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Yes, Alex is spot on. Your cv’s up front are designed to operate within factory geometry, which basically from full compression (at the bump stops) to full extension (strut top out). Putting a lift coil inside your strut assembly may increase the frequency that you hit that top out, or full extension of the strut, but even with the increased angles your cvs are still within the stock operation angles that they were made to function within from the factory. With spacers, however, since you’re moving the entire strut assembly down 2,” your cv’s can now extend to your struts full extension PLUS that 2,” causing them to bind up and break. Yes, the angle that the cvs sit at on the road are gonna be equal, the problem is with actual off road use they can drop passed the angle they were made to operate within if that makes sense. That aside, we’re all human and all make mistakes regardless of who’s right or wrong. Everyone’s trying to just help each other out here and sometimes things can get miscommunicated, so let’s try and keep the personal attacks off the forum. We’ve got a really great community here of a ton of awesome folks.

Echoing the last couple replies, springs alone don’t lead to CV breakage. Neither springs nor spacers change the max extension length of the strut, but only spacers can change the max operating angle of the CV, which at around 2” of spacer lift, becomes problematic. An SFD does correct the operating angle of the CV. I think there was a minor clash in the concept/purpose of the SFD in some of the replies, but all are technically accurate. Historically, the SFD kits were previously sold as having a strut spacer that’s equal in height to the subframe spacers, and it could “stack” with whatever springs you have. That is, if you bought a 4” SFD and already had AC springs, it would yield a 6” lift on 4” SFD, but you’d still be at risk for CV binding. But if you just wanted only 4” of lift, you’d have to run stock springs. I find the notion of matching strut spacer and subframe blocks totally unnecessary, and the kits we’re producing don’t require that; you will mix and match springs and spacers to get the desired lift amount, and then offset the lift with whichever subframe blocks will keep the “net” lift to around 0”-1.5” to avoid CV binding. Case in point, I run 3” strut spacers, OME HD springs (about 1.5” lift for my setup), with a 3” SFD. I could run the exact lift setup and 4” SFD if CV angles were a concern, but I’d rather have the ground clearance.

I'll leave it simply at the fact that @02_Pathy and @PathyDude17 have got the idea right about spacer vs spring lifts and their effect on suspension. Spacer lifts work, but you're more likely to break a CV off-road, and almost guaranteed with a taller spacer lift. As far as the SFD issue, I think you guys just had a miscommunication; it seems that from the beginning you both expressed how they work correctly, just maybe not entirely clearly. I've been meaning to make a diagram demonstrating the different kinds of lifts. Now that I have a week off between semesters I suppose it's high time. Don't want to get anybody riled up, just want to help people modify their rigs in the way which will suit their intended use best! -tacking on because Micah replied while I was typing, to say his explanation is pretty dang good about spacer vs spring.

actual tire measurements are 32.5x11.5 on 15 with 3.75” backspacing Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

how about the 33s? (that actually measure 32.5x11.5 after inflation on 15” rim) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mention=36148]hawairish[/mention], if that’s true, I think I would follow your lead with a 3”SFD instead of 4”, however, I’ll want it to match up with the LR9448s in back. I’m happy to take functionality over aesthetics & I’m not sure 1” will be noticeable (except when I’m around @02_Pathy &[mention=39745]stpickens[/mention] with their eventual 4”. We’ll all be under[mention=37543]towndawgR50[/mention] by a notable amount anyway - TownDawgR50 or is it TopDawgR50?)

