MichiganAve Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 You guys ever use these? Any good? Only costs $150 to buy: At Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=45742 Manual: http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/45000-45999/45742.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdpathy Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I think it would be cheaper to just go to an alignment store and have them do it for 50 dollars. It would be much easier than that I would assume... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SuperSon Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) Its not practical IMO Edited February 24, 2007 by SuperSon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Funny you mention these... Last week while I was getting my WD aligned, I was chatting with the technician. He admitted that in his opinion (based on 20 years of doing alignments on race cars), doing a manual alignment is far more accurate than the flash bang computerized laser systems he used in the shop. The real advantages of the laser systems are speed (at least 10x faster) and they allow even stupid knuckle draggers to do a pretty decent job. None of that annoying math or geometry to do - the computer does it all. But he did a repeatability study on his race car on the laser system and found errors as much as 1/2 degree from check to check. Doing it the manual way, his repeatability error was less than 1/10 degree. Soooo, if you took the time to learn how to do it and did it very carefully, the manual method is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 damn that's expensive! i think i'll pay someone to do mine.. i am lazy and have very little math skills........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Even with a machinegiving the numbers, toe is hard to get very precice with on our trucks. There are too many pivot points in the steering. Almost every time I do mine I'll get it set, then as soon as I tighten the TR adjusters it jumps outa spec . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 (edited) Just in case anyone else is interested in being able to do simple, reliable, and highly accurate DIY alignments for moderate investment, what you will need includes: To do accurate and easy camber checks (no math required to check, only req'd to simplify shim selection): An angle finder: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...15&autoview=sku And this adapter makes toe-in MUCH easier and accurate to measure (only a little math): http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...+0&autoview=sku And then to do caster, a set of pivot plates like MichiganAve showed us. And some math skills! And a tape measure. And a level surface to park. Yes, there are many other ways to do this, including some lower cost, creative, and very accurate (if done correctly) techniques using straight edges, string, protractors, greasy tiles, and patience. There are also lower cost (and much higher cost!) versions of the angle finder. I just concluded these were the best value for our needs. For my nephew's and my family's fleets (8 vehicles), we are easily able to cost justify the the full monty. This year we'll be getting the camber gauge and toe in adapters. Caster rarely varies (except by damage) so the pivot plates will be an addition when we find a rippin' deal on them. Edited April 3, 2007 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vengeful Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Or....you could just get the lifetime alignment from Firestone and bring your Pathy to Mr.Reverse in Utah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 (based on 20 years of doing alignments on race cars) funny u say that b/c at the roush and bill davis shops here i've seen them manually pulling strings and using those dials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Or....you could just get the lifetime alignment from Firestone and bring your Pathy to Mr.Reverse in Utah. Personally, I'm tired of knuckle dragging professionals F-in up my truck. On the previous alignment, the moron used a big-A impact wrench on the T-Bar adjusters without loosening the lock nuts and stripped the threads. And I've yet to see any of them properly torque the UCA spindle bolts - they just set the impact on kill and ram them in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vengeful Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 True, but when it's 3 degrees outside with a layer of ice and snow on everything, I'd rather let the knuckle draggers f- with my truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 - they just set the impact on kill I need to get me one of those impacts sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I've had to do numerous eyeball alignments in parking lots and on the side of gravel roads. It works well enough to get me home. I even eyeballed the number of washers to shim my UCA's out with and got it dead even on both sides. The tire/alignment shop said it was very close to stock as it sat. Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blamtro Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 True, but when it's 3 degrees outside with a layer of ice and snow on everything, I'd rather let the knuckle draggers f- with my truck. Until you have to go back and fix what they F-ed up at your cost because the F-ing knuckle draggers manager/boss claims the shop did everything correctly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meangreenmachine Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 I do alignments every day. I have used race strings, laser and the new visualiner from john bean. They are all accurate if done correctly. But all their own downfalls. Race string=do your own math. Lasers=have to be level. Any user errors are also possible. In my opinion take it to someone you can trust (probably not the garage that is advertising cheap alignment specials) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 :sniff: my alignment guy is awesome, but the TM LCA's stick "out" too far thus not allowing the camber to be adjusted enuff to correct the camber fully.... it is spaced out as far as it can go, and the camber is still "top in".. i think/believe this was one of the first TM susp lifts they did, as i know it's been on the truck more than 7 yrs.... so i am thinking this was a :oops: on TM's part, adn will be emailing them to ask if this has been a problem on their first lifts. the bracket that holds the lca needs to be about 1/4" more towards the "other side of the truck" to be correct.