Electric Cooling Fan Conversion

[laxman0324]

So I want to do an electric cooling fan conversion. Can anybody shed more light on this than I have gathered so far, as well as provide some definite specs:

 

1. How much does the stock mechanical fan pull? I am guessing a two fan set up would be best, one coming on at a certain temperature (if you know the best tell me!) and the other either coming on with the A/C or coming on at a higher temperature. I am assuming the total CFM of both the electric fans should be comparable to the stock mechanical fan.

 

2. I know nothing about the temperature sensors used to turn these on. Where do I get them, how do I adjust the temperature, etc. I would assume one that attaches between the radiator input (upper?) and the hose would be best, does such a thing exist or do I have to tap into the radiator or what?

 

3. Any recommendation on fans? Is there any way to have both fans come on low power at a lower temperature and have them both kick to high power at either a higher temperature or the A/C being turned on?

 

4. Anything else I am missing? I think if we can get some definite answers and someone who actually does this it can be a very useful mod (and hopefully somewhat cheap) for R50 owners.

 

Thanks in advance,

Mike

[01silvapathy]

I have been looking into this also. I have talked with alex about it a few times and he said its a pretty easy swap to do. Its esp useful while wheeling. Hope that someone more knowlegeable than me tunes in to answer some questions.

[ahardb0dy]

Some of the aftermarket electric fans come with the thermostat and sensor that gets placed between the fins of your radiator, I had a single electric fan on my 87 Hardbody a long time ago, don't remember which brand it was but it was a beast!!

 

here is a writeup on how to choose the proper fan:

 

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/howtoelectric.html

[shift220]

So I want to do an electric cooling fan conversion. Can anybody shed more light on this than I have gathered so far, as well as provide some definite specs:

 

Are you looking to buy a new efan or find a used one?

 

1. How much does the stock mechanical fan pull? I am guessing a two fan set up would be best, one coming on at a certain temperature (if you know the best tell me!) and the other either coming on with the A/C or coming on at a higher temperature. I am assuming the total CFM of both the electric fans should be comparable to the stock mechanical fan. 3000+ CFM, single or dual. Find the biggest one that will fit the radiator

 

2. I know nothing about the temperature sensors used to turn these on. Where do I get them, how do I adjust the temperature, etc. I would assume one that attaches between the radiator input (upper?) and the hose would be best, does such a thing exist or do I have to tap into the radiator or what? Yes, you can buy the switches. They use a small temperature probe you put between the radiator fins. May also include the wiring/relays you need. They have a knob to adjust the temperature that they kick on at. It's very simple and explained in the directions. You can also wire it to trigger with the A/C.

 

3. Any recommendation on fans? Is there any way to have both fans come on low power at a lower temperature and have them both kick to high power at either a higher temperature or the A/C being turned on? Used: Ford Taurus dual speed fan, one of the most common. New: flex-a-lite is a good brand. Not really necessary to have a dual speed, just one that will pull enough CFM when needed the most.

 

4. Anything else I am missing? I think if we can get some definite answers and someone who actually does this it can be a very useful mod (and hopefully somewhat cheap) for R50 owners.

 

Thanks in advance,

Mike

[shift220]

Cheapest route is the Ford Taurus fan with a thermostat switch. Should be between $50-60 all said and done. A new fan alone will set you back much further.

[laxman0324]

Some of the aftermarket electric fans come with the thermostat and sensor that gets placed between the fins of your radiator, I had a single electric fan on my 87 Hardbody a long time ago, don't remember which brand it was but it was a beast!!

 

here is a writeup on how to choose the proper fan:

 

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/howtoelectric.html

I read a quote from Dean (xplorx4) somewhere saying that between the fin style sensors were not as accurate. I want to do this the best way possible.

 

I would like to do a big fan, maybe the same size as the stock fan if I could set it up to be a dual speed fan and if it could pull the same CFM as the stock fan. Doing that would allow me to modify the existing shroud to fit the electric fan so I can retain the benefits of the shroud.

