PathinTX Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) I'll try and be as detailed as possible 1994 4x4 5-Speed Posi SE / Sunroof this Problem has been happening for Numerous Years - and now getting worse. I turn the Key to start - nothing happens this doenst happen every time I turn the key all the way several times and it starts You hear a clicking at the Starter Relay under the hood and at the relays at the fuse box Sometimes I just leave the key turned all the way - leave it there for abt a minute - then Crank the Key and its starts Replaced the Starter a few times over the numerous years Replaced the Wiring Harness from the Battery to Starter Replaced the Starter Relay too many times Replaced the Ignition Switch a few times Replaced the Ignition Key Cylinder Unit Current Battery is Brand New One thing I have been doing for awhile is I take out the top far right relay at the fuse box put it back in - it starts but that doesnt always work Sometimes I take out all 3 top relays at the fuse box and put them back in and it starts but that doesnt always work Sometimes I have to put my battery charger on the Battery and wait abt 2 mins and then it will crank and turn on To me - it seems that there is not enough " electrical power " getting through the passage to complete the starting phase Sometimes i loose patience and just have to push start it Numerous years ago I talked to a mechanic from California that told me you have to replace the complete wiring harness from the Steering Column to the Battery He said he had seen that problem with year model Pathfinder Recently a mechanic I know - told me the PIN in the Column isnt making a good connection and you need to replace the Complete Steering Column He was going to do a bypass but I think he just thinks its to involved of a problem... I dont know anything abt a PIN in the Column Does anyone know how to bypass relays and do you really need relays What abt doing a Push Button Start option .. I'm lost with this Starting Problem Plus I just recently put in a NEW Engine w/ New Clutch unit i have abt 1,200 miles on the New Engine as of today I rebuilt the 5 speed a few years ago - 1st gear synco broke / New Flywheel I recently rebuilt the complete front suspension ( for the 3rd time ) New Rotors New Rear Springs, New Rear Control Arm Bushings ( 8 ) - pressed them out / installed new You put the frame on jack stands - Put a floor jack under the rearend unit to hold the rearend from dropping to the ground Unbolt the 4 control arms / lower the rearend some and then take off the 4 control arms - take them to a machine shop to press out the bushings and press in new bushings I'm lost with this Starting Problem Thanks Robert 300,000 miles on Orginal Engine Rebuild Sept 2022 Edited October 12, 2022 by PathinTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I had a similar problem with the starter circuit in mine. Sometimes it would do the classic click/no start, sometimes it would release the starter and then power it again so it barked to gears, sometimes it would crank slow like the battery was flat, when it wasn't. I checked and replaced a bunch of stuff, some of which seemed to help a little, but what finally killed the problem dead was deleting the harness for the car alarm. I'm not sure exactly what was wrong with it, but it's gone now, and so is the starting issue. The alarm is pretty easy to get rid of. Two or three Scotchlocks, everything else just unplugs, and the harnesses it intercepted plug back into each other like it was never there. Given yours is manual, I would also check the clutch switch, if you haven't yet. If that doesn't do it, you can install a relay between the factory harness and the starter, as Mr. Reverse describes here. I did this years ago on a friend's Toyota that wasn't worth the cost of a new ignition switch. It worked great, until the switch finished dying, at which point it got a pushbutton. Possibly your mechanic is a Ford guy and is thinking of the pushrod ignition they used in the '80s/'90s F-series trucks. If you've already done the ignition lock cylinder, and the switch, I don't think there's anything else in the column that's relevant to the starter circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burco Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 7 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: I had a similar problem with the starter circuit in mine. Sometimes it would do the classic click/no start, sometimes it would release the starter and then power it again so it barked to gears, sometimes it would crank slow like the battery was flat, when it wasn't. I checked and replaced a bunch of stuff, some of which seemed to help a little, but what finally killed the problem dead was deleting the harness for the car alarm. I'm not sure exactly what was wrong with it, but it's gone now, and so is the starting issue. The alarm is pretty easy to get rid of. Two or three Scotchlocks, everything else just unplugs, and the harnesses it intercepted plug back into each other like it was never there. Given yours is manual, I would also check the clutch switch, if you haven't yet. If that doesn't do it, you can install a relay between the factory harness and the starter, as Mr. Reverse describes here. I did this years ago on a friend's Toyota that wasn't worth the cost of a new ignition switch. It worked great, until the switch finished dying, at which point it got a pushbutton. Possibly your mechanic is a Ford guy and is thinking of the pushrod ignition they used in the '80s/'90s F-series trucks. If you've already done the ignition lock cylinder, and the switch, I don't think there's anything else in the column that's relevant to the starter circuit. I agree with this line of thinking. Run a wire with a switch from batt to to the starter solonoid, you could even run it into the cabin. Then next time it happens, leave the key on and see if the switch will start the car. If car doesnt start, the alarm system would be suspect. If car does start, I personally could live with that vs. throwing time and expensive parts at it. ( My car just started doing the same thing. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burco Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I agree with this line of thinking. Run a wire with a switch from batt to to the starter solonoid, you could even run it into the cabin. Then next time it happens, leave the key on and see if the switch will start the car. If car doesnt start, the alarm system would be suspect. If car does start, I personally could live with that vs. throwing time and expensive parts at it. ( My car just started doing the same thing. ) Intermittant problems are the hardest to diagnose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Reverse Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 My starter fix was for automatic transmission trucks, basically it was similar to how the manual transmission trucks are set up. Intermittent issues like yours is difficult to nail down. The symptoms do sound like a poor connection somewhere between the the battery and the starter solenoid mounted on the starter. Like others have said, it is possible that the problem is with the factory alarm/security system. It is a known problem child. It is a very simple unit that uses a starter interrupt. If the unit is failing on you it might