OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Doin pads/rotors/bleeding this weekend while i'm home...ran head first into a bad headache... I'm not used to having to remove all the hubs and stuff....all the cars i've done brakes on, the rotors pop off when you take the caliper off, and are held on by the lug nuts...as you know, the pathfinder isn't like this.. I got 5/6 allen head bolts out of the hub assembly, and removed all 6 of the hex head bolts that bolt to the spindle through the rotor.. the 6th hub bolt is stripped by the allen wrench, and the wrench just twists out of it when I apply force...I had put wd40 on it already which is how I got the other 5 out... I can't get a good grip with vice grips, and broke off a drill bit and an ezout while trying those.... Went and grabbed my welder out of the storage unit, Either my weld breaks, or the bolt breaks every time I try and get it.. Wtf should I try? I need to do the brakes one way or the other...and I'm pretty sure I got a little weld splatter on the rotors anyways. Tomorrow I'm going to go at it with a drill bit the size of the shank, so I can get the hub off, maybe grab it with vicegrips once the hub is off and the shank exposed? Thoughts are appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle94 Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 (edited) we used a grinder and put a notch in the head. so we could attack it with a flat head screw driver. hopefully the head of the allen bolt isnt too messed up. once we did that it came out OK. i had ONE on each Hub. in fact both of those bolts are still on the trucks' hubs right now. Edited November 25, 2010 by Kyle94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Try putting on a better penetrant than wd-40 as a first step... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 I had this happen and I found that if I hammered a 1/4 inch allen key (slightly bigger than 6mm) in it jammed in there well enough to break the bolt free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 Try putting on a better penetrant than wd-40 as a first step... I don't really want to get pb blaster on it in the event I need to weld more I had this happen and I found that if I hammered a 1/4 inch allen key (slightly bigger than 6mm) in it jammed in there well enough to break the bolt free. I'll try it, I tried putting another one in there, and it just twisted out the same.. Would drilling the head off work? as in, could I then remove the hub and finish from there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 you could do that or just cut the head off with a grinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle94 Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 you could do that or just cut the head off with a grinder. i think thats what he means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 If I cut the head off with a grinder, I always do it horribly, will end up cutting into the hub, and probably fusing the bolt shaft to the hub surface. If I drill out a bit, I most likely won't do that...but it will work by removing the head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Yeah it should unless the stud is frozen to the hub inside the shaft too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 Yeah it should unless the stud is frozen to the hub inside the shaft too. Atleast then I could get a fresh surface to work from...as in weld a nut completely to the shaft, I can only get about 1cm of weld surface the way I have it now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 I know bolts can come in any coating you buy but in the case of allen bolts allot a majority of them are black oxide coated (or they're stainless) This black oxide coating does not suit well to the penitration small area welds. Zinc coated (less common for allen) and stainless (as common as black oxide) weld just fine Those dremel thin cut cutoff wheels work great for taking off bolt heads without hurting the part. you can always leave a sliver of the bolt head intact and break that off with a sharp impact when your ready to pull the part. x2 on cutting a flat head, that often my favorite option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 on mine I had to cut the head off with a dremel, the bolt must have been stuck in the hub because after i took the hub off the rest of the bolt came out by hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 (edited) Mine are the black ones...and I filed off the coating before I welded...the weld never broke at the bolt, it either snapped between the two surfaces, or sheared the bolt... I'll try the cut-slot idea first, then go from there...but Idk, this bugger is really in there... anyone know the stats on these bolts? I wouldn't mind replacing them with something with a hex head while I'm in there... Edited November 25, 2010 by OldSlowReliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 don't think there is enough clearance for anything other than the allen head type, I just went to the junkyard and pulled a few extra bolts, as long as you have the right Metric allen key you shouldn't have any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 don't think there is enough clearance for anything other than the allen head type, I just went to the junkyard and pulled a few extra bolts, as long as you have the right Metric allen key you shouldn't have any problems. I had, and was using the correct one, and it twisted right out....plus, I need to find a replacement for this one, because the only junkyard with a bounty of these is 180 miles south (at my dorm residence) and this needs to be drivable for my mother all winter, starting when I leave.