NissanPerson Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I've driven a few different years of Pathfinders in my life and I am currently driving a '92 XE. Before the '92 I was driving an '88 XE...I loved the '88 but I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when a guy decided to run a stop sign...anyway, I NEVER had any problems in ice or snow with my '88. That thing could go through ANYTHING, I swear. But, with the '92 I get stuck EVERYWHERE and it's really starting to tick me off. Just the other day I got stuck IN THE DRIVEWAY after getting 2 inches of snow and I was in 4wd...A little ice and the damn thing just spins one wheel and won't move! I'm assuming it has something to do with open differentials or something of the sort but why would Nissan even make 1wd an option on its cars??? I long for my '88 and it's traction and ability to go through anything! I suppose my only option is to upgrade to some type of locking differentials or something (as I've read while searching on this topic here). I think I'm just going to go and think about my '88 and how great she was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 sssh just what could be a stupid question.. 1. do you have the auto locking hubs? and 2. are you sure they're engaging correctly? I have a 92 XE and i love it.. ok.. so CA doesn't get much snow.. but i do love my mud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanPerson Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 Yeah, they're auto locking...my old 88 was all outfitted with manuals and was a real machine...now my priorities in life have turned slightly away from making my Pathfinder the greatest machine on earth...at least for a while...so I'm not entirely ready to outfit this one yet. I'm pretty sure the 4wd is working properly. When I floor it from a stop on slippery conditions it goes fine...but if I were to put a small ice chunk under each tire (except one) the one without the ice chunk would spin and the rest would sit there rather than crush the ice chunk and beg for something more difficult...which is what my 88 used to do. This is where the driveway gets me...packed and uneven snow...I come to a stop to reverse into my spot and there is enough of a ridge of snow to make some tires say "no way" and then only one sits and spins...I have to pull forward to be at the proper angle to get into my spot in reverse and my front tires usually end up in indentations that are like the indentation on wheel ramps you use to change your oil...as soon as those stop my progress my car turns into a 1wd wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC88Pathy Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 From your description it seems as though you had the rear limited slip diff. in the 88 and now have an open diff in the 92. If you still have the 88 I'd suggest removing the entire rear axle and swapping it onto the 92. If you don't have the 88 anymore (very likely) you could go to a local junkyard and look around for a LSD rear axle. I think you'd have to grab the whole axle as the carriers differ between open and LSD axles, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Also I find that even on my 88 with LSD rear, gaining traction in reverse is a lot more difficult than in forward gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 hmm.. interesting. sounds like one hub is not engaging properly for some reason... or locking and unlocking at free will..... which is what would happen with my 92 sometimes with the autos.... i know it is cold and snowy out but have you engaged 4wd and then checked under the truck to see if they really are locked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 From your description it seems as though you had the rear limited slip diff. in the 88 and now have an open diff in the 92. If you still have the 88 I'd suggest removing the entire rear axle and swapping it onto the 92. If you don't have the 88 anymore (very likely) you could go to a local junkyard and look around for a LSD rear axle. I think you'd have to grab the whole axle as the carriers differ between open and LSD axles, but I'm not 100% sure on that.Also I find that even on my 88 with LSD rear, gaining traction in reverse is a lot more difficult than in forward gears. there is also a difference in spline counts.. pre 90's had 27 spline.. 90-95 are 28 spline (just FYI) oh yeah.. i have the LSD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 (edited) The '88 might have had an LSD rear end, while the '92 may not... that would make a difference. Another thing to check is if the hubs on the front are properly engaging. If they are not then you are not driving with 4WD.. even if you have the lever in 4WD. One of the easiest way's to check if your 4WD is operating is to get on a slick surface that you can see you tracks in (like a dirt road or light gravel), put it in 4WD and if you have auto hubs drive forward 5-10ft to make sure they engaged. If you have manual hubs then get out and lock them both in. Get back in and "punch it"... just for a second. You just want to do this long enough to spin your tires. Then get out and see how many marks were left behind from your tires spinning... should at least two (one in the front and one in the rear). If there was nothing left by the front end then there may be a problem in the front drive that needs to be investigated and corrected. With an open differential, like what is in the front of your truck ('92 & '88) and what may be in the rear of the '92 the power is transferred from the wheel that grips to the wheel that slips. The one offering the least resistance gets the most power. Does it make sense? No, but that is the way they work. When one wheel loses traction in snow, ice, mud or simply comes of the ground all the power is given to it because it has the least resistance. An LSD (Limited Slip) slips a little then the clutches engage and power is split between them... that may be what your '88 had. So if your front drive is operating correctly then your options are to simply deal with it as is, go to a wrecking yard and get the entire third member from a truck that has an LSD and install it in the rear of your truck (make sure the gear ratio is the same as what you have now). Or buy a locker and install it in the rear of your truck. Nissan did nothing that all other truck makers have done and still do in many, when