[laxman0324]

shift220:

 

I want the best quality for the price, so if it means a used OEM fan from another car so be it.

 

And thanks for shedding some light on the thermostat. I am pretty comfortable wiring, so that is not a big concern for me. I just want a reliable sensor and a sturdy set up since I sometimes spend a lot of time in traffic. I will be doing more research on the thermostat in the next couple days...

[PwninOBrien]

I have a couple of extensive write-ups on this on NICO. Here's a short version of the write-up...

 

Go with two fans, a custom shroud setup will be too expensive and won't be much more beneficial than a two-fan setup (versus a single fan setup). The largest fan size for a dual-fan setup on the R50 radiator is two 12" fans. Your best bet is to go with something like two Perma-cool high performance electric fans, as said above, it won't be cheap. After getting two fans and a dual controller you're looking at about $250. The perma-cool fans will cool much better than the stock fan and should and will provide more than adequate cooling. You can use two single controllers or a single dual controller, it really depends on what you want to use. The temperature measurement location really depends on which controller you buy, there are kinds that you stick in the fins and there is the kind that goes into the drain plug or on other radiator orifices. Obviously the kind that uses a probe that you stick in the fins is less efficient but they are much more common. Your best best is to wire one fan to turn on automatically when the A/C is on and then both turn on at a specific temperature. You can purchase variable speed fans and controllers (Flex-a-lite sells some) but you would be looking at shelling out some serious money (around $500) so I would suggest sticking with some standard ON/OFF fans.

 

I haven't done the conversion yet but that is the next mod on the list. If I complete the conversion I will definitely take some detailed pics and some instructions. It it super easy to complete the conversion and should take no more than a single afternoon.

Edited May 10, 2010 by PwninOBrien

[laxman0324]

I have a couple of extensive write-ups on this on NICO. Here's a short version of the write-up...

 

Go with two fans, a custom shroud setup will be too expensive and won't be much more beneficial than a two-fan setup (versus a single fan setup). The largest fan size for a dual-fan setup on the R50 radiator is two 12" fans. Your best bet is to go with something like two Perma-cool high performance electric fans, as said above, it won't be cheap. After getting two fans and a dual controller you're looking at about $250. The perma-cool fans will cool much better than the stock fan and should and will provide more than adequate cooling. You can use two single controllers or a single dual controller, it really depends on what you want to use. The temperature measurement location really depends on which controller you buy, there are kinds that you stick in the fins and there is the kind that goes into the drain plug or on other radiator orifices. Obviously the kind that uses a probe that you stick in the fins is less efficient but they are much more common. Your best best is to wire one fan to turn on automatically when the A/C is on and then both turn on at a specific temperature. You can purchase variable speed fans and controllers (Flex-a-lite sells some) but you would be looking at shelling out some serious money (around $500) so I would suggest sticking with some standard ON/OFF fans.

 

I haven't done the conversion yet but that is the next mod on the list. If I complete the conversion I will definitely take some detailed pics and some instructions. It it super easy to complete the conversion and should take no more than a single afternoon.

Great information! I was just looking on the flex-a-lite site and passing out as i saw the prices...

 

One question, are you wiring the second fan to come on at a certain temperate AND with the A/C on or just have both fans come on at certain temperatures? If I could wire the second fan to come on at either a certain temperature or having the A/C on if I can, I am sure it is possible. The reason I ask is because I am wondering if just having the second fan come on at a higher temperature would be fine? I do a lot of highway driving and if the air can keep the engine cool enough without the fans coming on I would rather them not come on.

 

Honestly, I think $250 is reasonable for a mod like this where the only possible outcome is benefits if it is done right...not to mention with the way gas prices are going it will pay itself off sooner (years instead of decades)

 

Thanks for the info!

Edited May 10, 2010 by laxman0324

[shift220]

I prefer the probe in the fin because it is isolated from the coolant system and easy to maintain. If you set the controller to turn on at 180 for example, that's what it will do. It doesn't matter the accuracy that the probe has because you don't set the controller at 180, you simply set the controller to turn on when your truck is at 180. The probe might actually read only 170. I personally used one for over two years in everywhere from -30 to +35 and it was always dead on.

