Precise1 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 (we have lots of mountains and hills here) Black Mountain is the tallest mountain in the Commonwealth of Kentucky, USA, with a summit elevation of 4,145 feet (1,263 m) [1] above mean sea level and a top to bottom height of over 2,500 feet LOL That's not a mountain, You just have gophers!! That's called a foothill here... Just kidding Bud. Thanks for explaining that to me!! The MAF plug, i just cleaned the connectors, but it all looked good.. though i did see someone once squeeze the connector prongs for a tighter fit..im tempted to try it out, once again my CEL is off.. its like..gentle driving no CEL longer driving, under highway speeds, CEL I think the ECU is as confused as i am. As bipolar as it acts im wondering if there's a bad ground, somewhere.. Yeah, the harmonic balancer really only wobbles at idle.. so im guessing its fine? See if you can inspect the balancer by eye for damage (splits/cracks) and see if you can move it when the engine is off. I seriously doubt that is your issue and almost all older vehicles that I have seen have a wobble. Charlie is giving you good advice. Get the multi-meter, download the FSM (pinned in the Garage section) and start doing this methodically. BTW, for both of you, I have had a failing injector that passed the ohm test when cold and failed when hot so do consider that when checking things. They all have two functioning states, cold and static and hot vibrating... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 So...After countless hours pouring over the FSM and my Chilton's, I have discovered something rather interesting. The MAF and the injectors get their power from the fusible links at the + battery terminal. Turns out, the fusible link for the Injectors is completely burnt/missing on my Pathy. Hmm, makes me wonder how it ran at all. Anywho, I am going to replace the fusible links with a fuse box just like I had to do on my Dodge, and see if that helps. I will keep you all updated. If the Injectors wern't getting any power, than that would easily explain why all the codes are being thrown. The MAF codes, because the Injector duty is way off compared to how much air is coming in, the Injector codes because obviously the injectors are not being powered correctly, and the other two...who knows for now. The important thing is that I may have just jumped a rather large hurdle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Ok, I haven't logged on here in at least a few years. I used to have a really clean '88, but it got totalled by a red-light runner. Long story short, I just picked up a '93 5spd XE for $300 knowing I would have to put some money into it. It sat for 18 months before I got it due to an oil leak, but started with a jump, and drove onto my trailer under its own power. It idles fine, but starts rather slow, and if you give it any throttle, it stumbles and blows black smoke out of the exhaust as it is running pig rich. After pulling the codes, I have the exact same 5 codes you do. 23, 45, 12, 34, and 51. I have already pulled the injectors, re-sealed all of them, and ohm-ed them out. They are all good. If I find anything else, I will post up A.S.A.P. It has to be a similar issue to yours. I have already cleaned the MAF sensor, and done a compression check. I have very low compression on one cylinder, and it is leaking past the intake valve. I believe it to either be stuck, or bent. I am going to Seafoam the crap out of it to see if it will un-stick the valve, but have already ordered a full gasket kit in the event I have to tear the motor down. check your timing belt. When I got my pathy it ran like crap, ruff idle, black smoke. I ran a compression check and had only 30 psi in one cylinder. After changing the belt I have 180 psi in all cylinders. My belt was so loose it was rubbing on the cover. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenrotors Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) So...After countless hours pouring over the FSM and my Chilton's, I have discovered something rather interesting. The MAF and the injectors get their power from the fusible links at the + battery terminal. Turns out, the fusible link for the Injectors is completely burnt/missing on my Pathy. Hmm, makes me wonder how it ran at all. Anywho, I am going to replace the fusible links with a fuse box just like I had to do on my Dodge, and see if that helps. I will keep you all updated. If the Injectors wern't getting any power, than that would easily explain why all the codes are being thrown. The MAF codes, because the Injector duty is way off compared to how much air is coming in, the Injector codes because obviously the injectors are not being powered correctly, and the other two...who knows for now. The important thing is that I may have just jumped a rather large hurdle. Charlie, Where did you find this fusible link coming off the battery terminal? My truck is starting to exhibit the same problems as yours. I also sprayed some carb