they put an open diff in these trucks. It is the base diff version and serves the needs of most people without issue. but for those of use who need or simply want more traction, it is not the diff of choice EDIT: Between the time I started writing this.. got distracted.. and finally finished it, Slick and SC88 jumped all over it Edited March 6, 2006 by RedPath88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 This is where the driveway gets me...packed and uneven snow...I come to a stop to reverse into my spot and there is enough of a ridge of snow to make some tires say "no way" and then only one sits and spins... Here is another consideration for you... what is the difference in the tires? Tread pattern (type of tire) and the amount of wear between what the '88 had and the '92 has. -thnkboutit- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanPerson Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 (edited) Thanks guys! That was all very helpful and reassured what I was thinking. I'm 99% sure the 4wd is working and I also noticed (SC88) that reverse gives me worse traction. I guess my option is to replace the blasted axle on the back. I may have to do that when I get some money. I'll see how it holds up this spring while spring goose hunting...if I get stuck in mud it's a definite yes! I have some BFG AT's on my '92 I believe (came with it when I bought it). My 88 had Michelin All Terrain I think...Michelins grip ice and snow MUCH better than other tires from my experience...that's why I buy 'em! But the tires on the '92 are about 1/2 dead too...not really a snow/ice tread I don't believe...more for mud I think. So, yeah, I agree that's part of the problem too. Edited March 6, 2006 by NissanPerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Thanks guys! That was all very helpful and reassured what I was thinking. I'm 99% sure the 4wd is working and I also noticed (SC88) that reverse gives me worse traction. I guess my option is to replace the blasted axle on the back. I may have to do that when I get some money. I'll see how it holds up this spring while spring goose hunting...if I get stuck in mud it's a definite yes! I have some BFG AT's on my '92 I believe (came with it when I bought it). My 88 had Michelin All Terrain I think...Michelins grip ice and snow MUCH better than other tires from my experience...that's why I buy 'em! But the tires on the '92 are about 1/2 dead too...not really a snow/ice tread I don't believe...more for mud I think. So, yeah, I agree that's part of the problem too. If you end up going that route consider a locker... I think most here would agree that it is the most bang for the buck when compared to finding and installing an LSD. Something else to think about is that if you do find an LSD in a wrecking yard, it will probably have a lot of miles on it and will be in need of rebuilding... thus driving up the cost of it. A locker can be had for around $250US and will install in the carrier you already have (they will not install in an LSD carrier.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 bravo! bravo! well said red ... well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I love how people think "4WD" means all 4 tires spin every time when you pull the t-case lever. With open diffs (standard on Pathfinders without the rear LSD) and extremely low traction in 4WD, you will ALWAYS spin one front and one rear tire, usually on opposite sides. Look up how differentials work on HowStuffWorks.com for more. If the rear diff came with a LSD, you will most often get 3 tires spinning, but it's not a guarantee (depending on the condition of the LSD). On the other hand, if traction is equal to all 4 tires, it WILL spin all 4 equally, but not for long. Problem is, it's rare to get equal traction on all 4 tires at once. Another thing to consider is tire pressure. If your current tires are set at 50 psi, they will have very little grip on slippery surfaces because the tread blocks will not be able to deform to the shape of the surface you're driving on. At 20 psi, they will have much better grip. At 15, even better yet, but don't attempt any highway driving on low tires... The differences between an 88 and a 92 are so small as to be laughable, but equipment options make a lot of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainman Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Yeah, they're auto locking. I'm pretty sure the 4wd is working properly. This is where the driveway gets me...packed and uneven snow...I come to a stop to reverse into my spot and there is enough of a ridge of snow to make some tires say "no way" and then only one sits and spins...I have to pull forward to be at the proper angle to get into my spot in reverse and my front tires usually end up in indentations that are like the indentation on wheel ramps you use to change your oil...as soon as those stop my progress my car turns into a 1wd wonder. Are you SURE 4wd is working? Only 1 tire spinning says no 4wd. Should spin 1 tire on each axle, the transfer case is a locker type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 (edited) Not sure where that was directed, but that was exactly why I said a slick surface. I guess I could have expanded on that even more and said a surface that is level, consistent and will give as near equal traction to each tire are is possible. But I kind of figured that was understood I have used that test on many occasions and as long as traction is close, it often works and is a starting point at any rate. *Edited original post... perhaps more to everyone's liking now Edited March 6, 2006 by RedPath88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbinger Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I'm 99% sure the 4wd is working and I also noticed (SC88) that reverse gives me worse traction. I may be wrong, but isn't it true that auto-magic hubs won't work in reverse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookie Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 ...I have some BFG AT's on my '92 I believe (came with it when I bought it). My 88 had Michelin All Terrain I think...Michelins grip ice and snow MUCH better than other tires from my experience...that's why I buy 'em! But the tires on the '92 are about 1/2 dead too...not really a snow/ice tread I don't believe...more for mud I think. So, yeah, I agree that's part of the problem