DoctorBill Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) I took the Pathfinder out for a test drive around the neighborhood. Went thru all the gears. No funny noises. Shifted fine. Came home, parked on the concrete driving pad, left the engine running, walked around in front and saw this.... Have any of you seen a 66 year old man cry ? Well.... Here is a shot of the front lower TB cover and where the oil was dripping from while the engine was running. It stopped when I killed the engine. I am assuming the Lower Front Crankshaft Oil Seal (which I had trouble inserting) was placed in there incorrectly. But - it could be one of the Camshaft Oil Seals.... This was not apparent while the vehicle was parked on my gravel driveway which is covered in old Pine Needles - when I ran the engine before. The soil hid the oil coming out. How can I get at the bugger w/o taking the entire shooting match apart again ? At this point, even a Beer and a Cigar isn't going to help. I need to sit down and contemplate the Universe for a while. Nice - screwed up for all the world to see. DoctorBill - who screwed the pooch... Edited August 16, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Ouch!! Maybe if you can pull the fan clutch/fan, shroud belts and the harmonic balancer then you can get to the seal without touching anything else? Or is the lower TB cover in the way and that means the WP has to come off? I'm operating on the assumption that it is the crank seal... Have that beer and cigar. Tomorrow is a new day. Oh, thanks for the information on the artist. I have always been impressed by him and had no idea he was so prolific. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) Everything runs off of the Main Crankshaft Pulley (Damper). The lower TB Cover Plate has to come off, all the Belts have to come off, then the Damper. That includes the Timing Belt ! The Oil Seal is behind EVERYTHING.... At this point, I am ready to call a Repair Shop tomorrow and ask what they'd charge to replace the Front Main Oil Seal. The seal is $15, I think. Most of the cost would be labor. Probably 2 hours @ $90/hour. It is beyond my meager abilities, I think. As Dirty Harry said, "A man has got to know his limitations !" No, the Water Pump would not have to come off. I think it could be done w/o removing the Radiator which is a real hassle. Go back to Posts 30 and 31 and you will see where I commented about the oil seal and Magregor's comment about inserting it with a plastic sheet from a margarine container. I wonder if one of those "Special Tools" is needed - that mechanics have in their toolboxes ? I would imagine that the inner spring that goes around the seal and holds it tight against the shaft came off when I tried to get it over that second thicker shaft section. Right now, I am reluctant to disassemble all that stuff and do it again - not knowing if I might repeat the entire *my "vocabulary" is so small* up again... ...and if it is one of the Camshaft Oil Seals...that would be worse, I suppose.... Has anyone boogered up the job as bad as this on this forum ? If so, they probably kept quiet about it.... Merde ! DoctorBill Edited August 16, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackspawn Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 DAMN!... sorry Doc. I hope you figure it out. I want to change my TB also. Yep, beer and cigar time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I think it could be done w/o removing the Radiator which is a real hassle. Go back to Posts 30 and 31 and you will see where I commented about the oil seal and Magregor's comment about inserting it with a plastic sheet from a margarine container. I wonder if one of those "Special Tools" is needed - that mechanics have in their toolboxes ? I would imagine that the inner spring that goes around the seal and holds it tight against the shaft came off when I tried to get it over that second thicker shaft section. Ok, that all makes sense to me (I have been following all this closely, my timing belt and entourage will show up next week). That includes the Timing Belt ! The Oil Seal is behind EVERYTHING.... Damn. Right now, I am reluctant to disassemble all that stuff and do it again - not knowingif I might repeat the entire *my "vocabulary" is so small* up again... shrug.gif I suspect not, I think you have learned something (the hard way), but I understand your reluctance... .and if it is one of the Camshaft Oil Seals...that would be worse, I suppose....Has anyone boogered up the job as bad as this on this forum ? Um that would be a big yes!! I'll see if I can find it later/tomorrow. To try to determine what seal is leaking, start the truck and let it run until you have a consistent leak. Shut it off and see how long the leak is consistent. If it shuts down almost immediately, it is the crank seal, if it keeps leaking then tapers down consistently it is a cam seal. Reason being, the cam seal leak has a lot longer to travel before it drips and the leak will 'run down' once it is not under pressure. The crank seal leak should leak consistently and then stop almost immediately, correct? I've chased coolant leaks the same way... Consider that with another beer and cigar. Then enjoy the evening. Maybe look at it tomorrow. Not that you have nothing to do, but this can sit for a few days, no? