unccpathfinder Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 So...I roasted the clutch this weekend and need to get a new one but I don't really know where to start...I don't want ot go with OEM replacement since this one only took something like 30k miles but it was beat on pretty hard offroad...basically my rig is designated offroad and the only time its really on road is to get from the house to where i'm wheeling and back with some occasional days that I drive to and from work since I enjoy driving it... So I was looking at RROR and had been talking to some suzuki guys about centerforces at the NOAS run and know a lot of them use them and they hold up to some abuse. I also know the LS1 guys hate them b/c they burn them up in no time if there are any HP gains over stock...that being said we're talking about 300+ HP vs 110HP if i'm lucky...I forgot how expensive clutches are and really don't want to do this job again for a long time an OEM replacement is about $200 Centerforce Dual-Friction Clutch - Nissan Pathfinder 1986.07 - 1996, 3.0 & 3.3L V6 is $640 Centerforce I Clutch - Nissan Pathfinder 1986.07 - 1996, 3.0 & 3.3 V6 is $545 Centerforce II Clutch - Nissan Pathfinider 1986.07 - 1996, 3.0 & 3.3 V6 is $625 that also brings me to the discussion of flywheels and whether or not an aftermarket one is better than an OEM replacement with an aftermarket clutch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastpath Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I put an exedy clutch into mine - same manufacturer nissan uses - ran me 150 for the kit. I dont have any experience with the centerforce, but i dont know why they would burn up with more HP? I mean, they are designed for more HP. I'm pretty sure nissan has a HD clutch kit too, for towing or something. Idk if you can get them any more though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowTied Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Yeah, the centerforce should be great - I have a centerforce II that holds just over 400ft.lbs in my almost 2 ton '69 chevelle. I would recommend the II to you without hesitation. The Centerforce I is supposed to be ~30% greater clamp force than stock, the II 60% more, and the DF about 90% more...or something like that. One thing to note with the DF: you must replace the disk and pressure plate as a matched set. You can order the disk separate for the I or the II. If the flywheel has not been resrufaced before, and there are not hot spots on it, it should be ok for a resurface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 (edited) I don't have much to offer, other than my experience with a Centerforce clutch in a trail-built '76 CJ5. I had originally wheeled the rig with a McCloud clutch, and it was really stiff but also much easier to handle, gauge, and slip a little when needed. The Centerforce had a totally different feel and wouldn't allow any kind of slippage or small power applications. There wasn't enough smoothness to it for finesse, only jerky power-down-now action. We got so tired of it that we put the old McCloud back in. Exedy makes competition clutches as well, and have been around since the 40s. This is also the brand that makes Nissan clutches. Edited October 12, 2010 by Kingman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashjt Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 (edited) I have a eclutchmasters stage II ceramic clutch. The kit is like US$195 and it's really good! I use the truck everyday and it's very street friendly for a ceramic, and WAY diferent off-roading, great for dunes/sand Edited October 12, 2010 by Slashjt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSrcing Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 http://www.specclutch.com/cars/Nissan/Pathfinder/1992/Single I ran a stage 2 in my 170 whp Integra that saw a lot of road coarse use. And a Stage 2+ in my highway RX7. Absolutely loved the way they felt, engaged, and held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovemaN Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 (edited) What would be the most important attribute for off-road abuse? I am suspecting that heat caused by slippage would be the first culprit. In that respect, a ceramic clutch sounds like a great idea. Even if a clutch can lock up 400lbs of torque that doesn't mean that it can operate smoothly when revved and slowly released while crawling up an obstacle. In that situation, control trumps brute clamping force. I would think that a stock-ish pressure plate with an upgraded friction disc would be ideal. Not so much pressure that it gets grippy, but durable enough for torturing it while crawling. Where did you get that puck Slash? PS. - The Centerforce stage 2 clutch that I put in my D21 immediately popped my slave cylinder so replace it while you're in there. Edited October 12, 2010 by KovemaN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSrcing Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 What would be the most important attribute for off-road abuse? I am suspecting that heat caused by slippage would be the first culprit. In that respect, a ceramic clutch sounds like a great idea. Even if a clutch can lock up 400lbs of torque that doesn't mean that it can operate smoothly when revved and slowly released