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenrotors Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Try starting with (sharp) drill bits and a good variable speed drill. Start with a bit just big enough to drill out the inside of the hex head, then do a size larger, and larger until you've drilled out as much or all of the hex head. Patients is the key to this! Once you've drilled enough of the head off (so you can remove the entire hub assy), Take some heat to the outer hub assy., so it expands and hopefully loosens some of the rust, and see if you can get a decent grip on the remaining bolt shank. Slowly turn the remaining bolt back and forth, until it frees up enough to back all the way out. Then take a tap, and run it in and out of the hub assy, to clean up the threads. When you reinstall the bolts,use some (tiny bit) of anti seize. Then TORQUE the bolts to spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPathyGo Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 The metal on some of these may be quite soft, not lending itself to welding etc. Try using a drill bit just a little thinner than the bolt itself. E.g., if the bolt is an M8 try a 6mm drill bit. Drill straight into it. Just enough to hollow it out a bit. Be very careful not to angle the drill (into the hub) or go too deep (into the hub). Just enough for the middle of the bolt to be hollow. Then insert a screwdriver into the hollow space and turn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 I don't really want to get pb blaster on it in the event I need to weld more I would think you could just clean it up with Brakleen if necessary... but anyway, good luck, this sounds like a tough one. I was thinking of taking my hubs apart to check the bearings soon as I seem to have some play, so hopefully I don't have the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 I would think you could just clean it up with Brakleen if necessary... but anyway, good luck, this sounds like a tough one. I was thinking of taking my hubs apart to check the bearings soon as I seem to have some play, so hopefully I don't have the same problem. I'm assuming Brakleen is a brand name of brake cleaner...in which case NO! There was a HUGE article circulating the 4x4 sites and welding sites about a dude who either died, or was severely paralyzed due to welding on "dry" brake cleaner residue...all it took was a little puff of smoke.. I wanted to post that up incase someone else reads it and gets the idea to weld after cleaning with brake cleaner... just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 x2 last summer a guy from n4w had a first hand experice with this. He was out of acetone so he used brake cleaner. It took a few days but the end result was he had his lugs shut down on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailChaser Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 My advise is just drill out the head like someone said with a 6mm drill. When the head falls off you can then remove the hub. Take a propane torch and heat up the the steel around the bolt so that it expands.(like was said earlier) Don't twist back and forth. Clip on some good vise grips and pull up on the bolt as if you where trying to loosen it, but don't put enough pressure to make it slip. Holding that pressure TAP(not hit) the END of the bolt lightly. If you twist back and forth you run the risk of snapping it off inside the hole.(Which is a horrible problem with nissan OEM bolts for some reason) Tapping gives you the same rust fiction breaking efforts w/out the torque. WD-40 is old tech. It's now JUST a water displacer, or a cleaner. Not a penetrating or lubricating oil. Use some Blaster on it and you'll be fine. As for the brake cleaner... Don't worry yourself about it too much. It is only toxic if you weld over wet BC.(the heat converts the chemicals into phosgene gas) In comparison it like me saying "If you point that gun at yourself and pull that trigger it could kill you" and people hearing "Guns can kill you." So they vow to never have any contact with them. Yes they can kill you, but if used properly they are(safe) great tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Late to the party, but... Try to find the right sized torx bit socket that doesn't quite fit into the hole and hammer it in, then try rocking the bolt back and forth after soaking it with penetrant. If you drill the head off try using a stub drill, spot drill or even center drill as it is going to try to chatter and bind like crazy with a jobber length drill (what is most commonly sold). Follow trailchaser's advice from there, it is sound. Nothing wrong with socket head cap screws at all, probably the #1 fastener that I use, currently holding on my Warn hubs and Thorley headers. Hex sockets are advised but if you use a standard L key, always support the bend section when trying to get a stubborn bolt loose. FYI, the threads there are M8x1.25 and I used 30mm long SHCS. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 Got the sucker out! I tried the screwdriver crap...snapped HALF the head off, halfway down the section (not clean off) and the drill bit couldn't bite enough or get it centered, so I used the grinder to take off the head within a 64th of the hub surface, tried drilling on that, but the bits couldn't get any ground in what was left of the extractor. Put an awl in the seam of the hub where it separates, hit it with a hammer. Pried the cover off, which pried the remaining head off, the shank was FINGER LOOSE when I got the cover completely off...lol good thing to Got the hub disassembled, including the pesky snap ring thing..one last question How/where does the lug nut assembly that contains the outer bearing and such separate from the rotor? I have removed the 6 bolts that are in between each lug nut, but this thing seems like its practically welded to the rotor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 The hub will separate from the rotor. You need to pry the sucker out with a big prybar. It's a very tight fit. And on the Brake Cleaner thing, you can use brake cleaner, but make sure it's the non-chlorinated type. As long as you use that, you're fine welding on a part with residue on it. If it's chlorinated, the horror stories posted on the previous page apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 How/where does the lug nut assembly that contains the outer bearing and such separate from the rotor? I have removed the 6 bolts that are in between each lug nut, but this thing seems like its practically welded to the rotor... big hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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