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Slick, if it still has stock UCA's I wonder if a set ot RC's may help correct that? Unless I am mistaken, the SL/RC arms are a little bit wider 88 was it you that I recall mentioning that? (You have comparied them side by side) *Go's and looks for the pic posted with them side by side *EDIT* I think I found the pic, but we will have to wait and see if 88 can put it back on his server... since it seems to be gone now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 I changed the filename so I could find it easier. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Another option you (Slick) are qualified to attempt is to move the ball joint out on the UCA. Use a round file to elongate the holes, and then a spot of welding to fill the holes back in so the BJ can't slip back and.... Voila! I'm going to be doing that tonight (in the opposite direction) as I dropped the suspension back down an inch after having another CV joint tear, so I'll be down to about 1.5" susp lift. With the RC UCA's, I now have tops leaning out a bit. Moving the holes about 1/8" oughta do me dandy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 (edited) I received my camber gauge last week and started playing. conclusion 1) Simple to use, quick. Why didn't I get one of these sooner? I've probably spent $400 in wheel alignments in my life.... I could have bought a lot more tools for that! conclusion 2) The alignment tech was right, the flash bang computerized system wasn't that accurate! Using the string method, I found about 1/8" toe OUT. I reset to 1/16" toe in and she handles sooo much better. conclusion 3) I wouldn't recommend buying the toe in checking adapters for the camber gauge. Using string and a couple jackstands doesn't take too much longer, and if done correctly and carefully, it would be more accurate and aligns the wheels to the rear wheels as well (thrust alignment) conclusion 4) My front wheels are about 3/4" offset to the side relative to the rear wheels. Likely due to suspension lift with stock panhard. That made the string method a touch more challenging, but still pretty easy to do. I am still playing with getting my camber exactly where I want it (1/4 to 1/2 degree on right, 0 on left for a little road crown compensation) so I will take some pictures the next time I play. Edited April 9, 2007 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmgar99 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I got a 3 year unlimited alignment for $139USD at an Express Tire place here in SoCal. I've used it twice in 6 months, no cost and no questions asked.....some hefty sand launches and woops in Ocotillo caused my drivers side to out less than 1/4 inch (Camber). Most R50's don't go out of alingnment under normal driving...Just the way they're designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 (edited) Still doing my own camber and toe in alignments. It is so rare for caster to change over time that I don't much worry about it - I'll either eventually get the turntable plates or take the vehicles in every 10 years or so to verify still OK. Camber: Still using the SPC 91000 gage. Works extremely well. Very repeatable. Toe in: Using the string method to get pretty darned accurate, and then fine tune by analyzing how the vehicle feels while hitting small bumps or when initiating turn. It takes a little thinking, but it results in very finely tuned alignment. If the vehicle tends to want to dart a bit left when the right front wheel hits a little rise and/or turns in a bit abruptly when I turn left (either of which puts more load on right front) that means I am a bit too toed in. If it tends to want to dart a bit right when the front right hits a rise and/or kinda hesitates to turn in when turning left, then too toed out. I found I can feel the effect of even 1/4 turn on one adjuster using this method. Results: Tires are wearing perfectly, handling is better than ever - and definitely better than "professional" jobs. It just takes patience and some thinking. Edited February 27, 2008 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasPathfinder Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Funny you mention these... Last week while I was getting my WD aligned, I was chatting with the technician. He admitted that in his opinion (based on 20 years of doing alignments on race cars), doing a manual alignment is far more accurate than the flash bang computerized laser systems he used in the shop. The real advantages of the laser systems are speed (at least 10x faster) and they allow even stupid knuckle draggers to do a pretty decent job. None of that annoying math or geometry to do - the computer does it all.But he did a repeatability study on his race car on the laser system and found errors as much as 1/2 degree from check to check. Doing it the manual way, his repeatability error was less than 1/10 degree. Soooo, if you took the time to learn how to do it and did it very carefully, the manual method is better. I agree, I do manual alignments on the Spec Miata more times than I care to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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