while crawling up an obstacle. In that situation, control trumps brute clamping force. I would think that a stock-ish pressure plate with an upgraded friction disc would be ideal. Not so much pressure that it gets grippy, but durable enough for torturing it while crawling. Where did you get that puck Slash? PS. - The Centerforce stage 2 clutch that I put in my D21 immediately popped my slave cylinder so replace it while you're in there. That's why I specified I used on on the race course. It was subject to pretty f'ing extreme heat and torture but remained completely streetable and reliable through 1000's of miles or abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 PS. - The Centerforce stage 2 clutch that I put in my D21 immediately popped my slave cylinder so replace it while you're in there. This is what I was going to suggest, more clamping force puts more stress on the release components and will prematurely where them out. Just put a stock clutch and get you an atlas! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashjt Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 What would be the most important attribute for off-road abuse? I am suspecting that heat caused by slippage would be the first culprit. In that respect, a ceramic clutch sounds like a great idea. Even if a clutch can lock up 400lbs of torque that doesn't mean that it can operate smoothly when revved and slowly released while crawling up an obstacle. In that situation, control trumps brute clamping force. I would think that a stock-ish pressure plate with an upgraded friction disc would be ideal. Not so much pressure that it gets grippy, but durable enough for torturing it while crawling. Where did you get that puck Slash? PS. - The Centerforce stage 2 clutch that I put in my D21 immediately popped my slave cylinder so replace it while you're in there. I'll talk to my mechanic about the slave cylinder, but no problem so far. I got the kit at www.eclutchmaster.com If you don't find one, go to ebay and search "pathfinder eclutch" or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 Yea I want to be able to slip the clutch as needed...know the flywheel is gonna be purple and probably chunked up...my clutch master and slaves both need to be changed as I stand so will probably do that and see if there is a sst line available for the slave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowTied Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Remember, the CF clutches use special weights to gain a large part of their clamping force - which doesn't really actuate until higher RPMs making them great for daily driving and finessing the clutch and therefore should not be significantly harder on slave cylinders at all. I suspect the one you had was on its way out and the new clutch just finished it off. This may be in part the different clutch setting which changes where the piston sits on the seal - a somewhat common problem on some rear drum brake changes where the new shoes make the piston sit further into the wheel cylinder causing it to leak. I never had the problem of the slave cylinder going after the install of the CF II because my car has no slave cylinder - it is all mechanical linkage. The mechanical linkage however gives fantastic feedback. I was previously running a borg&beck style Hayes clutch and was terrible for clutch chatter when trying to finesse it (partly due to my gearing but ) mainly due to heavy clamping forces - my leg would get sore in stop and go traffic. The CF II is not a borg&beck but rather a diaphragm style much like the stock clutches and the release pressure is very similar. Not saying that CF is the absolute best, I am sure there lots of clutches out there that could do the job nicely. I will say a LOT of people use them on the strip and the street easily. I can't see why they wouldn't hold up well on the trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 my original clutch still had lots of life when the Tranny was was changed @ 190k a new OEM went in because it was already paid for. If you search on N4W you will find many members have run other clutches and gone back to OEM. 30k is short even for offroading, I'm guessing your flywheel was not properly surfced when you put the last one in. A stillen aluminum flywheel (300zx) may impove heat dicipation and reduce heat soak on the clutch. The machined steel contact surface Is just as tough as oem and replaceable if you warp it. The only downside is the lighter flywheel will not be on your side when Charging thru mud (less inertia in the driveline) everywhere else it should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Yea I want to be able to slip the clutch as needed...know the flywheel is gonna be purple and probably chunked up...my clutch master and slaves both need to be changed as I stand so will probably do that and see if there is a sst line available for the slave Someone should design wet clutches for 4x4's and by wet clutch I do not mean torque converter, I mean like what a motorcycle has; A metal to metal clutch pack, Imersed in the engines oil and can be slipped all day and may still outlast the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Someone should design wet clutches for 4x4's and by wet clutch I do not mean torque converter, I mean like what a motorcycle has; A metal to metal clutch pack, Imersed in the engines oil and can be slipped all day and may still outlast the engine. A motorcycle wet clutch isn't metal to metal there are friction disk in it too. I have seen quite a few burn up on big bikes like my 9. Mostly from them not being adjusted correctly though. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyb33 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 my original clutch still had lots of life when the Tranny was was changed @ 190k a new OEM went in because it was already paid for. If you search on N4W you will find many members have run other clutches and gone back to OEM. 30k is short even for offroading, I'm guessing your flywheel was not properly surfced when you put the last one in. A stillen aluminum flywheel (300zx) may impove heat dicipation and reduce heat soak on the clutch. The machined steel contact surface Is just as tough as oem and replaceable if you warp it. The only downside is the lighter flywheel will not be on your side when Charging thru mud (less inertia in the driveline) everywhere else it should be fine. A lighter flywheel is also going to hurt you in the rocks....when you are letting your clutch slip while you have only a couple hundred RPMs climbing up a rock, the more weight turning on your driveline the harder it is to stop and stall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Another vote for stock, with a new flywheel. CF clutches are fantastic for high power applications, where you're NOT abusing the clutch (slipping). Stock clutches seem to take this abuse better than any aftermarket "high-performance" models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 A motorcycle wet clutch isn't metal to metal there are friction disk in it too. I have seen quite a few burn up on big bikes like my 9. Mostly from them not being adjusted correctly though. James The inside of my 79 yamaha clutch looks like a larger version of the pathfinder LSD clutch pack. I slip it all day long when stopped on a hill in traffic. I'm just saying a multi-layer large scale design could pove itslef very durable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 The inside of my 79 yamaha clutch looks like a larger version of the pathfinder LSD clutch pack. I slip it all day long when stopped on a hill in traffic. I'm just saying a multi-layer large scale design could pove itslef very durable. Multi layers would give more clutch surface area. Thats why big trucks have two friction disk with a plate in between. It takes a large dished flywheel with drive lugs for the middle plate. It would basically add the weight of another flywheel to our little motor though. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted October 15, 2010 Author Share Posted October 15, 2010 got a centerforce II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piste Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 NOT a fan of OEM Pathy clutches. I am orig owner of 97 SE OR...orig clutch went at 70K ....new one only lasted just short of add'l 50K miles....OEM brakes on the other hand are phenomenal....13 yrs and 140K on my front rotors...and now finally need to replace....drums and shoes are still factory originals and lots of life left...anywho..back on topic...next clutch for me is a Centerforce for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Nissan (Exedy) clutches have been proven to be some of the strongest out there and can take an enormous amount of abuse. You've got a fluke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 NOT a fan of OEM Pathy clutches. I am orig owner of 97 SE OR...orig clutch went at 70K ....new one only lasted just short of add'l 50K miles....OEM brakes on the other hand are phenomenal....13 yrs and 140K on my front rotors...and now finally need to replace....drums and shoes are still factory originals and lots of life left...anywho..back on topic...next clutch for me is a Centerforce for sure. Operator error?? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSrcing Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Multi layers would give more clutch surface area. Thats why big trucks have two friction disk with a plate in between. It takes a large dished flywheel with drive lugs for the middle plate. It would basically add the weight of another flywheel to our little motor though. James Not in car and light truck applications. The steel plates between the friction plates is splined to the transmission input shaft and is no thicker that the steel plate that the friction surfaces are riveted to. It adds very little to the rotating weight of the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Not in car and light truck applications. The steel plates between the friction plates is splined to the transmission input shaft and is no thicker that the steel plate that the friction surfaces are riveted to. It adds very little to the rotating weight of the engine. We were talking about standard transmission not automatics. I have replaced many duel clutch disk on heavy trucks but have never seen a duel disk clutch on a standard transmission on a car or light truck. If you have please give examples. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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