Fix, or sell

[westslope]

Decision time.

 

The '93 pathfinder is running well but can grind into 4th gear. Moving from 3rd to 4th is easy. Wait. But moving from 5th to 4th requires one to double-clutch which I can do but friends and the wife find extremely difficult if not impossible.

 

Clutch/tranny work could run C$1,700 to C$4,000 +. There are relatively low-mileage '93 to '95 pathfinders on the market for roughly C$3,000.

 

Options

1. Fixing the current vehicle is cheap compared to buying let's say a 4- to 6-year old Xterra. The Xterras are considered to be top heavy and wobblier than the WD21 pathfinders.

 

2. I would love to buy a modern diesel-powered light-truck-based SUV with left-hand drive. Suggestions? I think they are coming. Either that or the gas-powered vehicles will become increasingly efficient.

 

3. Buying a new WD21 pathfinder with a functional transmission might be cheaper. And it might have less body rust or perhaps even a functioning gas gauge.... :-) I think I have our body rust under control but you never know. Been feeding the pathie Mobil 1 synthetic oil over the last 140,000 km (currently at 240,000) and the engine does not leak a drop. The engine alone could easily last another 150,000 to 200,000 km I would guess.

 

I suspect that I will save oodles of time by avoiding the shopping and purchase of a 'new' used vehicle.

 

Suggestions? Thoughts?

[5523Pathfinder]

Is there no possiblity of finding a used transmission and swapping it in?

 

At times, yes, it may be time to cut your losses and move on. But, you need to seriously evaluate your rig. Perform a full inspection. Look for more rust issues, other mechanical issues, ect. If its not that bad, I say fix. If not, then you are looking to drop a lot more cash on a used rig, that may need work also. Not many can find a rig and drive it for a year without having to dump some money into it. If you get a new rig, then you may also be looking at payments for several years to come. Can you afford it? What about the raise or drop in insurance?

 

By your description above, I say fix it and keep it for awhile. Save up your money for a new/newer rig down the road when its needed.

 

[silverton]

If it's only the wife and friends who have issues, then whatever? wife should have her own car to beat on, and why do you let friends drive it?

 

Any other used vehicle you buy is going to have its issues as well, but at least this one you KNOW.

[Dowser]

Find another Manual Pathfinder to buy, test out the tranny on a test drive, if its good, buy the truck and you have a Parts vehicle to take everything out of to fix whatever repairs will be coming down the road. A lot of this stuff you can do yourself man. Most of this stuff is not hard to do once you try it. Newer vehicles are a whole different bag. You can't even pump your gas without a check engine light coming on making you need to go to the service department to see whats the matter. Once you have a Tranny to swap, I'm willing to bet, theres members on this forum willing to help you out for some beer and some good times. Perhaps get your wife's friends over for them too.

[Precise1]

You don't even have 150k miles on it, it's not even 1/2 used!! As long as the rust isn't bad or killing the frame, this is what I recommend.

 

1)Remove the tranny yourself. Fair amount of work but not that hard, especially with qualified help, like some of the friends who drive it also...

2)Have a shop 'rebuild' it (new synchros, bearings, seals, etc). Shouldn't cost more than $800CAN max.

3)Buy all new clutch parts and install, $500CAN max.

4)Reinstall tranny with help from said friends.

 

You should be good to go for another 100k miles easy for $1,300CAN so you can save for the eventual replacement. Don't bother with Xterras, they are for traitors.

 

B

[westslope]

Sorry guys, love you do-it-yourselfers, but a second parts vehicle or actual major tranny work is out of the question for now. (I'd rather spend all my time figuring out why Thunderbird 3.1 just ate a big chunk of my organized and stored e-mails..... )

 

Im a big fan of just putting up with the sticky 4th gear. So is my mechanic who has a friend that managed through such stickiness on a pathfinder for 10 years. My mechanic's suggestion seems to have made an impression on the wife. We'll see.

 

Would like some certainty because if we keep the current pathie, I want to get new expensive shocks like OMEs or Bilsteins, and then put on new Michelin LTX tires soon.

 

Precise1: -hehe- Nobody I know in this neck of the woods is up for removing the trannie. Or nobody has the time. Sure, it is young and the engine could easily outlast the rest of the vehicle.

 

First, I should probably go look at the state of rust along the metal panel seam under the back seats and then look at top of the gas tank. Did some work in both places 2 years ago and have been rust-proofing since then.

Edited August 30, 2010 by westslope

[Precise1]

Ok, fair enough, just thought I'd mention it...

