I want to swap in LEDs for my dash lights, so naturally I have a few questions before I proceed.

[BlueKrogan]

Some of my bulbs are burnt out, like my hazard light button, so while I have it cracked open, I might as well upgrade all the bulbs. Everything is still legible, but it's still somewhat dingy looking, especially compared to modern cars. Yes, I know it's unfair to compare it to modern cars, but if I can modernize these lights, it would be totally cool lol. Anyways...

 

1) Obligatory "How hard is it?" question.

 

2) What bulbs would I need for whole thing? I assume the instrument cluster, HVAC controls, and everything else like the defrost/hazard light buttons etc. and gear shifter uses different bulbs from one another.

 

3) I notice there is a very slight green tint, more so with the instrument cluster. Is this due to the bulbs themselves, or is there like a green film overlay? I might go green just to be different, but if I put white bulbs for example, will there still be a greenish tint? 

 

4) I've heard of hotspots due to LEDs having a narrow spread of light. Do LEDs with a wider light spread like a traditional bulb exist?

 

I have the curvy dash if it matters. I saw someone here with a square dash put blue LEDs and it looked really clean. 

[Slartibartfast]

1) The bulbs in the cluster are easy. HVAC shouldn't be too bad. I vaguely remember seeing the bulb for the shifter under the plastic cover, but it wasn't burned out, so I left it alone. I've replaced the bulbs in most of my dash switches (rocker-style) with component LEDs and resistors, soldered in. The factory setup for those is a little tiny tungsten bulb with its leads wrapped around a rubber base, so I doubt a drop-in LED conversion is available for them. They're fiddly to get out of the dash, fiddly to disassemble, and fiddly to solder, but the end result looks a lot better than a switch with a dead bulb. I haven't tried this with the round-dash push-style switches, but I assume it's a similar arrangement inside.

 

2) I think the big bulbs in the cluster are 194, and the little ones and the HVAC bulb(s?) are 74. I could swear there was a list around here somewhere. Do not trust the bulb finder on superbrightLEDs, I made that mistake once.

 

3) The original tungsten bulbs, even the tiny ones in the switches, have tinted rubber condoms over them. The cluster itself is not tinted AFAIK, with the exception of the orange cluster in the early square-dash. The switches I've had apart are not tinted either, with the exception of the hazard switches, most of which are red where the light comes through (use a red LED). 

 

4) I haven't tried LEDs in a WD21 cluster, but a friend of mine got hot spots when he used cheap LEDs in his Chevy. (Don't use cheap LEDs, they crapped out and started flickering.) Those had bare diodes facing out in a cube shape, so of course the light pattern was weird. I've seen bulbs with a frosted plastic cover over the diodes, which I would expect to work better. It may take some trial and error to get the look you want.

[BlueKrogan]

Cool, thanks for the quick reply!

 

I assume the warning lights (battery, check engine, etc) has a film over them, so I should stick with the white ones for those. The redline on the tach I guess is also colored via film, so if I put a different color like blue for example, it shouldn't conflict with the redline too much, if not at all.

[Frenchy]

I did get an LED kit off EBay for the AC controls. They work well. For the dash it would be best to just the regular incandescent bulbs. Sometimes LED bulbs can get finicky and not always shine light correctly in something not designed for LED's. 

[Slartibartfast]

The idiot lights do have colored film in them, but I would match the LED color to the film color if possible. Tinted films don't change the color of light, they just block light that isn't that color. I would not expect a blue LED to push much light through the red film on the tach. 

 

After the fun my friend and I had with the cheap LEDs in his cluster, I stuck with tungsten bulbs for mine. I did however change out the dome and footwell lights, less for brightness than for current draw (so I can work out of the back all day without killing the battery). Those are great. The directionality of LEDs bit me on the map lights, though--the bulbs I got fit the sockets, but the diodes are facing the plastic housing, not the lens. One of these days I'll bother fixing that.

[BlueKrogan]

1 more question: I assume the tach and speedometer needles will remain orange regardless of light color? Not a deal breaker, but I guess the needles are a pain to swap out, and aren't worth touching?

[BlueKrogan]

1 more question: If I decide to do all the idiot lights, are these all the possible lights my cluster has? This is from a hardbody since I can't find a Pathfinder one, but it's pretty much the same cluster I have. Are there any lights missing from this diagram? It looks like there's room for 1 more indicator beside the 4WD and cruise control lights; I've also seen a tire carrier light before (I assume that's between the ABS and low washer fluid lights) and mine is equipped with one.

