teixeira Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) I'm startin to be really interested on this mod, as I will have to change all the bushings, finally will place an idler arm brace, see what else needs to be done and already have a steering stabilizer from factory. I have the opportunity of getting the complete center link of a '91 2WD D21, here's the donor. Will I need the box as mine is a '93 model? or anything else? Need help because I can't do this at home, don't have the skills or space so I'll have my mecanic do this. What you think? Thanks Edited June 7, 2012 by teixeira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor636 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I just want a crew cab D21! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Read back through the posts, I made it quite clear what is required. If you have a 93 steering gear box you will need to check the taper, trucks made before 07/1992 will have the correct size taper, trucks built after 07/1992 will have to swap the pitman arm from a 91-92 truck (with production dates between 07/1990-07/1992). You can find the production date of your truck and also of the donor vehicle on the inside edge of the drivers door on the VIN/door tag sticker. You will also have to have the tie rod adjustment sleeves machined on the right hand threaded side from 16mm to 18mm and then re-tapped. Use the 2wd inner tie rods on the inside and use the 4wd INNER tie rods on the outside (you get rid of your factory OUTER tie rods). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Read back through the posts, I made it quite clear what is required. If you have a 93 steering gear box you will need to check the taper, trucks made before 07/1992 will have the correct size taper, trucks built after 07/1992 will have to swap the pitman arm from a 91-92 truck (with production dates between 07/1990-07/1992). You can find the production date of your truck and also of the donor vehicle on the inside edge of the drivers door on the VIN/door tag sticker. You will also have to have the tie rod adjustment sleeves machined on the right hand threaded side from 16mm to 18mm and then re-tapped. Use the 2wd inner tie rods on the inside and use the 4wd INNER tie rods on the outside (you get rid of your factory OUTER tie rods). I'm startin to be really interested on this mod, as I will have to change all the bushings, finally will place an idler arm brace, see what else needs to be done and already have a steering stabilizer from factory. I have the opportunity of getting the complete center link of a '91 2WD D21, here's the donor. Will I need the box as mine is a '93 model? or anything else? Need help because I can't do this at home, don't have the skills or space so I'll have my mecanic do this. What you think? Thanks Your mechanic can easily do this if you show him how everything should look like when it is done. All you need to do with that 93 box is to just find an earlier 90-92 pitman arm that fits the newer box. The reason being is the 2nd gen steering box that came from late 90 to 92 had a smaller joint taper but the same output shaft as the 93+ box. The reason why the newer 93+ box pitman arm does not work is the joint taper is 2mm or so too big. You can still connect everything but your center link will be crooked and you run into a risk of destroying the joint taper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teixeira Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 You guys are right, sorry. But I'm slow on these things and my technical english is getting there... About the pitman arm has to be from a Pathfinder, correct? or could it be that the D21's fit depending the prodution date? Having to machine parts is tricky.... don't know any machinist on the area, really difficult to find Thanks for the patience with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) wd21 and d21 as long as they are both 4wd models should be the same. and yes you will need to have machine work done to the tie rod adjustment sleeve or you could always try buying an 16.5mm drill bit and a 18mm tap and get some sacrificial tie rod adjustment sleeves and try it yourself. Edited June 10, 2012 by Nefarious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 You can try swapping the Pitman arm from your donor truck. If it fits both ends, it works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teixeira Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Thanks for the explanation, you are awsome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 no problemo man, it really is a far better feeling steering than stock when the front suspension is lifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teixeira Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hope I can do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewt6447 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 you could always try buying an 18mm drill bit and a 18mm tap Just in case no-one picked up on it, you actually need a 16.5mm drill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teixeira Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 16.5mm instead of 18mm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yes, you want the extra meat left in there for tapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banx Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 more cushion for the pushin? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewt6447 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 16.5mm instead of 18mm? Yes, this is the correct size drill for an 18X1.5mm thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Oh right my bad, ill edit my post so no further confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Alright here are some of my thoughts so far... I took my truck down some dirt roads, broken roads, and over speed bumps. So far everything works better than expected. One time I had to avoid an accident and ended up skidding and smashing my right tire into a curb. I thought I just broke everything as it didn't sound or feel very nice but everything was good as usual and the tie rods are still perfect. There you have it. If I could skid into a curb and survive, the system should be pretty good for some fun over off-road obstacles. I am now confident this will work great off-road as well as on the road. Happy wheeling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I have taken my setup out wheeling up mount sumas trails, system is still great! Going up again tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Alright here are some of my thoughts so far... I took my truck down some dirt