 

Im a big fan of just putting up with the sticky 4th gear. So is my mechanic who has a friend that managed through such stickiness on a pathfinder for 10 years. My mechanic's suggestion seems to have made an impression on the wife. We'll see.

Ok, in that case drain the tranny oil and fill it up with 5.1 liters of Redline MT-90. This might help some and will definitely help it last as long as possible...

 

B

[BoneZ]

Ok, fair enough, just thought I'd mention it...

 

 

Ok, in that case drain the tranny oil and fill it up with 5.1 liters of Redline MT-90. This might help some and will definitely help it last as long as possible...

 

B

redline is great stuff , well I don't like there engine oil all to much but for trans, transfer, and diffs it can't be beat.

[nunya]

Im a big fan of just putting up with the sticky 4th gear. So is my mechanic who has a friend that managed through such stickiness on a pathfinder for 10 years. My mechanic's suggestion seems to have made an impression on the wife. We'll see.

 

I beat on a HB with a f-ed up 4th gear and almost no clutch left for years. If YOU know the trick, why is anybody else drivign it anyway?

My chain of thoughs would be as follows though in order of correctness

1. B's suggestion #1 to do it completly right

2. silverton's suggestion to get it right for a while (depending on the health of the donor trans, AND you get a ton of extra other pieces, like what you would need for your gauge issue ) - my favorite choice

3. B's fluid swap suggestion and drive it how it is...

 

 

but to sell over that not to just buy sombody elses issue

 

and ain't ownign a wd21 kinda make you be a do-it-yourselfer if you wernt already?

[westslope]

Precise1: ... 5.1 liters of Redline MT-90. .... Did that a couple of years ago on the advice of this board, thank you very much again. Mechanic put in 5.9 litres... -hehe- (and I left it, the excess weeped out) Changing gears may have been slightly smoother but the problem with the 4th gear remained.

 

nunya: There's plenty of stuff I do myself but apparently I can do basic arithmetic and, well, seeing how I was trained to understand opportunity costs and all that jazz, allow me to share the following reflection:

 

Once upon a time, I used to grease the 17 nipples and it took me all afternoon (~4 hours). I used ramps to raise first the front end and then the back end. Now I pay my mechanic $20 to rotate the tires, grease underside, and check the transmission fluid. (Mechanic is excellent, BTW, if you live in SW British Columbia--C.J. Auto in South Surrey. The owner is a sharp guy and exceptionally straight. Lots of top-notch equipment. End of shameless pump.)

 

I meeself change the oil (once a year). I do small, simple labour-consuming things that do not require specialized tools. I have resumed sourcing parts at junk yards and am willing to drive two hours back and forth to Chiliwacko, B.C., because the yard is so well organized. Those are good uses of my time.

 

I have friends who might be up for hauling a trannie but one lives south of Ottawa in eastern Canada. The other one lives in some village south of Edmonton, Alberta. The owner of the house we rent reconditions collector vehicles (Stingrays, Norton motorcycles, TR-4s, etc.). He is probably more than capable of re-doing a transmission but never bothers. He pays a reputable shop to do it and tells them to take their time. If I change the fuel gauge sending units, I'll probably pay a shop do that. I do not possess any welding gear.

 

I understand the appeal. It must be like catching beautiful wild trout on dry flies of one's own design and make.

Edited August 30, 2010 by westslope

[nunya]

understand where your coming from and your ahead of the game havign a reputable shop that you can honestly trust (which I don't see a problem with you plugging as well you want to point in the right direction when it comes to help like that)

 

my only question... what are you welding on the sending unit? its a bolt in swap if your talking about what I think your talking about

[unccpathfinder]

As u shift from 5 to 4 go towards 2 then back to 4th....I have to do that for 2nd but towards 4th then back to 2nd in the winter in my truck...

[Tungsten]

I say keep for one reason:

It is really hard to find a WD21 with no frame rust on it.

[Precise1]

That is entirely untrue. Frame rust out here is a complete oddity limited to vehicles that were in salt states at some point. You just have to come and get (kill) them...

 

B

[adamzan]

Precise1: ... 5.1 liters of Redline MT-90. .... Did that a couple of years ago on the advice of this board, thank you very much again. Mechanic put in 5.9 litres... -hehe- (and I left it, the excess weeped out) Changing gears may have been slightly smoother but the problem with the 4th gear remained.

