yellow) [definately yellow, just got a pair] 52088104 GK 52088105 GL 52088363 GN - .600 52089141 GP 52089171 DL I'll edit as I gather more info. Thanks a million guys, working together we can help everybody stay on the same page and not have any problems with finding the RIGHT springs! -88 Here is my install and review report on the JGC coil springs. A NEWLY UPDATED review of the Ford coil spring/Jeep coil spring installation with before and after pictures can be found here: http://www.damagedreality.com/fordcoil.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= These springs will yield: 2 1/2" to 3" of lift over stock Pathy coils, longer than Ford coils, higher rate than stock Pathfinder coils, cheap($10 each), and fairly easy to find. There were at least ten wrecked JGC's in the junkyard when I got mine. Coils have been installed and driven around on. Prognosis: Awesome fit. Same amount of lift I had with the Ford coils, almost the same stiffness-wise. I'd highly reccommend a set of JGC front coils for lifting over the Ford coils. PICS: A stock Pathfinder spring, a JGC spring(before cutting), and the old Ford spring(with the pigtail coil cut off). You can see how much burlier the Ford coils are, spring wire diameter-wise. This is how much of the JGC coil I cut off. I used a $20 angle grinder from Harbor Freight Tools. Then I beveled the inside edge of the cut and deburred the edges of the ground-off coil end to clean it up. Installed coil springs...nice shiny black powder coat from the Jeep factory. Passenger's side spring, this is the one that droops the most on the trail because the panhard rod on the other side of the axle limits droop a bit more over on the driver's side. Note that there is no looseness! I've been having some nasty problems with the Ford coil dropping out of it's socket on the passenger's side on the trail. FIXED! The only thing I would like to mention otherwise was that the stock spring isolator/seat that goes on top of each stock coil spring wouldn't fit back in after installing the JGC springs. They're a tight fit, which is a good thing. I used four rubber donuts cut out of an old mud flap in it's place on both sides(two top, two bottom). I had to jack up the driver's side with TWO jacks and unbolt the lower shock mount & panhard rod to get the axle to droop low enough to get that darn coil in there(with the aid of a prybar and some heavy twisting). Then I had to pull downwards on the coil with one hand while shuffling the rubber donuts in under the end of the coil on top. I don't believe I'll have any problems with that, I just wanted to mention it. The passenger's side coil is easier to get in there, because that side of the axle droops more with the shock unbolted. To remove the JGC coils from a donor vehicle: 12, 13, and 14 MM sockets and ratchet will be needed, some pliers or a small crescent wrench, and the JGC will need to be jacked up/supported so that the front suspension is at full droop. There is a brake line bracket that needs to be removed(two bolts), then the lower coil retainer strap(one bolt), then the shocks will need to be unbolted(one nut on top of the shock), and the front swaybar's upper endlink bolts(BOTH sides) will need to be removed for the rest of the suspension to droop all the way and let the coil be taken out. I had to use a bit of an improvised prybar to get the spring to come off it's seat in the vehicle I got my springs off of. You simply need to pry it off the lower seat to get it to slide out to the front. Stepping on the hub with my foot also helped drop the suspension a bit lower. On the DS spring, I had to "unscrew" the spring until it dropped low enough to clear the steering components. Nothing special needed, just some basic tools and some elbow grease. It has come to my attention that due to the differences in weight ratios and setups on different year and model Pathfinders, some people may not get as much lift out of the JGC coils as I did. My Pathy is a 2-door with no rear tire carrier. Four door Pathfinders with the rear tire carrier have a LOT more rear end weight and will only get about 1.5" of lift from the JGC coils. A set of poly or rubber spacers along with the new coils may be a good answer for a cheap lift on a four door. Edit by 88: updated with fresh information and know-how, 10/9/06. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blizzardking Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Good job, Aaron............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookie Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Great write up! I guess if one had a spring compressor handy, it would probably help out eh? It looks like you don't need one for the install, just that it might make things easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Exactly. A cheap spring compressor would have made it a lot easier for me. I hate having to make do with prybars when another tool could make the job easier, but I was in the middle of the project! I wasn't about to quit! hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87mudfinder Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 sweet link just what i was looking for! okay i am really interested in doing this next myself been reading up on it and i want some height on my Pathfinder not much the before is me and the after is what i am achieveing on this link the pictures that is: http://www.damagedreality.com/fordcoil.html Questions: Has anyone used the burrlier ford spring? ANd if so how it react? I want to raise the front end of my Pathfinder it seems squashed or bagged somewhat.... So if i am gonna do this mid as well do it all at once! tell me all so mighty guys who have done this! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Questions: Has anyone used the burrlier ford spring? Where do you think I got the Ford spring in my pictures? Huh huh? The PM I sent you should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaritimeMan Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 When you say to bevel the inside edge, what exactly do you mean? Might you have a picture of this you could provide to aide me? Thanks alot, 88, you have been a big help in all my questions. M.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted February 5, 2004 Author Share Posted February 5, 2004 More properly, you should chamfer the inside edges of the cut end. It'd be a good idea to bevel the very top of the spring right on the cut end, 'cause it doesn't wind down to flat like the stock springs do. Remove the sharp edges. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fallguy Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 I have an '88 cherokee laredo doner truck here. will the springs work from that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 I have no idea, but it's doubtful. Take out one of the springs and measure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathfinder4banger Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 hey, great write up. i was wondering though, is there anything else that i would need to do to lift it aside from the springs. i just put in new shocks on my stock Pathfinder, would i need new ones?? also, im new to this so im a little confused, are the coils just for the rear, front, or the whole truck?? my email is flashover_1350@hotmail.com if you would be able to send me more info that'd be awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathfinder4banger Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 nevermind, i read your website. one quick question, if i put these springs on and adjust the torsion bars, is the truck gonna sit evenly front to back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted April 17, 2004 Author Share Posted April 17, 2004 Yes, if the t-bars are adjusted properly. They may need to be reindexed though, due to age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87mudfinder Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 If a lift of more than one or one and a half inches is desired, a ball-joint angle correction is required. What does this mean cuz if i do the 3 inch gjc lift in the rear i am gonna most likely go over the top and crank the torsions all the way up! This is Cool i will not need a angle correction? This quote was taken off a link you just sent me... I am debating! calamini lift or this way! I like cheap i am getting cheap on the lift aspect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted May 21, 2004 Author Share Posted May 21, 2004 You can run it with the t-bars cranked all the way up, but it'll make it real hard to align and the steering will hate you for it. The balljoints also won't last long, in all probability. That webpage was written a couple of years ago before anyone had really tested out the limitations of doing that. If you got a pair of 1/2" balljoint spacers from AC for about $40, it'd be a little better. New lift UCA's is the ultimate solution, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Mule Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Hey 88, would it be better to get the .5 inch ball joint spacer, or the 1.5 inch. My thought is you wouldn't need to crank the torsion bar as much with the 1.5. Is that correct? Would that decrease chances of a steering problem? I just looked them up on AC. The .5 inch is $55. The 1.5 inch is $90. I'm just trying to absorb some of your expertise. I'm found some JGC springs. I'm going to go pull them Sat morning, and hope to prepare them for lifting next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted May 21, 2004 Author Share Posted May 21, 2004 Ew, they raised the prices. Bastards. Technically, they're 1/2" and 1" spacers, the 1 1/2" term comes from the additional amount of ride height you can get by cranking up the t-bars after installing them. I put on my 1" spacers and left about 1" between the UCA and the bumpstop, just so it still has a bit of leeway either direction. You don't technically HAVE TO crank up the t-bars after installing either of them, but that's the whole point of getting them in the first place. If you install the spacers and don't crank up the t-bars, you won't get any additional lift at all anyway. They simply allow more room between the UCA and the bumpstop so you CAN crank the front end up higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fallguy Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 i just priced jgc springs from a local wrecking yard and they quoted me $45 each! should i ask them if they are gold plated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted May 22, 2004 Author Share Posted May 22, 2004 Well, compare those prices to springs brand new from the factory. That's what they're going on. I bet new springs are in excess of $200 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Mule Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 -bounce- Today was my lucky day. I went to a local junkyard that was listed in the yellow pages as specializing in Jeeps. When I called, I asked if they had any JGC w/ V8 engines. I was told several. Well, I went down there today, and when I asked where they were, they said they only had one. I was wondering if I wasted my time. (I spent 20 minutes in line to check out a loaner spring compressor at a autoparts store to take with me.) Well when I went to the 1 V8 JGC there, it looked like the springs were gone...until I looked around the back. Someone was nice enough to take them off for me. $25 for the pair. No elbow grease needed. I cut them and painted them blue metallic. I hope to install next weekend, if I can wait that long! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NitRo_BooGiE Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Is it normal for my pathy to sit higher in the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statikuz Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Yep, its posted in all sorts of places around this forum. Pathfinders sit a little higher in the rear, as do most vehicles nowadays, theoretically to keep them more stable at highway speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NitRo_BooGiE Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Thanks stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailChaser Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I was reading about how the JGC springs will lift the rear about 3 inches on a 2 door pathy with no rear tire carrier, and only about 1 1/2 inches with the tire and extra doors... Well I have all the extra weight on mine... So my question is: Would it be possible to add an extension to the JGC springs to get a full 3 inches of lift? By extension I mean just either getting 3 of those springs and cutting one in half and welding them together so you have 1 1/2 or 1 1/4 JGC springs on each side, or by just welding a 5-6 inch piece of a similar diameter pipe onto either the top or bottom of the springs. I weld on springs at work sometimes, and they don't hold a weld very well. By that I mean the tack welds can break from the spring material. But I've never seen a good bead break. Mainly it's just the tack welds that we put on before the main weld, but those tack welds are usually enough to hold ANYTHING together. I'm sure I could make it work. It's just the matter of will a spring that long be able to compress to fit into the space provided. How hard was it for some of you who have installed the 16.5 inch JGC springs to get the spring mounted? Was there plenty of room, or was it nearly impossible? I have fork lifts and hoists and all types of heavy duty equipment that I'm free to use at the shop, but sometimes some things just won't fit. I'd really like to get a full 2.5-3 inches of lift outa the rear, but I'm not wanting to bite off more than I can chew. Thanks for any help, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 You can't weld spring steel and have it hold up like that. There's not enough joint surface area to support both the weight of the vehicle and the constant movement they're meant to endure. The best you can do is add spring spacers and heat and reshape the top coil of the JGC spring so it's not a pigtail. I tried longer springs off a Ford Aerostar, they were about 18.5" long and it was tough to get them in there, but the spring rate was so low the top four or five coils compressed together and didn't give any lift. It's more a matter of getting the proper length and spring rate in the spring you want to use than it is modifying what's already been tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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