 

I wouldn't say it's very necessary to wire in the A/C (extra relay and wiring) but it does help with our small A/C systems. Usually the A/C condenser will heat up quick enough to activate the fans at lower speeds and at high speeds you don't need it running. You can always add in it later though.

 

The nice thing with the Taurus fan is that it is already shrouded and is more then enough for the 3.3L with A/C. But I now run the flex-a-lite syclone fan in my Sonoma (turbocharged 4.3 with A/C) due to space restrictions and it has been very good as well. My buddy has the Taurus one in his Blazer now.

[shift220]

The perma-cool fans will cool much better than the stock fan and should and will provide more than adequate cooling.

I have to disagree. An electric fan will never pull as much air as the stock fan. The reason for swapping is usually only to free up otherwise wasted horsepower. You are probably correct in providing adequate cooling though, depending on the model.

[Kingman]

Hell I just zip tied an electric fan and shroud from a Nissan Quest to my radiator and wired in a Hayden electric fan control unit. Worked flawlessly, until the control unit decided to quit working in dead stop traffic. That was cause for some serious worry...

 

That's the only drawback I can see with an electric fan set up. If something in the system fails, you're SCREWED.

[PwninOBrien]

Well you really have to look at it this way, when the stock fan is at 100% duty cycle is when there is very little air flow through the radiator fins (idling/city driving). During these low RPM's scenarios the fan spins at a fairly slow speed, thus pulling very little CFM's. I would not recommend an electric fan conversion if the vehicle is used for hauling since that requires high RPM's at slow speeds. This could also be seen as a negative when off-roading, since normally you use the lower gears (with higher RPM's) at slow speeds. The key is to use a fan with the highest possible CFM's with the most radiator coverage. Now the 12" perma-cool fans are rated on Jegs and Summit at 3,300CFM at 2,400RPM's; two of these on the radiator would pull a total of 6,600CFM at any point. This means that even at idle, you would be pulling more CFM's than the stock fan at the higher duty cycles.

 

Most dual fan controllers have a relay for A/C hookup. Both fans should turn on at the pre-determined temperature, however when you have the A/C on then one fan should always be on. Like shift220 said, most likely if you're running the A/C then both fans will be on from the increase in coolant temperature.

 

One thing that should also be noted is that you need to make sure your electrical system can handle an extra 20+ amps; if you have a lot of electrical accessories running at the same time as the fans then the last thing you want to experience a brown-out is your cooling system.

[PwninOBrien]

I should also point out that one benefit that the mechanical fan has over an electric fan is the shroud. The shroud allows the mechanical fan to spread out it's CFM's evenly over the entire radiator. The ideal setup would be to have two fans with a custom shroud, although it's not very economical. As long as you can cover most of the vertical channels in the radiator then you should be fine. I recommend getting the largest possible fans; I think the last time I checked the R50 has 27 5/8" of finned area, which is just small enough to prevent the use of 14" fans, unless you figure out some way to mount them to the radiator safely.

Edited May 10, 2010 by PwninOBrien

[MY1PATH]

Ok, my specific point of view. Save up the extra dough and go for the Flex-A-Lite Black Magic Exteme 180. It will come in a kit with instuctions, mounting brackets, thermostat contol with built in realy, temp probe... Everything you need and more. set it to your key, set it to your temps add a switch if you want to or make it come on with your A/C. its all there.

 

Now the fan it self, More air and better dirctional draw than your belt fan could ever do at ilde. Hell this thing will bolw you away. I've had mine in for over a year, its been in water, its been in sub zero and rough driving it still lives.

Faster warm ups, more consistant temps. It is, one of the best purchases I think I made for the pathfinder.