too. Hello-hello! I'd say it's your tires. Then can make more of a difference than one would think. The Mich's probably had a ton of more sipeing and probably a softer rubber compound than the BFG's. Since the BFG's are 1/2 worn, they are probably alot harder now to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainman Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I love how people think "4WD" means all 4 tires spin every time when you pull the t-case lever. With open diffs (standard on Pathfinders without the rear LSD) and extremely low traction in 4WD, you will ALWAYS spin one front and one rear tire, usually on opposite sides. Look up how differentials work on HowStuffWorks.com for more. If the rear diff came with a LSD, you will most often get 3 tires spinning, but it's not a guarantee (depending on the condition of the LSD). On the other hand, if traction is equal to all 4 tires, it WILL spin all 4 equally, but not for long. Problem is, it's rare to get equal traction on all 4 tires at once. 88's comment is key to getting to the root cause of the problem. I am still unsure if you have a functioning 4wd system but then I am very simple minded . Have you done 88's test? Do you have 1 wheel (or more) spinning on each axle? If so, then your 4wd is OK and you can look for other culprits like tires and locking rear diff. If you only get 1 tire total spinning with the transfer case in 4wd, then you have some other problem like hub(s) not engaging or the transfer case not working properly :furious: . Knowing which tire is spinning will help to narrow down the culprit. Humor an old man and let us (me anyway ) know the outcome of this test. Good luck. Thanks for your understanding my simple mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathy Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 i had that problem.. it was the auto hubs.. they work and friction and they were worn out.. I would start with a set of manual locking hubs.. they are cheap and will garantee your wheels are locked in. My stock 87 pathy with no LSD would go absolutely anywere unless i lifted a tire.. then it was a problem. I dont believe that his being or not being a LSD would cause the problem he is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ticker Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I'm not going to hazard a guess at the problem but it sound pretty bizzare to me that you are getting stuck in such a small amount of snow. I would think that no matter the set up of your rig that such minor amounts of snow and ice shouldn't be a problem. I mean while i understand that not all 4x4s are not created equal this seems silly that a properly functioning 4wd system would get stuck like this. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainman Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I dont believe that his being or not being a LSD would cause the problem he is talking about. I mean while i understand that not all 4x4s are not created equal this seems silly that a properly functioning 4wd system would get stuck like this. Right? I agree. I do not think he has power to the front wheels from what he is describing. That is why I asked earlier if he was SURE the 4wd was working. Would hate to see him spend a bunch of money/time on a new LDS/locker and/or tires and still be in the same position. Find out the root cause of the problem first, then work from there. Maybe as simple as new hubs. Lets hope so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC88Pathy Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I may be wrong, but isn't it true that auto-magic hubs won't work in reverse? Nah they work fine in reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 i'd have to agree that it's something with 4x4 or the front part of it.. shouldn't be getting stuck in that little amount of snow. 2 feet is about when i have some problems but still able to run. (BFG MTs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanPerson Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 I am confident the 4wd is working. If I'm at a stop sign and I punch it on ice I have wonderful traction. A couple weeks ago I was out skiing and I drove up an old gravel road trying to get pictures of deer feeding and I was driving through about 1.5 to 2 feet of snow with no problem. BUT, our driveway is hard packed snow (very slick although it is now melting) because we rarely shovel (that's what 4wd is for, right???). There's this normal path I take every day to park...our driveway is L shaped...I go forward up the driveway, turn right a bit until I hit the snow bank, and then reverse in to my parking spot (as I can't make the turn going in forward). There is about 4 inches of packed ice and snow where I have done this day after day. If I drive too far forward I go off of the packed snow and the snow acts as chocks on my two front wheels (about 4 inches). When I put it in reverse these chocks, I'm assuming, stop my front wheels from turning and my back wheel will sit and spin...I just found it funny that such a small ridge of snow and a little ice (and probably my tire choice) cause me to get stuck in something like that. I was used to my old car and I just checked some stuff out and (the 92) it does have an open differential. I'm confident it's nothing more than bad tires for snow and ice and an open differntial I'm just disappointed and embarassed that I have to sit with a shovel and ice chopper in our driveway and dig my 4wd out after 2 inches. I want to cry when neighbors smile and wave as they drive by. I know for a fact my 88 would've been spinning 2 tires (at least partially) and I just found it quite amazing the difference between the two cars...more of an observation on my part. But, it has promoted some great discussion! I'll be looking into a locker when I have $$ to buy one! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 still sounds to me like the 4x4 isn't engaging or something.. you should have some spin at front if it is working.. for "ice" there isn't much that can be done besides you shoveling it, sand, salt, chains, winter tires.. no 4x4, locked or not can skate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I know how to fix your problem! Sand the ice, man. Get some coarse sand and sprinkle away. hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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