 

nunya: There's plenty of stuff I do myself but apparently I can do basic arithmetic and, well, seeing how I was trained to understand opportunity costs and all that jazz, allow me to share the following reflection:

 

Once upon a time, I used to grease the 17 nipples and it took me all afternoon (~4 hours). I used ramps to raise first the front end and then the back end. Now I pay my mechanic $20 to rotate the tires, grease underside, and check the transmission fluid. (Mechanic is excellent, BTW, if you live in SW British Columbia--C.J. Auto in South Surrey. The owner is a sharp guy and exceptionally straight. Lots of top-notch equipment. End of shameless pump.)

 

I meeself change the oil (once a year). I do small, simple labour-consuming things that do not require specialized tools. I have resumed sourcing parts at junk yards and am willing to drive two hours back and forth to Chiliwacko, B.C., because the yard is so well organized. Those are good uses of my time.

 

I have friends who might be up for hauling a trannie but one lives south of Ottawa in eastern Canada. The other one lives in some village south of Edmonton, Alberta. The owner of the house we rent reconditions collector vehicles (Stingrays, Norton motorcycles, TR-4s, etc.). He is probably more than capable of re-doing a transmission but never bothers. He pays a reputable shop to do it and tells them to take their time. If I change the fuel gauge sending units, I'll probably pay a shop do that. I do not possess any welding gear.

 

I understand the appeal. It must be like catching beautiful wild trout on dry flies of one's own design and make.

I live south of Ottawa what is his name I might know him. (family knows a lot of people here)

[TheCrow]

I have nothing more to add to what the guys already gave as good suggestions for repairs .

 

Since you know your truck keep it and dont buy someone else's problem , used cars always come with surprises.

 

For the wife and friends that have problem with the 4th gear let them shift the taxi driver style from 5th to 3rd

[westslope]

Ad: A tall franco-Ontario guy named 'Marc'. (BTW, close to 1 million people live in greater Ottawa.....)

 

TheCrow: Good advice. That's the key issue: unknown or hard-to-detect problems with older used vehicles. Better to deal with the ones you know and understand. That said, the climate here on the west coast is rather benign and I have seen many scratchless and apparently rustless XD-21s running about. Sellers are asking almost C$4,000 for some 1992-1995 models. At that price I would guess that the chassis is in pretty good shape.

 

The truth is that most Canadians are just as scared silly of the bush and mountains as most Americans. They buy houses with nice views, clear-cut all the trees and then plunk their big, enormous, scared-silly butts down on a chair and admire the view of mountains that they will NEVER visit or climb. (The neighbourhood looks boring and crass and property values suffer but that is another discussion.) I believe that driving around in an SUV and looking at the mountains occasionally give these people a really big thrill. Translation: there are many well kept pristine WD-21s out there that have NEVER been off-road. Rust could be an issue but is frankly less likely than a vehicle that has spent much time off-road. Mind you, searching and finding a good one can be a very time consuming process.

[Tungsten]

I am predicting a rise in value of older SUVs because of their mod-ability and ability. Try going off the road with a modern SUV.

[westslope]

.....

my only question... what are you welding on the sending unit? its a bolt in swap if your talking about what I think your talking about

Good question. For some reason I had assumed that removing and replacing the fuel sender unit and pump required welding. But I 'searched' and found this informative post by Tungsten that no welding is needed and a new unit might be rather inexpensive. That post is here.

 

I understand that the gasoline is under pressure and one must be ultra careful. The gauge works for the first 1/4 tank and the last 1/4 tank but goes all wonky in between.

 

Incidentally, I just examined the mid-seam area and other rust spots. Looks OK. It is a keeper.

[westslope]

I priced out a fuel sending unit today at a Nissan dealership in South Surrey.

 

C$311.60 + $17.21 for the O-ring that should be replaced. I was warned that if the bolts are seized and then break that the entire gas tank would have to be removed. Thus, it is advisable to soak the bolts in penetrating lubricant for a few days.

 

Tungsten reports spending around US$100 at a dealership for a new fuel sending unit not so long ago. I do not pretend to understand the pricing differences.

 

 

 

Re: grinding into 4th gear.....

 

One transmission shop recommended that I did not bother trying to fix the current transmission. This shop suggested I replace the transmission with a used transmission from a wrecker. $550 to remove and replace. I find the transmission, probably ~$700.

 

The Nissan place suggested a new transmission for C$2,073.71, labour C$864. The clutch is almost 10 years old. $500 for OEM parts and labour.

 

Putting up with occasionally grinding into 4th gear is looking more attractive all the time.