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackspawn Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I was thinking about ordering my TB kit Monday; now I'm really nervous to try it, this is my daily driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) I REALLY don't want to remove the Radiator AGAIN.... Blackspawn - if you do it yourself, you have ALL my *my "vocabulary" is so small* ups to beware of ! Don't be discouraged. Merde happens. It was my fault. Order your kit and make it happen. What made this job a big deal is the fact that I had never done it before. Didn't know exactly what to expect or how to handle the tools and such. Things DID go fairly smoothly, didn't they ? I am still alive - maybe pissed a bit... That was why I wanted to do this Thread - so folks could at least experience watching someone else do it. All my life, I have avidly WATCHED people as they work on something new so I could then use that knowledge when I needed it. IT HELPS. I have never replaced Oil Seals before. The Camshaft OS's just slipped into place. That damned Crankshaft OS didn't want to go over that lip - the inner, larger diameter part of the shaft. I wasnt ready for that.... A "special Tool" would probably be a tapered ring going over the lesser diameter portion allowing one to slide the Seal up the oiled taper onto the larger diameter shaft w/o making the seal invert. Either that, or some sleeve doohickie to expand it w/o letting the inner spring come out. I wouldn't mind proceeding except for having to take the whole freaking thing down to the Oil Seal. Having to take the Timing Belt off will make it a "bugger all" job. The Water Pump is installed - won't have to come off - it is done. The big IF is the Radiator. If I could put a thin metal or wood plate over the inner part to protect it from my puncturing it, maybe things could work out. And if that Big Bolt holding it in place comes out easily..... Thank God the Timing Belt lasts 100,000 miles ! I want to find out what a shop charges to replace the Oil Seal - I'll call a local Nissan dealer/shop. Wendle Nissan of Spokane. If it is Hideously expensive, then the decision will be made - I am CHEAP. ...and this is not a vehicle I will need until the snow comes in November. Just remember - $700. $700.......versus $300.....hmmmm. DoctorBill Edited August 17, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I was thinking about ordering my TB kit Monday; now I'm really nervous to try it, this is my daily driver. Hey BS (LOL, I like that acronym), remember, you are not required to change anything other than the timing belt and at least check the tensioner. If the seals are not leaking, you do not have to change them. I bought everything, just in case and I believe my crank seal is weeping slightly so I figure I have to change it... Do not be afraid, proceed with confidence. Give yourself some breathing room first though. Dr Bill, you got your parts from courtesyparts.com and I got mine from WWW.FACTORYNISSANPARTS.COM, a member here who runs the online parts dept at a dealership in Texas. Rob is a great guy and I placed my order by phone. Everything in the CP kit minus the belts but plus the bypass and extension hoses + idler arm bushings and O rings for a rebuild cost $230+ shipping. Rob seems to be 10% less than CP and knows exactly what he is talking about. Please consider him a resource in the future, you won't be sorry... Make sure to mention you are a NPORA member! WWW.FACTORYNISSANPARTS.COM Rob Lacy Parts Department 1-866-742-0297 1-214-491-6565 B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 The only things I changed when I did this job were the timing belt, water pump, and tensioner. Nothing was leaking *knock on wood* and the tstat is still good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 IMHO - Blackspawn....you should go for it ! Be brave , lower your head and charge ! Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. What have you got ot lose ? $400 or more to be precise. Go buy the Timing Belt and Tensioner Pulley at a Nissan dealer or NAPA or Schucks (Gatorback). Buy a 27 mm Socket Head - ½ inch one. Buy a long ½ inch cheater wrench at Harbor Freight. The TB and Tensioner are about $100. If you run into anything else, buy it as needed. If the Water Pump isn't weeping at the weep hole, you could take a chance that it will last another 50,000 miles. (?) Just Checked... Schucks - Crankshaft front oil seal $5 ! Beck/Arnley. Wow, maybe I should buy three of them in case I screw another one up ! http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productdetail....925&PTSet=A Courtesyparts.com - $5 http://www.courtesyparts.com/12279n-seal-o...cPath=5572& NAPA - couldn't get oil seal, front crankshaft....dumb web site. Don't know - at these prices, I might go broke... BTW folks....from the pdf manual (Adobe Reader)...QUOTE, Front Oil Seal. 1. Remove Radiator Shroud and Crankshaft Pulley. (Gee - only two steps!) 2. Remove Front Oil Seal. BE CAREFUL NOT TO DAMAGE FRONT CRANKSHAFT 3. Apply engine oil to new oil seal and install it using suitable tool. end quote. There you go - easy as pie ! Use a suitable tool.... DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrano1992 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 BTW - what is the vertical thingie with the Red Question Mark on it in the lower right quadrantof the photo ? IACV Air Regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackspawn Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 IMHO - Blackspawn....you should go for it ! Be brave , lower your head and charge ! Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. What have you got ot lose ? $400 or more to be precise. Go buy the Timing Belt and Tensioner Pulley at a Nissan dealer or NAPA or Schucks (Gatorback). DoctorBill Thanks everybody; I'll march forward and order the kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrano1992 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Just Checked...Schucks - Crankshaft front oil seal $5 ! Beck/Arnley. Wow, maybe I should buy three of them in case I screw another one up ! Don't know - at these prices, I might go broke... Just for your reference, Nissan part number of Front Main Seal is 13510-V5000. BTW folks....from the pdf manual (Adobe Reader)...QUOTE,Front Oil Seal. 1. Remove Radiator Shroud and Crankshaft Pulley. (Gee - only two steps!) Remove t-belt and crankshaft sprocket... There you go - easy as pie ! Use a suitable tool.... Tube rolled from thin plastic sheet (margarine container, plastic bottle, etc.) and covered with one layer of adhesive scotch tape (to prevent unrolling) is a very suitable tool... Insert in into seal, press seal at place, then carefully pull out tube, slowly rotating it inside the seal (to prevent seal lip deformation). It's not so hard task. Now you have so me experience. Do it again, with more accuracy. Clean seal hole and crankshaft neck thoroughly before installing new seal, apply motor oil to neck, seal and "margarine tube". I wish good luck to you, you can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Just for your reference, Nissan part number of Front Main Seal is 13510-V5000. I wish good luck to you, you can do it. This is very interesting....see post #30 http://npora.ipbhost.com//index.php?showto...st&p=419838 where I gave the Nissan Part Number I got from Courtesyparts.com. The Nissan part No. of the Front Main Oil Seal was 13510 - 88G00. Why the part no. difference? I will probably go buy two from Schucks tomorrow. Beck/Arnley part no. 0523288. Nissan is on the other side of Spokane. I save a lot of plastic from containers and Bubble packs - a habit from making R/C Model Aircraft years ago. I can roll up some of that. Still - I want to see what a shop would charge to do it. I'm tired and sore. Blackspawn - good for you ! Have a thought about not removing the Radiator. Guys - could he do it w/o taking the Radiator out ? If just the Timing Belt....? Get a big piece of cardboard to put over the Rad's inside part.....to protect it. DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Part number 13510V5000 was superseded by part number 1351088G00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrano1992 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 The Nissan part No. of the Front Main Oil Seal was 13510 - 88G00. Why the part no. difference? Sorry... Part number 13510-V5000 (and 13510-D0100) was superseded by 13510-88G00. Different part numbers for the same part - it's ordinary for Nissan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Called a shop that just worked on my son's Neon...they look in the book and tell me 5 hours ! That's $400 ! So, I'm off to buy a couple of the seals and open the bugger back up myself. I'm wondering if I am right about the oil leaking out. It stopped pretty quickly after I killed the engine and I had trouble getting it in... yah - has to be ! If not, I'll only be out $5 each. Bye.... DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 removing the rad is not necessary but you risk dinging it a little as you fight with removing the fan and other crap. You should find that it is much easier to get in there now that you have been there before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackspawn Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Where sure I get my belt from the dealer or somewhere like courtesyparts.com? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 If only this had already been answered... http://npora.ipbhost.com//index.php?s=&...st&p=426267 B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackspawn Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 If only this had already been answered... http://npora.ipbhost.com//index.php?s=&...st&p=426267 B What I mean is I know that some places have cheaper built TB; I just didn't want to get one that in 45-50,000mi the sap sucker breaks. I think that I will just get the one Doc is using because of the lines already on the belt to help you line it up correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Where sure I get my belt from the dealer or somewhere like courtesyparts.com? nissan dealer. I get 95% of my parts there. You just can't beat oem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Mine's a Dayco from Advanced Auto. Never broke one (only shreaded it a bit when the tensioner stud broke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackspawn Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) nissan dealer. I get 95% of my parts there. You just can't beat oem. Thanks, I know courtesyparts.com has all oem parts. I just like that the oem TB has the alignment line on the them! Edited August 17, 2009 by blackspawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) partznet.com is a local dealership near me that also does online sales. Not sure how their prices compare. No aftermarket stuff there. and the Dayco has alignment marks... just don't trust the arrows (wink) Edited August 17, 2009 by k9sar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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