 

I just want to get a total inventory count of bulbs (and their respective colors) to order if I decide to go ahead with it. I've seen photos of the back of the cluster, and it seems like not all the circuit board paths are labeled. I'm definitely leaving the turn signal lights alone as I heard that you have to do something extra to not make them blink like mad since it will think you have a light out due to LEDs drawing much less power.

 

[adamzan]

You'll also have the door ajar and tire carrier warning light if your truck has one of those. They are dead center in the row of warning lamps.

[Slartibartfast]

I doubt the flasher would notice the bulbs in the dash so long as the outside turn signals are still incandescent. +1 on the door and tire carrier lights. IIRC the round-dash cluster from my parts rig has a blank spot over the tach too. 

[BlueKrogan]

Alright everyone, I finally did it, and I am pleased with the results, so here it is:

 

 

In this photo, I had the lights dimmed at the lowest setting to reduce light glare for viewing purposes, so it's pretty vibrant in person. I opted for green for the clock and trip odometer because those bulbs didn't come in purple. I think green and purple look good together, and I matched my double din color scheme (green background screen and purple buttons) to match. HVAC controls and gear shifter are next, and will go green with those. I can't believe how clear the cluster clock is! LOL

 

I did the idiot lights, but I had to switch some of them back to their original bulbs. The low gas light, OD Off light, brake light, and one other (ABS I think) would stay on after starting the engine, although some would either be dim,  or flicker a bit. The low gas would be really dim, and would flicker a bit, yet with the stock bulb it wouldn't light at all. (I really don't care that much since there's a fuel gauge to begin with anyways) My Tire Carrier light doesn't work at all, with either bulb when it is ajar. 

 

I'm not too broken up over some of the idiot lights not working with LEDs as that was more of a bonus objective for me anyways, but I'm dumbfounded. Maybe because the cluster is nearly 30 years old, and it's not working like it used to? Maybe not enough power is being used up due to the low drawing power of LEDs? I don't know. 

 

My only gripe is I wish Nissan would've put 1 or 2 more illumination light bulbs on the bottom or sides, since the temp and gas needles are noticeably dimmer. Seems really odd that all of the illumination lights just run along near the top of the cluster.

Edited January 14, 2023 by BlueKrogan

[Slartibartfast]

It's Barney the purple dashboard! Reminds me of my mom's old Passat.

 

Regarding the stuck on/flickering idiot lights, I doubt the cluster is defective. Some circuits just weren't designed with LEDs in mind. It doesn't take much to light an LED, and some circuits intentionally send a small current through the bulbs for one reason or another. Ford did this with the brake light circuit on some of the '90s F-series trucks. The transmission computer monitors the wire going to the brake lights. It sees + through the brake light switch when the brakes are applied, or - through the brake light filament(s) when they're not. The higher resistance or forward voltage or something of LED lights interferes with the computer finding ground--so swapping all the brake lights to LED on one of those makes the torque converter act up. 

 

On a similar note, how's your alternator? I didn't think to mention this before, but the light on the dash is wired to the alternator, and that circuit is what tells the alt to wake up and do its thing. It may not work right with an LED in there. Check your battery voltage with the engine running if that wasn't one of the bulbs you switched back.

 

The inop tire carrier light might be the switch. IIRC it's the same as the door switches. You may be able to open it up and clean the contacts inside.

 

For future reference, what bulb sizes/part numbers did you use? Might help the next guy.

[BlueKrogan]

Which light on the dash is connected to the alternator? 

 

For the tire carrier light, wouldn't it still stay on if the contact points are dirty, since in order for the light to turn off the contact points have to form a complete circuit to shut off that light? 

 

Anyways, for future reference the curvy dash cluster uses 5 of the 194 sized LED bulbs. These were the ones I used as it has a 360 beam spread:

 

https://www.superbrightleds.com/194-led-boat-and-rv-light-bulb-5-smd-led-tower-miniature-wedge-retrofit-95-lumens

 

As a bonus, they aren't polarity sensitive, so you don't have to worry about making sure which side should plug in the negative or positive side of the socket. 

 

As for the idiot lights, and the trip counter and clock on the corners, they use the 74 sized LED bulbs. For the corner trip and clock screens, I used the 360 beam angle as well since I figured that the light has more surface to cover as opposed to a small warning light graphic. I used these for the clock and trip, and plan on using it for the HVAC controls as well down the road:

 

https://www.superbrightleds.com/74-led-boat-and-rv-light-bulb-3-smd-led-miniature-wedge-retrofit

 

And yes, you are absolutely correct, you MUST match the correct LED color to its respective warning light color, if you want the original warning light color. I put an amber light in the battery light socket as a small experiment, and it came out amber lol.