not be powering the starter interrupt relay or that relay could have failing contacts. I don't have a wiring diagram handy at the moment, but if you trace the start wire from the ignition switch, you will find where it goes to the alarm module under the driver's seat and back to the harness in the steering column. Bypass the alarm starter circuit and that will eliminate the possibility that it is the security system causing your starter issue. Sorry, it sounds more complicated than it really is, only takes a few minutes to find the wires where they leave the harness and connect them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathinTX Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 Wow Ive always wondered if the Alarm System was an issue I turned off the Alarm on the Console switch and it doesnt turn off Ive always thought Im not getting enough voltage to the Starter Relay What it interesting is As an example today It would not start Clicked Clicked I put my battery charger on it to see if I could get a Voltage boost to the Starter - didnt work this time - sometimes that works My driveway has a slight slope so Pushed it in reverse pop the clutch and it starts drove to the store left the store - would not start - another slight slope - pop the clutch & starts drove home parked in garage - turn off then tested turned the key and started right up - no problem my next days I can look into this are Tues / Wed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathinTX Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 Where is the "starter interrupt relay" or is the same thing as the " Starter Relay on the passenger fender " Another thing the 3 relays in the fuse box the far top right - I sometimes take it out - put it back in - and it starts does anyone know what those 3 relays in the fuse box - do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathinTX Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) ok i turned the Alarm Switch to Off Turned the Key as to Start and it Started Drove around and went to get a 450 Million $ Lotto Ticket left it running drove home Turned it off Turned the Key to Start it - It started right up - turned it Off - Turned the Key to Start it - It started right up - Turned the Key to Start it - It started right up interesting Alarm is in OFF position I'll try it again tomorrow another thing that happens sometimes Power Locks All 4 doors unlocked Close the Drivers doors and all 4 doors lock - that should not happen lmao Ive left it running and get out and close the drivers door and it locks all 4 doors with the engine running - i dont trust it - so if Im going to close the drivers door with it running - I roll the drivers window down so i reach in and hit the unlock to unlock electrical problems - pain in the ars another one the Rear hatch ceiling light - it just stopped turning on years years ago - I traced wires and finally gave up Edited October 14, 2022 by PathinTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathinTX Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 It started up fine this morning with Alarm Switch in the Off Position Ran it Turned if off 20 mins later - thought to see if it would crank on again - NOPE it didnt start up also I am thinking the Alarm switch is not Turning Off In the Off Position - I lock it with the Remote and the Alarm sounds the lock indicating the Alarm is on and the Light is on the Switch even though the Alarm switch in the Off Position ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Intermittent issues are always a PITA. The EL section of the service manual will do you a lot of good. You can download the '94/'95 manual for free from Nicoclub. There's an underhood diagram that calls out where the relays are. IIRC the inhibitor relay on my auto-trans '93 is near the washer fluid res, not sure if the manual trucks put it somewhere else. There are also diagrams of the auto and manual starter circuits. The alarm being turned off won't necessarily prevent issues. I had the alarm brain fully deleted, starter kill wires spliced together, and the circuit still acted up until I got rid of the harness. The spazzy door locks are classic Pathfinder. Mine does it too, sometimes, usually when it's cold and I can't be arsed to chase it. My first one was really bad about it. I suspect something electrical in the driver's door is worn and makes or loses contact if shaken hard enough, which the lock timer sees as a lock signal. Some people have reported success from resoldering the lock timer, but that didn't do much for mine. The switch for the rear cargo light is a weird design. It's built into the latch. On my '95 I rewired it to the switch for the tire carrier warning light, which worked, but only after I added a diode so it couldn't backfeed the cluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathinTX Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 lamo Electrical problems screw with my brain too much Mechanical im 100% good - I use to be an automotive machinist / 1/4 mile racing / 1/4 street racing - 71 Camero sleeper fast im lost I replaced the Harness from the Battery to Stater - Nissan Original Harness for my Vin # it made Zero difference youre in WA - I use to go to Seattle / P Sound / Snogualmie Pass - MT Biker / Rainier / Hood Burco is in Dallas - Im just 15 mins N of Dallas - maybe he can help me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Honestly o would think to look at the Clutch switch if you have a manual. You also habe the inhibit bypass switch on the dash as long as you keep it in neutral(unless you want to move on startup). Those are what i would check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathinTX Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) Ive changed the Clutch switch You also habe the inhibit bypass switch on the dash as long as you keep it in neutral(unless you want to move on startup) Is that inhibit bypass switch - is for when you are in a difficult position in 4x4 and you turn the key to the crank position then push that button with out having to push in the clutch and it starts up THAT Button is called "Inter-Lock" is NOT Working - Is THAT what is causing the Problem ? this starting problem doesnt happen all the time but it is happening more and more often lately I have no idea what is or where is " inhibit bypass switch " unless you are talking abt that Inter-Lock Button on the left side of the dash ? Edited October 28, 2022 by PathinTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathinTX Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) I just got under the dash and pushed the Clutch switch in with my finger and turned the key and it started - started several times so I turned the Clutch Switch bracket down so it hits the clutch pedal more direct and it started up several times but again its not starting I changed out the Clutch switch - but heck I cant remember how i did it - the nut is on the backside of the bracket and you cant get a wrench to turn - no room at all I just remembered - you have to take the bracket off the wall to remove the Clutch switch off the bracket .. have to get ready to go to work - ( hopefully it starts ) I'll have to fool with this more tomorrow.. Edited October 28, 2022 by PathinTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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