roads, broken roads, and over speed bumps. So far everything works better than expected. One time I had to avoid an accident and ended up skidding and smashing my right tire into a curb. I thought I just broke everything as it didn't sound or feel very nice but everything was good as usual and the tie rods are still perfect. There you have it. If I could skid into a curb and survive, the system should be pretty good for some fun over off-road obstacles. I am now confident this will work great off-road as well as on the road. Happy wheeling! If that's all it takes my Escort should be on the cover of every 4wd magazine in existence as the best rock crawler to ever see the light of day. Hell my (generically) lowered 1g Eclipse is KOTH material then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 You can have fun with your Escort but chances are it will have a nice big hole in the oil pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 Alright got to test it out off-road and after a few months of driving around with this set up here are my experiences: First, the bad: The so called bump steer, which is actually toe change on bumps, is more present with this 2WD link than it was with the 4WD link. The reason for that is the longer more inner placed tie rods. The ideal tie rod placement would place the inner joint as close as possible to the same line as where the control arms are attached. The 2WD link setup is just about the opposite of that where the 4WD link setup has more ideal inner tie rod placement. I can hear the tires chirp sometimes under tight turning or going over dips and humps at speed. The toe alignment definitely gets sketchy with this 2WD link when driving over big bumps but it's not noticeable at all when going over smaller bumps. The steering stabilizer definitely helps to offset this negative effect. Now, the good: This system is definitely more durable than the 4WD linkage was. The reason for that is the tie rods will no longer try to hammer out the center link joints. The entire problem in the 4WD link only comes from a poor placement of the joints. If the joints for the tie rods were perpendicular with the joints for the pitman and idler arms, the 4WD link would have zero issues. Unfortunately they just happen to be parallel to each other so they don't last and when they get sloppy, the tie rods will bend. The only weak point of the 2WD system are the crooked shaped inner tie rods but so far they have caused no problems of any kind and seem to hold up really well. Then there is much more leverage on the wheels from the longer tie rods and this makes even large tires very easy to turn with the factory box. Also, the steering feels more numb so it's much more enjoyable off the road. There is very little feedback and the steering stabilizer removes the feedback from the bumps entirely. Just point the wheel and go. The added bump steer effect of the long tie rods seems to just go away when going off road because the vehicle is not moving as fast compared to on road and the surface is already uneven. In short, the 2WD link swap is a much better system for off the road but it is not as great on the road as the 4WD link set up was. The next step would be to find out if an Isuzu center link fits. The loops for the tie rod joints are exactly like on the 2WD link but they are placed where the 4WD link would have them. This type of a center link should give the best of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewt6447 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) The so called bump steer, which is actually toe change on bumps, is more present with this 2WD link than it was with the 4WD link. Are you sure about this? On mine there was LESS bump steer, at least at the amount of movement I can generate on the alignment machine at work. How much toe in did you set it at? You need to adjust the toe in to allow for the different bump, the original setting will probably be too much, at least the specs we use down here are.... On another note, the isuzu centerlink will be a bad idea if it fits, it'll shorten the tie rods too much, creating more bumpsteer and more angle on the outer tre's. The isuzu's only have short travel so they get away with it.... Edited September 27, 2012 by andrewt6447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Tungsten your alignment is not right. Sent from my BlackBerry 9670 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) It's a tiny bit off. Pulls a little to the left. The alignment on these trucks never stays straight anyway because of the rubber bushing reinforcement on the lower control arm. It can make the alignment change over time depending on how those bushings flex and compress. This is why those bushings have to be replaced as a maintenance item. I should probably get the truck aligned again after replacing those bushings. I can also try to compensate for the bump steer by increasing positive caster with shimming. Or I can try to jack up the front end more and see what that does to the geometry. People confuse bump steer for feedback. Given that the ride height is stock and that the tie rods are almost parallel to the center link you would have the following effects with tie rod lengths: The longer tie rod ends give less feedback and have more angle tolerance and more leverage but at the same time have more bump steer. The shorter tie rod ends give more feedback but have less bump steer. At the same time they have less angle tolerance and less leverage. Once the suspension is lifted, you would obviously want longer tie rods to compensate for the lift angles. At the factory height it would most likely be better with the Isuzu style link but with a lift you are much better off with the 2WD Hardbody link because the benefits then outweigh the drawbacks. http://www.circletra...ed/viewall.html Edited September 27, 2012 by Tungsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) I have had the 2wd setup on my truck for about 8 months now. I wheel my truck with jeeps and yotas in very technical mountain trails regularly. I have noticed much less bump steer with my setup. City driving was greatly improved, as well as off road. The wheel used to jerk around all over the place with the stock setup, now it is very controlled. Keep in mind my front torsion are maxed out in height with low profile bump stops so my front end is lifted about 3.5 inches or more over stock. Can only speak for my lifted suspension but it definitely has much less bump steer than stock at this height. Edited October 28, 2012 by Nefarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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