One thing I generally love about this forum compared to other car forums, is people genuinely talk to each other with respect and aren’t always trying to one up each other. That being said, let’s all take a deep breath and a step back on this one....lol. I think everyone is trying to help and a lot is just getting lost in translation. Here’s what I know from my personal experience with several different set ups. Spacer lifts and spring lifts both increase the static angle the same amount, thus effecting CV boot wear and camber the same when at normal ride height. The difference is in the maximum angle at full suspension travel (full droop). The stock R50 struts have about 3 inches of down travel before they max out, and anywhere within that 3 inch range the CV is generally safe from binding. With a spring lift, you’re only working within that 3 inch range of travel. A 2 inch lift will use up 2 inches of down travel, leaving only 1 inch left (hence some people experience top out). But the CV won’t bind up and Grenade itself at full droop because it is still at the same maximum angle as stock. Now say you have a 2 inch spacer lift on top of the stock strut and spring assembly. At static ride height, everything is at the same angle as it would be with a 2 inch coil spring lift. But, in this case you still have the full 3 inches of strut travel available. So if you unload the front suspension and let it hang at full droop, you will now have a full 5 inches of downward travel and the CV will be beyond it’s safe limit of travel. If this happens while the front axles are spinning the CV will bind up and something will most likely break. That is why people say spring lifts are safer, because they don’t let the CV travel past it’s stock limits for downward travel. With spacers, 2 inches is generally the max you can go and “probably” not break anything. If you put in anything larger than a 2 inch spacer without a sfd then probably not becomes definitely will break something. Now SFD’s really come into play when you want to go past 2-2.5 inches of lift. Dropping the sub frame let’s you go beyond 2 inches while still keeping the CV’s at a safe angle and also keeps camber within spec by bringing down the lower control arm mounting point. Most people with a SFD achieve the lift through a combination of both strut spacers and lift springs, then drop the sub frame whatever amount is needed to bring all the angles back into a safe range. So if you have a total lift of 4 inches with both spacers and springs, then you use a 4 inch spacer to bring the sub frame down to match it. Here are a couple pictures of my front end that were taken while in the process of doing the sfd. The first is with full lift in place (combination of 2 inch spacers and 2.5 inch spring lift) but without the sfd. You can see the CV and lower control arm angles are all out of whack. Then with the sfd in place everything is back to lining up much more reasonably. Hope this all helps! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes both lifts via coils and spacers change the angle of the axle to some degree and thus accelerate wear on boots and such. With the spacer lifts and depending on which size you get they physically move the strut down however many inch spacer you put up front. So at full droop when offroading the strut will drop farther down because the spacer pushes it down that much and that's how some people break and bind CV axles. With the coil lift at full droop itll stay the same as stock because the strut is still in it normal operating range and isn't being pushed down by a physical spacer, the only thing that prevents it from dropping too far is the maximum travel of the strut. I'm running a 1inch spacer with OME HD coils and dont have issues with binding or blowing up a CV, the only problem I have is CV boot wear. Not trying to start an argument or anything as theres tons of information out there with different styles of lifts and testimonies I'm just adding my 2 cents into the pot. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I personally like the wide stance look, but it definitely results in a lot of junk getting thrown down the side of the truck. I have a pretty wide stance past the fenders and I’ve just kind of gotten used to always looking like I just drove through a mud pit even if I just went through a puddle at wal mart! Lol.

Same reason I went with a 4" SFD with 6" of total lift. Ground clearance. @RainGoat

Pines to Spines Offroad. They’re getting ready to do the first fittings & trials. Your patience will be rewarded by a better product.

Looks great! I’ve heard a lot of good things about those tires, let us know what you think of them. I’m a long way off from needing tires but will strongly consider those when it’s time.

When I put on the tube bumper, I picked up some led cube lights that I wired in place of the stock fog lights. They were about $50 at Autozone and put out a surprising amount of light. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is an old pic so it doesn’t show the current height of the truck, but the stance is the same. This is with 16x8 rims with 4.26 inch backspacing, and a 1.5 inch wheel spacer, so effectively 16x8 with 2.75 inch total backspacing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bax’s response is my reason. 4” SFD means moving the subframe down 1” lower to the ground than a 3”, neither affecting my total lift, just the amount of correction. That’s to say that that my setup would have the same angles as a non-SFD truck running just 1.5” of lift. If wanted to completely correct my lift, I’d need a 4.5” SFD.

That’s good to know. While I really like the stock LE wheels, I don’t want to remove my fenders & I don’t want the wheel to stick out past the fender - I like driving with windows open & don’t need to eat the dirt, plus it’s miserable on a camping trip when you lean up against a filthy truck. @02_Pathy (man, I just can’t get that to link) did a fantastic fender trim job that looks stock for all intents & purposes but his truck still gets pretty painted with mud.