 

Oh, speaking of which, the battery and low gas warning lights DO NOT use 74's like the rest of the warning lights, they actually use 194's. Again, I used a narrow beam for those (the battery anyways) since it's unnecessary to have a wide spread of light for a warning light.

[BlueKrogan]

So I just realised that you were talking about the alternator light aka the battery light. 

 

Now I'm reading that changing that to an LED is a big no no. Should I just change it back to the incandescent bulb? 

[Slartibartfast]

Battery light, yeah. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I haven't messed with it myself, but I've read the same stuff it sounds like you just did. I would put an incandescent bulb back in that spot. 

 

The tire carrier switch works opposite to how you're thinking. It completes the circuit to the warning light when released, not when pressed. Same way the door switches, the brake light switch, and the hood pin for the alarm work. Opposite to how the button for a doorbell works. The bulb gets ignition-switched + from the cluster and ground through the tire carrier switch. 

[BlueKrogan]

@!*%. It's such a pain in the ass to take everything apart to just replace one bulb, but if it needs to be done, it needs to be done. I'm wondering if I should just revert all the idiot lights back to their original bulbs, except maybe for the cruise (it still works) highbeam (that crisp blue looks nice) and the 4 wheel lock (shouldn't be crucial to its operation) I guess I should change the A/T light back too; I hope the battery won't suffer too much for 2 days as I'm off Wednesday, and I'll have time.

 

Out of curiosity, would those "error free" LEDs help?

Edited January 16, 2023 by BlueKrogan

[Slartibartfast]

If you've got a voltmeter, test across the battery with the engine running. That'll tell you quickly if the alternator is charging. 

 

I doubt the other lights need to be changed back unless something's acting up.

 

The error free ones might work. They're supposed to look enough like a standard bulb (electrically speaking) to not trip dead bulb alerts on cars that check for that. Seems like they'd do the same here.

[Strato_54]

The error free ones are the only ones I buy, even when its not necessary. They just seem to work better and last longer. 

[BlueKrogan]

Alright, so stupid question: would the CAN Bus LED lights work for crucial circuits? 

 

https://www.superbrightleds.com/194-can-bus-led-rv-light-bulb-5-smd-led-tower-miniature-wedge-retrofit-85-lumens

 

This one for example says that the power consumption is 3 watts. I was thinking of initially getting these but I made the dumb assumption that an SUV from 1994 didn't have such advanced circuitry, let alone a CAN Bus system lol

 

As you can see, I'm pretty electrically challenged lol 

Edited January 17, 2023 by BlueKrogan

[BlueKrogan]

Update: So I just tested the alternator; first I tested the battery in its resting state, and it is showing up as 12V. Good.

 

Now for the moment of truth: after starting the vehicle, I tested the battery, and its output is now 14.5V!! Hallelujah!! 

[Slartibartfast]

Nice! And that's with the LED in the dash? These alts may be less finicky than the ones I've read about. Or, looking at the circuit diagram, the bulb check relay might be passing enough power through its coil to wake up the alt on its own.

 

RE the canbus bulbs, some newer rigs monitor current to see if the bulbs are burned out, and mistake the lower draw of LEDs for dead incandescents. These trucks aren't nearly that fancy, but they were designed around incandescent bulbs, and some of those bulbs may serve other purposes in their circuits. In either case, the resistor wired across the canbus LED (black rectangle with numbers on it in the picture) dumps enough power as heat to fill in for the LEDs' efficiency and makes the bulb work like the original in the circuit. Looks like the draw of the canbus 194s is reasonably close to that of the incandescents they're replacing. 

 

[BlueKrogan]

Yep, that's with the LED.

 

Now another update: the clock and trip screens, I now notice they consistently flicker very slighly every 4-5 seconds, but the main purple dash lights are fine. Any ideas? Alternator?

 

Another update: the clock and trip screen lights were totally fine this morning :s lol

Edited January 20, 2023 by BlueKrogan

[BlueKrogan]

I'm thinking of doing my button switches. The HVAC one is easy, but I don't want to spend so much on shipping just for 1 bulb, so I'm wondering are these the ones that usually go in the button switches (hazard lights, defrost, cruise, dimmer, E-AT, etc) and if so, do they use the 3mm, 4mm, or 5mm? 

 

https://www.superbrightleds.com/neox-led-bulb-high-power-instrument-panel-led