cleaner towards the base of the intake manifold where it mates with the top of the cylinder head. When doing so the idle changed, leading me to believe I have an intake gasket leak? Also wondering if you have Multi Port injection or Throttle Body Injection? Thanks. Edited May 10, 2011 by frozenrotors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Mine is multi-port. The fusible links are the smaller wires that come off of the positive battery post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 LOL That's not a mountain, You just have gophers!! That's called a foothill here... Just kidding Bud. See if you can inspect the balancer by eye for damage (splits/cracks) and see if you can move it when the engine is off. I seriously doubt that is your issue and almost all older vehicles that I have seen have a wobble. Charlie is giving you good advice. Get the multi-meter, download the FSM (pinned in the Garage section) and start doing this methodically. BTW, for both of you, I have had a failing injector that passed the ohm test when cold and failed when hot so do consider that when checking things. They all have two functioning states, cold and static and hot vibrating... B Lol any slope is bad for a pathy I'll see what i can do, coz im needing one for what i want to do with it, anyway.. So...After countless hours pouring over the FSM and my Chilton's, I have discovered something rather interesting. The MAF and the injectors get their power from the fusible links at the + battery terminal. Turns out, the fusible link for the Injectors is completely burnt/missing on my Pathy. Hmm, makes me wonder how it ran at all. Anywho, I am going to replace the fusible links with a fuse box just like I had to do on my Dodge, and see if that helps. I will keep you all updated. If the Injectors wern't getting any power, than that would easily explain why all the codes are being thrown. The MAF codes, because the Injector duty is way off compared to how much air is coming in, the Injector codes because obviously the injectors are not being powered correctly, and the other two...who knows for now. The important thing is that I may have just jumped a rather large hurdle. Hmm..interesting idea, but..if you find out anything, it'll be greatly appreciated!!! My CEL is off, yet again (I just replaced my horribly flaky and in bad condition exhaust gasket..actually went off shortly after starting it back up.. I'll see how it does under highway driving) Maybe..they're getting JUST ENOUGH power to operate.. and under stress, they arent getting enough voltage? Just my idea.. check your timing belt. When I got my pathy it ran like crap, ruff idle, black smoke. I ran a compression check and had only 30 psi in one cylinder. After changing the belt I have 180 psi in all cylinders. My belt was so loose it was rubbing on the cover. James My timing belt is in great condition..i think it was replaced not too long before i bought it.. But thanks for the idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 More and more on this one, I'm, leaning towards a bad ECU. I rewired the fusible links, pulled intake and ohmed the knock sensor, pulled the front cover and checked the cam timing, all looks to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 More and more on this one, I'm, leaning towards a bad ECU. I rewired the fusible links, pulled intake and ohmed the knock sensor, pulled the front cover and checked the cam timing, all looks to be good. Woo, how relieved i was to see this reply.. Hmm..i wonder if anyone else has any comments to this.. ECU's aren't cheap.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Just another idea, before we decide its the computer, have you verified the voltages running to and from the ECU are correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Negative ghostrider. I still have to do that. No time this week lol. Finals and all. Edited May 12, 2011 by Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Nope, ECU is good. After a whole lot of probing around with my multi-meter, and performing some tests I should have to begin with...I have found these things: 1. MAF has no ground signal. Known problem, Nissan TSB about it says to add a known good ground. 2. Idle switch, wire broken inside harness, no signal from idle switch reaches ECU 3. Knock Sensor OHM's OK but wire has corrosion at least 1/2" up the wire from the sensor. The sensor itself tests good, but not the wiring. 