[pathlesstaken]

I should also point out that one benefit that the mechanical fan has over an electric fan is the shroud. The shroud allows the mechanical fan to spread out it's CFM's evenly over the entire radiator. The ideal setup would be to have two fans with a custom shroud, although it's not very economical. As long as you can cover most of the vertical channels in the radiator then you should be fine. I recommend getting the largest possible fans; I think the last time I checked the R50 has 27 5/8" of finned area, which is just small enough to prevent the use of 14" fans, unless you figure out some way to mount them to the radiator safely.

what about mounting a larger radiator?

[edicer2]

Hey if onw of you guys do this please post a how to. I would like to do this on my z and my pathfinder!

[Tungsten]

I'm pretty sure that this topic has been beaten to death but I use a mechanical fan and it operates up to 5000 rpms at 100% duty cycle when it needs to and the truck cools down instantly. I don't know about an electrical fan like the black magic 180 and how many extra amperes it will draw from the alternator and if it is even safe to use with the stock alternator.

[Kingman]

Running an electric fan shouldn't be a problem with a stock alternator. Most fans draw 25-30 amps initially and then 12-16 amps continually. Your headlights can draw much more than that. Mine draws 26 amps at start up and 14 consistantly. Gas mileage on the highway can improve as well. When you're cruising there's no draw since the fan isn't, or shouldn't be, on.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Kingman

[MY1PATH]

I might also add the the black magic 180 has and nicely contoured shrould that covers roughy 90% of my radiator

I'm pretty sure that this topic has been beaten to death but I use a mechanical fan and it operates up to 5000 rpms at 100% duty cycle when it needs to and the truck cools down instantly. I don't know about an electrical fan like the black magic 180 and how many extra amperes it will draw from the alternator and if it is even safe to use with the stock alternator.

Amazingly after a short start up draw of 36 amps(all motors draw more when they start) it only draws 18 amps while running.

 

4x4 review did a good aticle on it compareing it to its previous model which was also pretty decent

http://www.4x4review.com/Reviews/ProductReviews/Electrical/FlexALiteBlackMagicXTreme/tabid/366/Default.aspx

Edited May 12, 2010 by MY1PATH

[edicer2]

your link doesnt work

Edited May 11, 2010 by edicer2

[Timmons]

Try again, the link does not work.

 

Any idead what kind of HP gains you can get when running an electric fan?

[MY1PATH]

Try again, the link does not work.

 

Any idead what kind of HP gains you can get when running an electric fan?

 

 

Link fixed.

 

Gains, all depends on conditions/ atmosphere. I wouldn't call it gains either, the power is there its just being stolen by a belt-fan

 

Water crossings- No more bogging from your belt fan hitting water. Belt-fan steals 20+hp? Idono, allot! you can feel it when you hit the water.

Fanclutch seized - fan locked on 100% pulley speed seals 12-15 HP? you'd feel and hear the differance

Heat 95F+ - (85-90% pulley speed max) Belt-fan steals 7-10HP? on a hot day after sittin in the sun @ a 10 min light with the a/c on HI, you might feel it give back power up as you cool black down and you will hear it.

Cold- (15-20% pulley speed) 3-4HP? your not gonna notice a thing

 

Electric FAN- start up alternator load is enough to squeak my 2" pulley* running load only slightly drops engine rpms from idle. goin down the road I don't notice a thing when the fan kicks on.

Oh and hear the differance this fan has a low pitched humm that blends in pretty well. if you pop the hood you may hear the woosh too lol. I have heard many other high pitched whiny fans even inside the vehicle enough to know I'd rather have the one I have because the sound doesn't get on my nerves

 

*2" is extremely small so not enough belt wrap. stock is 3"

[laxman0324]

So here is a link for the black magic fan.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-188

 

For about the same price as 2 perma cool fans and controllers. But its one fan rated to pull 3300 CFM. So what are pros and cons of either? It is a 16 inch fan and it has a good sized shroud around it...

 

edit: the one I posted above is just the fan. This one includes the controllers and temp sensors and all that. $300

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-180/

Edited May 12, 2010 by laxman0324

[tmoore4512]

Just finished a little bit of a write up on this issue with my pathy. Nothing major, but may shed some light.

 

http://www.torymoore.com/pathfinder/efan.html