silverton Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 So I decided to do a slight tune up today, new cap and rotor and spark plugs, also replaced my battery terminals. Upon trying to find the #6 spark plug after taking the boot off, I was sitting on the engine, well... more like the radiator and broke the upper spot where the hose goes. yay. And my real problem, I can't get the spark plug to thread in straight, I tried several times to get it to go in correctly, it felt too tight, so I'd back it off and try again, each time I did it it felt so, so I thought maybe there was some dirt/gunk in the threads. So I went with it, just in case it had misthreaded I fired it up and there was an occasional miss, so I pulled the plug back out, and I indeed started stripping the threads. So now what? It's only the first couple that are borked on the spark plug, but I fear I effed the head up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Ok, when you start a spark plug, especially when it is one you can't see, you have the spark plug in the socket with an extension on it and you start them by hand. You can not cross thread a hole if you do it by hand. Now, when you put the spark plug socket or tool in the old plug, did you stop and notice the angle the tool or extension was at to you could match it for reinstallation? First, look back at the spark plug hole with a mirror and flashlight (shine the flashlight into the mirror) and verify that the hole and seat is clean. Do yuo see any thread shavings? Try to vacuum it out (adapt a rubber line to your shop vac) Refer to the first sentence. From the front of the truck (best angle for me), the plug tool should be amost vertical, the bottom maybe 5 degrees to your right? The bottom should be maybe 10 degrees towards you?? Make sure you are in the hole properly with the mirror and flashlight then proceed to hand tighten while slowly wiggling to tool about 1/2" all directions until you feel the threads catch. You should get at least 3 full rotations before you use a wrench. This should work for you if you haven't fuggered the threaded hole yet. DO NOT RUSH. BE PATIENT. TAKE A PEE FIRST. HAVE A CIGARETTE. TAKE YOUR TIME. If you fugger this, you WILL be sorry. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathy Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 aluminium will strip before the steel, if you stripped steel, i feel the worst. hope that i'm worng.. but............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 It's only the first couple that are borked on the spark plug, but I fear I effed the head up. I missed this somehow. The spark plugs are steel, the heads are aluminum. If you buggered the threads on the spark plug, you probably made a mess of the head as well. I think you need experienced help to try to salvage this. Can you ask the mutant hobbit Mr 510 to look?? Any experienced neighbors or relatives around?? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 I missed this somehow. The spark plugs are steel, the heads are aluminum. If you buggered the threads on the spark plug, you probably made a mess of the head as well. I think you need experienced help to try to salvage this. Can you ask the mutant hobbit Mr 510 to look?? Any experienced neighbors or relatives around?? B Yeah, the threads on the spark plug are messed up, so... yuh. And I was threading it by hand, I learned a few years ago not to start bolts/nuts/etc with a wrench/socket, had to replace several wheel studs on my first car. Mister510 says he can fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Might I recomend, to everyone, to get whats called a back tap. It slides into the hole and expands on the piston side of the hole It then starts the cleaning of threads from the least used bottom threads and works its way up. bringing all your chips and dirt up thru the top. I used this for the first time years ago to clean up a dicked up hole and the plug went in so smooth that I pulled all the other plugs and cleaned their holes as well. I now run this tool every plug changed to prevent buildup of dirt carbon and anti-seize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Never heard of that before, did a search and even sears is advertising one! Much more expensive than other stores but at least it's something they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Yea, that is an interesting gadget...might have to buy one down the road.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 One tip for hand threading in tight spots, or places you can't reach (like between the plenum) is to stick a piece of gas or vac line on it and use that to get it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manifesto Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 One tip for hand threading in tight spots, or places you can't reach (like between the plenum) is to stick a piece of gas or vac line on it and use that to get it started. +1 we use that trick in our shop all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Ya, I have a knurled aluminum handle with rubber flex line and a spark plug boot at the end. It's a tool used by VW/Porsche people for aboot 30 years. For the Nissans I always just used a good spark plug socket and an extension; I never considered digging out the 'special' tool. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Yawn,I'm not saying you screwed,but if it is indeed Farked and you need to pull the head,the head is not junk,even if the treads dont clean up with a good chasing from a tap,you can put a Helicoil in to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Mister510 came through and was able to clean up the threads good enough to get the spark plug in there. He told me to leave it in there for at least 100k miles... hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.510 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 I missed this somehow. The spark plugs are steel, the heads are aluminum. If you buggered the threads on the spark plug, you probably made a mess of the head as well. I think you need experienced help to try to salvage this. Can you ask the mutant hobbit Mr 510 to look?? Any experienced neighbors or relatives around?? B Mutant Hobbit? Yeah, the threads on the spark plug are messed up, so... yuh. And I was threading it by hand, I learned a few years ago not to start bolts/nuts/etc with a wrench/socket, had to replace several wheel studs on my first car. Mister510 says he can fix it. I fixed it and Silverton owes me another pizza. He made the classic VG mistake: Didn't blow the sand and crap out of the spark plug wells before pulling the plugs! A grain or two of sand wedged into the threads in the aluminum will mess the threads on the sparkbolt up quite nicely... and they will, in turn, screw up the threads in the head even more. I took my Re-Coil and Keensert kits to his place but only had to chase the threads. It sucked getting the tap started straight. A Back-Tap would have been really nice here and I will be getting one! For anyone else that has to fix one of these: My Re-Coil kit uses standard Helicoils but has a piloted reamer/tap that's great for fixing stuff like this in place. It has a 'chaser' tap section on the nose followed by a tapered reamer followed by the tap section for the Helicoil. It makes fixing sparkplug holes in place super-easy as it follows the existing hole very nicely. I only had to use the chaser/pilot section to clean up the goobered threads on Silverton's motor. You can Helicoil the hole in place by filling the tap voids with grease to catch the chips and then cranking the Re-Coil tool straight in (after being sure the piston is not at TDC!). Then tie a length of heavy thread or dental floss to the break-off tab of the Helicoil and add a dab of superglue so it cannot come loose. Feed the thread up through the center of the Helicoil. Crank the Helicoil in until it's 1/2 turn past flush with the install tool. Pull the install tool up a bit, turn 90 degrees, and push down and it breaks the drive tang off the Helicoil. Pull the thread out gently and as long as the Helicoil drive tang is still attached you're good to go. If you screw up the Helicoil repair you can always open the hole up even farther and install a Keensert. They make special Keenserts with sealing rings specifically for sparkplug holes and they work great but are more difficult to install. They can also be done in-place so you don't have to remove the cylinder head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Mutant Hobbit? I dont know, it just came out... Good How To guide, but I'll stick with my time tested method of not buggaring up the threads in the first place. I might need to pass this info to my brother-in-law. He pulls, cleans and regaps his spark plugs in his Mazda Speed 3 about once a month. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Man, all the cool people live away from me. Hahahaha...too bad there is not a search function to find people near you. Sorry to topic jack, glad you got it fixed. Good job 510! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Time serts also make a sparplug insert. I have not used them on heads yet (I think stainless threads in alumium parts is a good idea and will likely be upgrading my next set of heads) But I have used them on my UCA bolts. Very good, I would def trust them for all other aplications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.510 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Yeah, Timeserts are great and they are really thin-walled which is nice in tight places. The be-otch with them is if you mess up an insert. They're really difficult to get out (even with a milling machine) without seriously buggering the parent material and/or destroying drills and/or endmills. The nice thing about Keenserts is that if you mess up the threads in the insert you can replace the insert with zero damage to the parent material. I use Keenserts in virtually all threaded holes in production CNC tooling when the fixtures are built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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