 

Tungsten: We have a little rust on the surface of the frame but not much. Regular high-pressure hosings and once-a-year Krown Rust treatments seem to have stabilized it.

[Precise1]

I have a used sending unit in the parts truck in the driveway. Do you want to buy it for cheap?

 

B

[nismothunder]

Your syncronizer is bad,thats all,you can double clutch into 4th right?It isnt a magor problem,I live with a truck that has a unsynced 1st and its no problem.If the fluid level is low then that may just be a problem,it was in my moms 00 f150 5spd.It not its the sync.

[westslope]

Your syncronizer is bad,thats all,you can double clutch into 4th right?It isnt a magor problem,I live with a truck that has a unsynced 1st and its no problem.If the fluid level is low then that may just be a problem,it was in my moms 00 f150 5spd.It not its the sync.

I agree nismothunder. I can double-clutch. But others find it tough, if not impossible. By sticking with the '93 pathfinder, overall we save a tonne of money. I think I owe it to my wife to fix the transmission.

 

The fuel level is fine. It was checked recently. Two years ago, I had the tranny flushed and filled up according to the specs suggested by the well-informed and wise posters on this forum.

 

If it is just the 4th gear syncro, then perhaps replacing that and the clutch will be not too expensive?

Edited September 11, 2010 by westslope

[nismothunder]

It depends a lot on the tranny,I'm not sure about nissans but late model 5 speed chevys and dodges its cheaper(and 6 speed fords) to get a used tranny put in,mainly because there such a pain to get out and take apart for the job.Nissans shouldnt be that bad because its a old truck(old style parts are usally cheaper then new style parts)And the reason the 4th gear went out is High rpm shifts in to it,thats that only reason I've seen a sync go bad in a tranny(unless it has 250k+ on it,then its just tired out)

[westslope]

Thanks nismothunder. I suspect that you are right that we were revving the engine at higher RPMs than necessary to shift from 3rd into 4th, and that wore the syncro-mesh.

 

You may be right that the WD-21 pathfinder transmissions are relatively cheap to fix, and that route is cost effective relative to switching in a brand new transmission.

 

I went to a specialist transmission shop earlier this week. First I e-mailed, then the company called and suggested I drive in so one of their mechanics could take the vehicle for a drive. Any time during business hours I was told. So I drive up through 50 minutes of traffic and arrive at the shop at about 12h40. I am invited to take a seat and wait until lunch hour is over. A few minutes after one, one of mechanics roles in and takes my keys. I offer to go with him. He refused. OK..... He comes back just a minutes later, not enough time to drive onto the nearby highway, and mutters a bunch of boiler-plate to the co-owner behind the telephone. I'm told they need to remove and open up the transmission to tell more. It will cost at least C$1,000 (or was that C$1,200? is it not important).

 

For all I know, the guy drove home to pick up a pack of cigarettes. Or maybe make a dope drop? (This is after all the Lower Mainland of British Columbia.)

 

As it turns out, the co-owner behind the phone had written down on the scratch sheet that 5th sticks not 4th. Whatever.... I guess. The information I supplied in the e-mail was basically a waste of time.

 

So I'm thinking that maybe I am the one who is stupid and deserves to be treated as if I am stupid. perhaps driving the vehicle indicates very little information regarding what absolutely should be replaced and what should also be replaced as cost-effective preventative maintenance. That would make sense.

 

I strongly suspect that this shop has competent mechanics. I have absolutely no idea if the shop makes only necessary repairs and charges reasonably. A 'reasonable charge' can be rather high IMO because you pay for what you get. But nobody wants to get charged for uncalled-for parts and repairs. In the meantime, the magic is gone. Two individuals I respect have suggested that I do not return.

 

One individual suggested I get 3 written estimates from 3 separate shops for removing and replacing the transmission after complete refurbishment. I am not sure I completely understand what complete refurbishment entails and if that cost estimate would constitute a useful guide but I may act on that recommendation once I figure this out.

 

I'm thinking I should renew my lapsed Canadian passport and shop transmission shops in NW Washington State. If I can find a reputable shop, I wouldn't be surprised if the both parts and labour are less expensive than SW British Columbia. That and the service could be as good or better. Normally I consider cross-border shopping a waste of my precious time unless the item is highly specialized. But seeing how I can almost hit the Peace Arch border crossing with a lobbed stone, it may be well worth it. Will the courtesy car insurance cover me for crossing the border into Canada?

 

P.S. The dealership recently replaced the front driver-side seat belt and it works superbly well! Passenger-side is on order.