4. Two of the injectors have the same issue as the knock sensor. Corrosion in the wires, leading to a bad reading and not the actual injectors themselves. Looks like that covers all the bases. I can get pictures when I have time, and will also post as to whether or not this actually cured the problems. I just have a bunch of work cut out for me putting it all back together lol. As for your problem Nissan, I would simply add the ground at the MAF and see if it cures the issues. It just might. Edited May 13, 2011 by Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 There is a special harness you can buy at nissan that fixes the maf ground problem. There is a thread around here somewhere, I'll look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Well, after adding a ground wire to the MAF, fixing the corrosion issues, and the broken wire on the idle switch, and also dumping a can of sea foam in the gas tank, and doing the intake treatment with another can, I've got the thing running like a top. ECM now reads 55, no issues. There are many other issues with the truck, but for now, the engine seems to be running great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Where did you add the ground exactly? Or did you find a link here that describes it? Awesome that you got it running well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 Broken wire on idle switch? Corrosion issues? Can you upload some pictures? It would definitely help me out a lot Glad you got it running! I'll be buying me some seafoam next paycheck Thanks for the info!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) Just thought i'd try something.. I tried running a new ground wire to the MAF sensor (the solid black wire right? not the one with the white stripe?) I used the solid black cable and grounded it on the intake.. well.. CEL went off, and stayed off for 20 miles. turned it off. stayed at friends house for 2 or so hours and went back out to go home..not even a mile down the road..CEL is back on..and it didnt run right like..it didnt run as smoothly.. just..thought id give more info! Edited May 15, 2011 by NissanNismoZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 So as soon as i took it down the trails..i lost my CEL. immediately, and didnt get it back for another 250~ miles (the longest its EVER gone).. (took it on the interstate since the first time i had it) sure, i hit around 80mph, easy and it did great. I get home, still no CEL, i have work the next day. I go to leave..and as soon as i pull out, there's my CEL..and it stays on from the trip there and home.. but i did notice something (in relation to my Idle switch code) the pathy DOES idle lower than when the CEL isnt on.. say, when the CEL is on, it idles around..500-550RPM..No CEL and its aronud 750-800 in addition, the pathy is VERY noisy now, im thinking another exhaust leak, and hoping its where i didnt retighten the exhaust after replacing the gasket.. (hoping) I'll pull the codes and retighten the bolts to the exhaust.. Any ideas on the idle switch though? When do you know its bad? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 POSSIBLE FIX!!!! So..after looking around the truck...the first 5 minutes i noticed a wire not in its socket..i unplug the connector and..its a ground.. so..i strip the wire off, throw the connector out, ground it, wrap it in electrical tape, start up truck..INSTANTLY CEL goes off. Take it down the road..it acts a little omre powerful and it doesnt "lag" as much. No CEL yet! Maybe thats the ground i was thinking of.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Great to hear! Just make sure you properly ground it using a ring terminal and a screw instead of relying on some electrical tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 There are two similar connectors around there. One goes to a prong on the distributor, and I think the other goes to the AC compressor (or nowhere if you don't have one). Unfortunately I doubt either has anything to do with the CEL, but we can always hope!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 There are two similar connectors around there. One goes to a prong on the distributor, and I think the other goes to the AC compressor (or nowhere if you don't have one). Unfortunately I doubt either has anything to do with the CEL, but we can always hope!! Look a little between those.. that's where mine was..it was grounded near the fuel line, coming off the main wiring harness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 So i lied. IT DID FIX ALL MY CODES except for the 12 and 34 MAF and KNOCK sensor.. The engine light doesnt stay on long at all. But the fact that it did, is enough to get me thinking..Another possible bad ground that they share? Im thinking i fxed the ground to the injectors and such. Any ideas where to start now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrT Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Any ideas where to start now? Get a multimeter so you know what is going on instead of just randomly guessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NissanNismoZ Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 Get a multimeter so you know what is going on instead of just randomly guessing? That's an idea..but that could be a while since money is short for now.. I guess i'll have to resort to that, since that's all there's really left to do, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 You can find an el'cheapo multimeter here for $20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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