Ultrafinder Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) I been doing research on this product for a while. I got alot of mixed results from various people. This lSD was primarily designed for the ricer racers/drifters with big horsepower. I called the designer a few months back and asked him if this would work on a R200A his answer was yes. But we would have to order the "extreme" package. I wanted to post the info here. But, Because he never added it to his catalog I didn't take him all that serious about the application on pathfinders. I just went and checked the website and it is now listed. I figured for the amount of time I spend in 4X4 and when I do it's only mud or sugar sand, sooo i believe this would hold up quite well for my needs. Check it out. I look forward to the remarks. http://store.phantomgrip.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=238 Edited December 30, 2009 by Ultrafinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Interesting!! I don't know lockers very well, but it seems that those aren't many parts to convert an open diff to LSD. So there is no difference if this was installed in a front and rear diff?? Seems like this would somewhat address the typical complaint of hard steering with a front locker. It would certainly be useful in mud, sand, up hills, etc. Not too bad of a price either. I'd be willing to try this and run LSD front and rear. B when you choose a Phantom Grip unit, you are choosing, by far, the best limited slip conversion kit on the market. There are others for the R200 or just a generic statement? I wonder what the grab/break free force rating on this is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Good find! Definitely cheaper than the ARB locker. This with a Desert Runner LSD for the H233B in the rear would be a mean combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowser Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'm interested in Knowing more specifics as well. Be a great addition to our Rigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 There are others for the R200 or just a generic statement? I wonder what the grab/break free force rating on this is... Lokka out of Australia also makes a kit but I believe it's an outright mechanical locker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) Idono, It doesn't seem very convincing to me, I'd prefer a clutch time LSD like the rear. If I remember correctly the numbers for existing units were something like this: the rare 300zx units were a 60-80 ftlb break away the upgraded nismo frontier front lsd was a lame 40 ftlb break away calmini an 4x4 parts still wont tell me the breakaway torque of their units I think the wd21 rear lsd is in the 280 ftlb threshold and the r50 & d22 were lower due to differant staking order of the discs. Being the the front has CV joints and steering I would guess staying below the 80-100 ftlb range would help steering and part preservation. If only I could find a 300zx with one or find out more about the calmini & 4x4parts units. Edited December 31, 2009 by MY1PATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrafinder Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Interesting!! I don't know lockers very well, but it seems that those aren't many parts to convert an open diff to LSD. So there is no difference if this was installed in a front and rear diff?? Seems like this would somewhat address the typical complaint of hard steering with a front locker. It would certainly be useful in mud, sand, up hills, etc. Not too bad of a price either. I'd be willing to try this and run LSD front and rear. B There are others for the R200 or just a generic statement? I wonder what the grab/break free force rating on this is... Yes Precise1 there are a few others that make LSD for the r200's. I will get back to you with the rest. I do know that they cost upwards of a $1,000 or more though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrafinder Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Here are a few links the first one is an actuall install on a R200 http://z31.com/mods/drivetrain/phantomgrip/ Next link scroll down too Nissan. The price is ridiculous http://www.autotech.com/quaife/index2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I've been wheeling with 2 Xterras that have front LSDs and both handled really well. One had the Z swap the other was an aftermarket unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 just fyi those High doallar tomei, obx, and other "hellical" type lsd units all act like open difs as soon as one wheel leaves the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.510 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 This is from an LSD FAQ written for Datsun 510 owners: (found here: 510 LSD) What's the deal with Phantom Grip LSD units? Phantom Grip units are advertised as a way to convert an open differential into an LSD unit. They run $250-$300, and have applications for R-160 and R-180 differentials. I have heard of these working ok for awhile, then suddenly not working, leaving you with an open differential. For the price, you might as well buy a genuine LSD. Bluebirds List member Jeff Cook has this to say about them in a Bluebirds posting: "They call it a "Phantom Grip", but I call it something else. If I may be permitted to reprise an email I posted sometime back... From the looks of it, all this unit does is spring-load the side gears against their washers, turning them into half-assed clutches, while adding a wedge ramp to increase the pressure as the side gears try to turn relative to the cross shaft. There are several problems with this approach. First, those side gear washers have no clutch material on them, and the Phantom Grip (Phantom Menace?) unit doesn't appear to come with any that do. (Not that it would do much good, there being no provision in the differential case for a proper stack of frictions and steels.) As this unit operates, you're gonna be wearing away the side gears and differential case. With the spring pressure against them, but without the waffle surface of a clutch disc, there's not much opportunity for lubricant to get into the side gear washers. Since the "clutches" are just metal-on-metal, and running virtually without lubricant, the breakaway characteristics are not going to be very progressive, or