ahardb0dy Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 So the hardbody I just bought has water in the oil, not sure yet if the timing chain wore a hole thru the timing cover or if it is a head gasket, so what steps need to be done after the problem is fixed? Is there any way to flush the block, well I know I can flush where the anti freeze goes and I can fill it with oil and run it than drain and repeat a few times. The radiator will need to be flushed good new plugs, thermostat and all the normal parts should be replaced I would think. I think the timing is off on this engine, it will crank but no indication that it is even trying to start, I replaced the plugs today with some I pulled out of something just to see if it would make a difference, it didn't. I did not check for spark yet, and I did not check to see if it's getting fuel to the rail yet. If I can find another engine I think it may be easier to swap it than to get this one back to working order, but haven't found any yet. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Once you fix the water leak issue, I would run a can of engine case cleaner, flush it with cheap oil, replace the filter and put in what ever good oil you favor. Not what I used before, but can't find it now, you get the idea. Just don't drive around with it like someone did... http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Gunk-Motor-flush/_/N-260b?itemIdentifier=523555_0_0_ Do a full tune up to set a maintenance point, including all drive train fluids. You plan to keep it a while... As for the no start... spark, fuel, air, timing and compression; just go down the list. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaBigPerm Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 If it's the VG-series v6 powering your Hardbody, then there's no timing chain to wear any holes - it's a timing belt. If you're staring at a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup commercial ("You got oil in my coolant!" "Yeah, well you got coolant in my oil!"), it most likely points to a pretty serious head gasket failure or worse (cracked block). If it's been in FL the whole time, I think we can rule out being frozen solid and cracking the block, so it was probably overheated and FUBAR'ed a head gasket or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's the ka24 or z24, and it has a timing chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 At this point, I'd check for spark and fuel pressure (or "at the rail" .. like you stated). After that, I'd check for compression between the cylinders for a head gasket failure. Then again, come to think of it, hopefully the engine didn't overheat and warp the aluminum head if there is a compression failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovemaN Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 When changing the timing chain on the KA24 you WILL get water/coolant in the oil pan if you don't remove it. Do as Precise1 said and flush it after you get it running. There is a very good possibility that the distributor is not installed correctly and the timing is off. Have you tried rotating the distributor to see if it makes a difference in getting it to run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I haven't done anything really, I'm trying to not put more weight than I have to on my knee right now, I just wanted to see what needed to be done. Yes, it's the KA24E and as Adam said it has a timing chain. I've read the guides were a problem on these engines and when the guides fail the timing chain can wear a hole into the timing cover and that can be one way oil and water can mix, of course it could be a head gasket issue as well. Two things the previous owner told me, 1. it was making noise since he bought it (in 2011) and 2. he noticed it was using water than he parked it and it wouldn't start after that. The radiator appears empty, no water visible, and the oil on the dipstick is very milky, Do you think I should drain the oil/water mix just to get whatever water is in the block out? I may check to see if it has spark this weekend, I did try to start it and I know this engine is an interference engine, the engine turns over fine, no noise or anything, it just doesn't sound right. I'm wondering if either the chain skipped a few teeth knocking the timing off but not enough for the valves to hit the pistons, or the chain failed and broke so cranking it is only turning the crank but not the cam? Guess won;t know until the front cover is removed. If the problem turns out to be timing chain related and no damage is done to the head or valves and I have it repaired, flushed and replace all the parts that were effected by the water/oil mix, the engine should be ok after that you think? Thanks. Edited May 14, 2014 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Because this engine has 4 injectors the TB is just a metering device for the air right? So I would need to check to see if it's getting fuel at the schrader valve on the fuel rail, or check the fuel pressure at the same valve right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 If it has been sitting with water in the cylinders at all, I would be afraid the cylinder walls got rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 well it was mixed with oil so, hopefully some of the oil coated everything, It's only been sitting about a month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The radiator appears empty, no water visible, and the oil on the dipstick is very milky, Do you think I should drain the oil/water mix just to get whatever water is in the block out? I know this engine is an interference engine. If the problem turns out to be timing chain related and no damage is done to the head or valves and I have it repaired, flushed and replace all the parts that were effected by the water/oil mix, the engine should be ok after that you think? Thanks. Make sure to drain everything out of the radiator and engine case. Yes, I would drain it, put in some fresh (cheap) oil and crank the starter for a while. Maybe even pull the plugs and put a bit of oil in the cylinder and crank it as well, but that might make the first start hard. You should be able to remove the valve cover and cycle it by hand to see if all the valves are lifting all the way. That should tell you if it has interfered. If there is no timing chain hole, then you would almost have to pull the head to make sure that isn't the problem. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 with the valve cover removed you can see the cam gear and chain, with the front cover removed you can see everything, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Well people say that timing chain guides are an "issue" with these things but I'd have to disagree. It's more like lack of maintenance that let's them get to the point of causing serious damage, any plastic or nylon part that has a tensioned metal chain rubbing against it is going to need to be replaced at some point in time. Usually upwards of 150K miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 I was just going from what I read, I did read some where that the guides used to be all plastic, and the updated guides are now metal backed, how true that first part is I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 I think this weekend if my knee cooperates I plan on removing the air filter housing, cleaning it, covering the TB opening and any open hoses, remove the fan shroud and fan, and than de-greasing the outside of the engine, it's pretty dirty. After pulling the valve cover to check the chain ( make sure it's still intact) and checking how the head looks. Also want to check for spark and fuel. If I can't tell anything by doing that, than possibly I'll pull the front cover. May drain the oil/water also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Sounds like a plan! I like these situations if my primary ride doesn't depend on the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 I can't get the truck to my mech, until June so I am curious as to why it won't start, plus I want to clean the engine and parts I remove. Anything I can do to make it easier for him will get it done quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 June holy crap. Why not try fixing it yourself, you got time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 If you're paying him by the hour anything you can do yourself to save him time is money you keep your pocket. Plus it will help you bond with the the new truck. I learned more about mine by tearing things apart that I could learn from the repair manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 If you're paying him by the hour anything you can do yourself to save him time is money you keep your pocket. Plus it will help you bond with the the new truck. I learned more about mine by tearing things apart that I could learn from the repair manual. Same here. I've always learned more with my hands than by reading books and manuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 I'm limited to what I can do right now because of the knee, not supposed to be putting any weight on it at all. I use the crutches when I have to work more than a few steps. I want to do the few things I said to try to see if I can figure out why there is water in the oil, and to see if it will start, anything major he can do it. He doesn't charge by the hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyPathy Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 You say no water in radiator, is there excessive amounts of water in oil pan? Like just barely above full line, or 3/4 of the way up dip stick? Water in oil=rust oil will not protect anything. If LOTS of water in crank case you have to consider rust on crank and main bearings, rust in cyls, which leads to messed up rings which = no compression. Is it water or coolant? Important because if actually water it can be really bad. Rust clogged block=over heat=blown head gasket+warped head. In my experience people seldom tell truth when selling messed up cars.... Sounds to me like new engine or complete rebuild is best option here. That no crank on top of water(?coolant?) in oil sounds like a pig in a poke to me. Hope you paid almost nothing for it. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 The engine cranks just fine, just won't start. No idea if it had water or antifreeze in it. Have to check the dip stick to see how high the level is, when the guy pulled it to show me it was up about 2" on the stick, aprox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well if it's mixed like a milkshake and it's that high up, probably about a quart or so of coolant in the oil. However I've pulled the dipstick on a few where you'd never know there was coolant in the oil by looking at it, then you pull the drain plug and over a gallon of the stuff comes out then, separately, the oil. Bizarre when that happens. So, are you sure the truck just isn't out of gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 I think the timing is off, possibly the chain jumped a tooth or two. Tonight I had my wife crank it and I looked in the oil fill hole and can see the lifters moving so I know the timing chain is intact at least, than I pulled one of the plug wires off and using an old plug checked for spark, which it had, and I can smell gas like it's getting flooded. May do more tomorrow, possibly drain the sludge out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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