lowrider Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 BTW --- i take no credit for this, johnny b (hillclimber) was a HUGE help, and he deserves the kudos. This is yet another 'poor mans' solution that seems to work better than the real thing. I have a certain penchant for not spending lots of money on things I don't need to (leaves more money for going out), so I'm all about mods like this. This is actually a very simple procedure. These are instructions for a 1990 and up pathfinder, but if I'm not mistaken, the Xterra/Frontier uses the same rear carrier and the same LSD setup as well as hardbody's, so it should be exactly the same (or VERY similar). What you'll need: About 4 hours Jack Jackstands A truck with LSD or a donor LSD third member Friction discs from an LSD rear end 3 qts. Of 80W-90 LSD gear oil ABS-safe brake cleaner Chock the front wheels. Put the tranny in neutral, e-brake DOWN (can't stress this enough), jack up the rear end, support the rear, remove the fill plug from the rear diff, remove the drainplug, start draining gear oil (it takes a while to drain, so it's good to do it while you're working on the rest of the truck), remove rear wheels and brake drums. Ok, now you should be able to see what's going on underneath there. There are 4 17mm bolts on the back of the brake drum that attach the rear axles. Remove them, be careful with the next step as it may piss gear oil. Gently pull on the drum and slide the axle out as far as you can (try not to bend brake lines, etc). Repeat process on opposite side. Putting the truck in gear will make the next step easier. Ok, now take a look at the rear driveshaft. There are 4 17mm nuts and bolts that attach the end of the driveshaft to the third member. Remove them, the easiest way to do this is with a 17mm socket on the front, and the open end of a 17mm wrench on the diff side. Once the driveshaft is unbolted, hang it up with a bungee or something so it's out of the way and won't fall out of the tranny. The rear swaybar needs to be disconnected next. There are 4 14mm bolts that attach it to its mounts. Remove them, swing the swaybar up and out of the way and tie it up with a bungee too. Ok, now you're ready to remove the 3rd member. There should be 11 14mm nuts that affix it to the axle housing. Remove them all, the rear end will stay in place after their all removed, so don't worry about that yet. Ok, now you'll need to gently work the third off, put pressure on the top, then the bottom, side to side until the seal is broken, then slowly ease it out. It weighs about 80 pounds, so be ready for it. If it doesn't want to come out, you may need someone to pull on the axles as you remove it to release it all. Ok, so now you have the rear end on your bench and you're about halfway done! the hard part is over, i promise. Drink a beer, you earned it (unless you have a bad hangover like i had when i did this) The LSD 3rd member is pretty simple in operation and execution. Right now, you'll want to grab a piece of cardboard, draw a picture of the diff as you see it, and punch holes where the bolts you remove are going to go, as they all need to be put back into the same places they came out. *VERY IMPORTANT* Ok, so by now you should be ready to take the end caps off. Note the two 10mm bolts and clips on the carrier. These clips are designed to hold the lash adjusters in place. Mark the lash adjusters with marking paint or a felt on each side, this will make reassembly a hell of a lot easier. Remove the clips, remove the bolts that attach the endcaps, remove the endcaps (lash adjusters should come out with it) Gently remove the spider gear and lsd assembly, lay that on your bench, move the other stuff off it and grab another piece of cardboard. Ok, so you should see a gear with a @!*%load of bolts in it and the lsd assembly bolted to it. Remove the '@!*%load' of bolts from the gear and lift it off *TAKE NOTE HOW THE GEAR IS ON AND WHERE THE BOLTS CAME FROM* Gently lift the gear off of the lsd assembly and see what you're dealing with, have another beer wile reassesing. The LSD assembly contains two packs of discs and the spider gears, the discs are what creates the 'slip' part of the LSD. The spider gears must remain in place for reassembly, so don't touch them anymore than you have to. The discs are held in place with a clip on each side, remove those clips and discard, you will not be able to use them, nor need to use them for reassembly. The packs contain 2 spring discs, and a handful of fricition discs that act as a clutch. These discs are specific to which side of the LSD they come from, the tolerances are apparantly slightly different depending which side, so don't confuse them, and make sure you're donor discs are from the appropriate side of the donor LSD. What i did was remove the convex shaped spring disc (you'll know it when you see it) and replace it with 2 friction discs. The friction discs you'll notice have either horizontial stryations to them or a spiral shaped stryation, these are opposite, so if you are adding a spiral shaped one, make sure it is against the opposite one and the remaining spring disc. We snapped a carrier the first time we did this by putting 4 new discs in per side, no dice. 2 is all you get and it's