predictable, as things heat up. The wedge ramp also induces stresses on the differential case that it was never designed to handle. When (not if) this unit chatters, the wedge ramps are gonna be trying to split the differential case in two. Incredible testimonials aside, this seems to be a very poor substitute for a proper LSD, and way overpriced for what is essentially a couple machined plates and a few springs. I would certainly not consider the Phantom Grip in the same league as PowerTrax or Air Locker." If all the Phantom Grip does is put heaps of outward pressure on the existing side gears I don't think it's going to work well at all in a "real" off road application. We easily put six or eight times the torsional load on a diff than even a high-powered street car does. Also the torsional shock loads are much stronger when we go bouncing up a rocky slope spinning tires and bouncing over ledges. With the wedge ramp increasing the outward pressure against a carrier that wasn't designed to take a big load that direction my guess is it's going to be a grenade in short order. A "real" R200 LSD carrier is one heavy-duty-unit compared to any open carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowser Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I'm interested in Knowing more specifics as well. Be a great addition to our Rigs. I retract this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edicer2 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 you can get the z31 300zx lsd from a later years model 87s through 89 turbo models. There are alot in junk yard or cheap down south so i know you can find them. I have looked at getting one for my 300zx for a long time but there arent many cheap turbo z left up here in the rust belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Thanks Mr510, that explains a lot including what I said earlier. it seems that those aren't many parts to convert an open diff to LSD you can get the z31 300zx lsd from a later years model 87s through 89 turbo models. Weren't those the viscous LSD?? I heard they were pointless for our applicaltion... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Thanks Mr510, that explains a lot including what I said earlier. Weren't those the viscous LSD?? I heard they were pointless for our applicaltion... B only the pearl white special editon, the standard model with LSD for that year was clutch type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edicer2 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 o idk i just knew they were lsd and they work in my z. i just thought i would throw that out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edicer2 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 only the pearl white special editon, the standard model with LSD for that year was clutch type. btw this is called a "shiro" might help u locate one better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.510 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) I think you'll have to look long and hard to find a Z31 R200 LSD in a wrecking yard. Given what they sell for on eBay and Z forums. The early Z guys have been scouring for them since they came out. The R200 bolts right into all Zs, from '69-on. There are a few nutjobs like me that run them in 510s as well. I actually have the heavier duty R200 Nismo 4 pinion LSD in one of my 510s.... only because I run VG power and have been known to do 6k rpm sidestep burnouts on slicks. I can't remember, was the R200 the one that had two different carriers, one for "up to" a certain ratio and another for lower gears, or was that the R180? On the viscous LSDs, they need a "shock" to lock solid. With smooth application of power one tire will spin significantly faster than the other. At low speed you wouldn't get much torque to the wheel with less traction. If you shock them, they lock solid. It doesn't take much shock to lock them up. Also, they get significantly tighter as they heat up. Has anybody tried one off road? I've got an R200 VLSD sitting here on a shelf... Edited January 1, 2010 by Mister510 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I think subaru's use r200's too so thats even more ppl chasing after them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.510 Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I haven't heard of anyone going to an R200 in a Subie, but maybe someone's doing it? An R180 is good for up to 500hp in RWD race applications (except drag racing). In a Subie you'd probably have to be past 800hp and really abusively drag racing to even *think* of hurting one. There are clutch-type R160s and viscous R180s in lots and lots of Subarus. Most 510 guys run a Subie R160 LSD as it's a straight drop-in and it's cheap. The R180 VLSD requires output flanges that do not exist or custom CV shafts for 510/Z use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickj Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 (edited) I have a Lokka for the front of my 2004 Pathy and at AU$ 600.00 delivered, its the BEST money I have spent on my truck. I did install it myself which was a great experience. Where previously, you had to keep up momentum to get up some inclines, now you can just crawl up there. I actually take the hard line now to try to upset it and get a wheel off the ground, but it still keeps on crawling!! I have free Wheel hubs ao on the road I would normally have them in Free mode. On the tracks with the hubs locked and in 4WD 4H or 4L , the steering wheel does tend to try to straighten itself as the wheels are always trying to turn at the same speed. When turning, you hear the clicking noise from the diff which is the diff 'unlocking' to allow the outside wheel to turn faster. I would rate it as awesome! Here's a link to the Australian Lokka website http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/index.php?id=29 And a link to my R50 front Lokka DIY fitting guide http://www.pcoa.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3623&p=33162 Nick Edited January 4, 2010 by Nickj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Has anybody tried one off road? I've got an R200 VLSD sitting here on a shelf... Only ones I've seen people use are the clutch pack type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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