The Afton Cyn water crossing turned me around when I was last there as I had my ex-Brother-in-law’s Sequoia borrowed from CO Springs (feeling a little better about it as we put 4,000 mi on the truck after Afton Cyn). There’s a nice little camping spot tucked into the NW side of that first outcropping W of the Kelso-Cima Road and a surprisingly pleasant BLM campground up in Mid Hills-ours had a great Western panoramic view.

Hardly an expert, but I’ll throw an opinion out. My exposure to the 3.3L is limited, but it’ll move the 32”s on stock gears. The MT will allow you to put more revs to it when needed, too. However, I’m a proponent of gear changes from a wheeling perspective, and the cost of used gears is relatively cheap and usually justified. I did mine and a buddy’s for about $300/ea truck.

Suuuuuuure ? Glad to hear it's still going well!

I swear I just answered all of this somewhere, but here we go again. SFD kits are in the works courtesy of @hawairish and @TowndawgR50, but nothing is for sale yet, it would be custom work for now. Again, an SFD will not fix your binding, a spring lift will. An SFD is a fancy term for a body lift in the front. It doesn’t affect suspension geometry at all.AC springs lift a minimum of 2”, individual results may vary. OME, as I stated above, is not suitable for giving a 2” lift. A spacer is required to attain that, and those spring have been noted to settle to lower lift heights as time progresses. Remember that OME spring are built to handle well, not necessarily lift high, as noted above and in many other threads, including my build thread. On 4x4parts.com, the $167 springs are OME, the $180 are 2” AC lift springs. A shop handled my front suspension install and alignment for $200, I think they cut down my extended length bolts from the spacers.

I talk to Micah every day. He did in fact newly install 9448’s in place of his 9447’s.

Do more research. My AC coils have never and will never bind up my cv axles under any conditions, where as my spacers would have. A strut spacer means you’re lifting on top of your strut, which means your strut assembly is now pushed down, as opposed to a spring lift which lifts inside of the travel limited by the strut (hence experiencing top out with a coil lift but not with a spacer lift). You will never bind a shaft with a coil lift, period. It simply isn’t possible, the halfshaft is always operating within its designed travel. Just ask @XPLORx4. His 18 years on AC coils going throughout Moab and whatnot can attest to that lift. To the people who have busted multiple CV’s on spacers, @TowndawgR50 and @system_f can attest to that. As far as the SFD goes, understand an SFD is usually run with a 2” lift in conjunction with it (4” body lift with 2” suspension lift with SFD). If you just do an SFD with no spring lift your ground clearance doesn’t change at all in the front, except by half of your increase in tire size. A 6” SFD on 33” tires has .5” more ground clearance than a properly set up 2” lift on 32’s that can tuck tires correctly. And honestly, if you’re serious about your rig you’ll find more and more reasons to go with a spring lift. It improves handling and load capacity, which is important for taking turns on a lifted vehicle. It also helps give your suspension more downward force in increasing articulation and keeping traction.

Took a 99% amazing trip to Afton Canyon, the Mojave Lava Tubes, Kelso Dunes, and the Calico Hills. Mostly wonderful, exploring the Mojave Road and other trails nearby. Did bite off a bit more than I could chew doing the water crossing at Afton (P0130 and P01325 codes came right up), and may have overdid it on the clutch trying a slightly too difficult section of road in Calico. Looks like I have some more work to do on Hermon!

Just checking in with an update after the most recent suspension work. I’ve put about 500 miles on it with the sfd, custom front coils, and limiting straps and I’m still very happy with how it all worked out. Other than the struts topping out, I love the way it rides with the new front suspension set up, and the limiting straps worked out perfect to take care of the top out. I haven’t had a single issue with top out since installing the straps. At the risk of jinxing myself..I’m going to say I’m done messing with the pathy for a while and am just going to drive it, lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So 15 years later...I bought my 95 xe for 700 cash with 167k miles..couple dings and needing every bushing replaced but I think I stole it..

More OHV fun on a day off