TIGHT like that so i wouldn't worry about putting more in and possibly breaking a carrier (we had 2 spares so it was ok) Ok, that may have taken a while to get it right. Put the LSD back together the way it came apart, you'll notice the bolts that hold the gear together to the LSD are in a circle. What i did was gently tigthen one, do the one on the opposite side, etc, until they were all torqued all the way down and it ensures it was put back together evenly. Clean out the 3rd member case and lube with a bit of gear oil. Reinstall the LSD and gear, and set lash by realigning those adjusters prior to reinstalling the endcaps. Reinstall endcaps and check lash using marking paint and spinning the diff. The marks should come on on the main gear gently, feather in and taper out before the end of the gear. If this isn't set right, it can cause premature wear on the gears and the axles. If you're unsure on this, you can take the 3rd in and get the gears set up again, but you really shouldn't have to. Use black high temp RTV sealant around the 3rd where it attaches to the axle housing, it would suck if it leaked and you had to do this all again, right? Reinstall the 3rd, you may need someone to pull on the axles with reinstalling so it slides in properly. Put the truck back together, clean out your brakes, add gear oil, and test drive. You'll now notice that your rear is LOCKED. There is no 'slip' left in the limited slip, and you essentially have a spool (though not techinically, but i'm not going to argue semantics over this over a $10 mod). Your tires chirp around corners, you have INSANE off road traction, and winter driving will now be one sketchy experiance. I will be adding 'Synchroslip' fluid to my diff as the chirping and barking is a little annoying, and winters coming, what this fluid does is allow some slippage between the friction discs. No, i don't have pics, sorry. Happy locked wheeling! -bounce- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Hmm... It seems to me that if you really wanted it "locked" all the time (and I'll avoid asking why...), then "lincoln locking" the stock diff gears would be less effort and cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaritimeMan Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Yeah, but you can't lincoln lock a LSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Another good write up. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathy Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 you can't check the back lash with marking compound. The marking compound only tells you if your pinion depth is right. to get the proper backlash you need a depth mike on a magnetic base. you must have got lucky cause the way you checked the back lash is wrong sorry if i sound a little harsh.. but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transworldmoto Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 hey man, good right up and right on for the poor man's mods! gotta keep us "less fortunate" guys afloat in this sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pickles Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 you can't check the back lash with marking compound. The marking compound only tells you if your pinion depth is right. to get the proper backlash you need a depth mike on a magnetic base. you must have got lucky cause the way you checked the back lash is wrong sorry if i sound a little harsh.. but... Hey bud, care to throw in a correct method or some resources for those that may be somewhat clueless? I don't have an LSD anyways, just a shot out for those that do. Welcome back again, by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 (edited) Hey bud, care to throw in a correct method or some resources for those that may be somewhat clueless? feel free to correct me if im wrong - i would like to know... my understanding is set a magnetic base dial gauge on a bench and secure it. set the tip of the gauge on one of the ring gear teeth. while supporting the pinion gear by holding the drive shaft flange, rotate the diff in both directions while observing the max variation in depth from the indicator - i.e. the highest value minus the lowest value. next rotate the diff centre 90 degrees and measure again for accuracy. check this figure with the service manual - i would put the figure in had a friend not borrowed my manual adjust as required in or out via the adjusters. once correct figure is attained tighen the bearing cap bolts to specified torque & wal-la. Edited October 26, 2005 by sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 feel free to correct me if im wrong - i would like to know...my understanding is set a magnetic base dial gauge on a bench and secure it. set the tip of the gauge on one of the ring gear teeth. while supporting the pinion gear by holding the drive shaft flange, rotate the diff in both directions while observing the max variation in depth from the indicator - i.e. the highest value minus the lowest value. next rotate the diff centre 90 degrees and measure again for accuracy. check this figure with the service manual - i would put the figure in had a friend not borrowed my manual adjust as required in or out via the adjusters. once correct figure is attained tighen the bearing cap bolts to specified torque & wal-la. Steevo. You just blew my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted October 26, 2005 Author Share Posted October 26, 2005 (edited) you can't check the back lash with marking compound. The marking compound only tells you if your pinion depth is right. to get the proper backlash you need a depth mike on a magnetic base. you must have got lucky cause the way you checked the back lash is wrong sorry if i sound a little harsh.. but... No, not harsh man, thanks for the heads up.....and apparantly we got lucky.... Hmm... It seems to me that if you really wanted it "locked" all the time (and I'll avoid asking why...), then "lincoln locking" the stock diff gears would be less effort and cost. Hmmm...this mod costs me ten bucks, so i don't think it would be cheaper to weld the diff, even if i could. I know too, since there's zero play with a welded diff, it's alot easier to snap an axle or other parts....i know mine's tight, but not welded tight. The other thing, is it can all be changed right back to stock by simply taking it apart again, removing the extra discs and putting the springs back in (though i have an extra LSD third, so i'd just as soon fire that back in) so if someone was to do it and didn't like it or it became undriveable/unsafe in winter, an afternoon later and it's back the way it was. Just my .02; like my other write ups, do with it what you want Edited October 26, 2005 by lowrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathy Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 http://www.ringpinion.com/downloads/yukoninstman.pdf This is the best intallation procedure you can find. It shows step by step as well as how to read your print from the marking compound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 http://www.ringpinion.com/downloads/yukoninstman.pdf This is the best intallation procedure you can find. It shows step by step as well as how to read your print from the marking compound. Should be a sticky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Agreed. Plenty of good info here ! I'm thinking of changing the title to something like "Changing/Adding LSD Clutch in WD21" or something and putting it in the Garage\How To section. Any suggestion for discriptive title low rider ? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 so with this set up you get some slip as long as you are coasting not powering, is that correct? love the concept! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Luker Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 http://nissan4wheelers.com/groupee/forums/...3/m/72410926821 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Cool beans, glad to know it's so easy to do. MaritimeMan! Get ye some clutch discs and come on over! By the way, the adjusters adjust the bearing preload, not backlash depth. The backlash won't change unless you add or remove shims to the pinion or the carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramithepimp77 Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 By the way, the adjusters adjust the bearing preload, not backlash depth. The backlash won't change unless you add or remove shims to the pinion or the carrier. Ya! What he said! Rami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derogate Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 (edited) This is a fantastic mod for anyone with a worn out LSD!! Good tip on the synchroslip addative too. Any idea if that will make your friction plates eventually wear out To the point where its like an open diff or worn LSD? Edited November 7, 2005 by derogate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Well, just a little update. When we slid the drivers side axle back in, we broke the outer axle seal. Took a couple days and a wheeling trip to notice the gear oil, took it to nissan and had it replaced (so far the only thing i've had done to the truck by a mech.) cost $150 cdn. My truck has 340,000 kms on it, so it was just a matter of time before i blew a seal. Winter driving is fine, i don't have 4wd right now (casuality of the trail taking out a cv axle combined with zero free time till jan) and it's fine, the roads here were an icey, sketchy mess for 2 weeks this month, and i had no issues. When you get it sideways on snow and ice, it's way easier to hold it in a drift, and you don't get that one outside wheel spinning away and turning the truck around and around. Trail: FAWKIN AWESOME. one wheel Waaaay up in the air, and both spin, you can now get out of way more than you would be able to with a stock LSD. I added the slipping agent a couple weeks ago and it made around town driveability much easier to deal with. This is a mod that i would definitely do again. I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Agreed. Plenty of good info here ! I'm thinking of changing the title to something like "Changing/Adding LSD Clutch in WD21" or something and putting it in the Garage\How To section. Any suggestion for discriptive title low rider ? B Umm....i would either keep the 'poor mans spool' moniker or 'converting your stock LSD to a pseudo-spool' or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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