Steering/Suspension rebuild

[bdaa86]

Hello everyone. I'm a first time poster here, and my name is Bill. I've been lurking a while, and learning a ton. Great forum!

 

I need some wisdom from the board. I've got a stock '95 SE, 179K, that's my daily driver. I don't wheel it, and want to keep it stock. I just want keep her in the best shape I can.

 

I'm getting ready to replace the CV Axles and since I'll have things torn apart, it makes sense to replace the worn out parts in the steering & suspension while I'm in there. I've got the funds and I want to get going on this. Question is, what should I replace, and how far do I go? My gut feel based on its age and miles is to replace pretty much all of it: upper/lower ball joints, tie rods, idler arm, sway bar links & bushings, centerlink, upper & lower control arm bushings, etc. .... but maybe I shouldn't or don't need to ... . I've attempted to attach some photo's (re-sized) that I snapped. I hope I got it right. I'd love some input from folks with more experienced eye's than mine. What do you think looks good and what looks bad?

 

Thanks everyone!

 

 

 

 

[Simon]

Don't go throwing money at it. Ball joints and tie rod ends wear out when they wear out. Same with the CL. It really has little to do with age.

 

Your CV's definitely need it. While you probably could get away with just doing boots, I'd still replace the entire shafts. It's a lot easier than tearing apart the axle itself.

 

Jack the front end up and check for play. Wiggle each tire both side to side, and up and down feeling for play. Up/Down play usually means ball joints. Check for which one is allowing movement.

 

Side to side play could be tie rod ends, or CL. You can watch the CL while you wiggle the tire back and forth. If it rotates while you do this, it's shot. Otherwise, if there is play, check the tie rod ends.

 

If everything feels tight, leave it be.

 

The one thing I will suggest is that you have a very close look at the tension rod bushings to see if they're sitting a little off. If so, you probably have considerable wear in the tension rod, or mounting hole.

[94extreme]

side to side looseness can also be attributed to bad IA.

[Terrano1992]

While you probably could get away with just doing boots, I'd still replace the entire shafts. It's a lot easier than tearing apart the axle itself.

Inner CV can be relatively easy disassembled and removed from a shaft. Then grease outer CV and replace outer CV boot, put inner CV boot on a shaft, assemble inner CV and slide a boot on it. It takes appoximately one hour of work if you know how to do it.

So, I will replace entire shaft assy only if both CV (not CV boots) are in junk state...

[bdaa86]

Don't go throwing money at it. Ball joints and tie rod ends wear out when they wear out. Same with the CL. It really has little to do with age.

 

Your CV's definitely need it. While you probably could get away with just doing boots, I'd still replace the entire shafts. It's a lot easier than tearing apart the axle itself.

 

Jack the front end up and check for play. Wiggle each tire both side to side, and up and down feeling for play. Up/Down play usually means ball joints. Check for which one is allowing movement.

 

Side to side play could be tie rod ends, or CL. You can watch the CL while you wiggle the tire back and forth. If it rotates while you do this, it's shot. Otherwise, if there is play, check the tie rod ends.

 

If everything feels tight, leave it be.

 

The one thing I will suggest is that you have a very close look at the tension rod bushings to see if they're sitting a little off. If so, you probably have considerable wear in the tension rod, or mounting hole.

 

Hey Simon, thanks for that lightspeed response ....

 

Agreed, the CV's are getting replaced, that's a certainty.

 

I'll get it jacked up and start checking for play.

 

However, I want to be sure I'm visualizing what you're saying about how to do that. I know for checking play in the wheel bearings you'd grab opposite sides of the tire and push in with one hand, while pulling out with the other, repeatedly, looking for play. Is that what you mean when you say "Wiggle each tire both side to side, and up and down". I know you can also push in and pull out on the tire. Things are hard to describe in text, and I'm more a visual person. Just wanna get it right.

 

On the compression (tension) rods, I actually had one break on me a number of years back, and so both have been replaced, so I think I'm in good shape there.

 

Thanks!

[bdaa86]

side to side looseness can also be attributed to bad IA.

 

I assume IA = Idler Arm? Is that right?

[94extreme]

correct. if you ever need a reference for some of these shorts we use here, there is a thread that explains them all.. it's pinned in one of the section too.

[bdaa86]

correct. if you ever need a reference for some of these shorts we use here, there is a thread that explains them all.. it's pinned in one of the section too.

 

Good to know. I'll go check it out. Thanks!

[Simon]

Hey Simon, thanks for that lightspeed response ....

 

Agreed, the CV's are getting replaced, that's a certainty.

 

I'll get it jacked up and start checking for play.

 

However, I want to be sure I'm visualizing what you're saying about how to do that. I know for checking play in the wheel bearings you'd grab opposite sides of the tire and push in with one hand, while pulling out with the other, repeatedly, looking for play. Is that what you mean when you say "Wiggle each tire both side to side, and up and down". I know you can also push in and pull out on the tire. Things are hard to describe in text, and I'm more a visual person. Just wanna get it right.

 

On the compression (tension) rods, I actually had one break on me a number of years back, and so both have been replaced, so I think I'm in good shape there.

 

Thanks!

Yep...the same thing to check for wheel bearing play, only, on the sides of the tire, instead of top and bottom. If there's play, you may need a helper to move the tire, while you check for the area with play.

[adamzan]

Don't go throwing money at it. Ball joints and tie rod ends wear out when they wear out. Same with the CL. It really has little to do with age.

Yeah my 93's front end is perfect and it has 215k miles on it. Though my 95 had 115k miles when i got it and the front end was nearly toast. All depends on how it was driven I guess.

[bdaa86]

Yep...the same thing to check for wheel bearing play, only, on the sides of the tire, instead of top and bottom. If there's play, you may need a helper to move the tire, while you check for the area with play.

 

Excellent. Just what I needed. I'll have at it and see what I find out.

 

One thought that just occurred to me. Would I be correct in assuming I'd want to jack up both sides and put it on jack stands so the both sides are free to move while checking for play. Seems like having one wheel on the ground would prevent that, but I'm not sure.

[adamzan]

I did it with one side up, and when my ball joint and tie rods were shot you could definitely tell

[GrimGreg]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

Go through and check everything as you disassemble it for the CVs, and if the part is worn, replace it, if not, clean it up and reuse it.

[Terrano1992]

Would I be correct in assuming I'd want to jack up both sides and put it on jack stands so the both sides are free to move while checking for play. Seems like having one wheel on the ground would prevent that, but I'm not sure.

"One side up" will be enough to check ball joints and wheel bearings play. Also perform preliminary steering play check in this position. Then repeat with other side.

For a final steering play check - both front wheels are on ground. Call helper. He/she will turn steering wheel left and right, while you inspect all steering components (TRE's, CL, idler and pitman arms).

[bdaa86]

Ok guys, thanks very much for the quick replies. I'll proceed accordingly.

[bdaa86]

Another question that just occurred to me. What about the wheel bearings? Would it be wise to re-pack them with fresh grease, assuming they're in serviceable shape and have no play? I know they've not been re-packed since I've owned it.

 

If yes, what grease do folks recommend?

[94extreme]

if you're going to do the CV you will have to pop those rascals anyway.. so you can check them then and decide how to proceed dependent on their shape.

[bdaa86]

if you're going to do the CV you will have to pop those rascals anyway.. so you can check them then and decide how to proceed dependent on their shape.

 

Sorry, that was a dumb question .... ... obviously I'll be taking them off.

 

So, what should I should look for? Anything in particular?

[adamzan]

Any scores or reddish haze on the bearings or pitting and they should be replaced.

[magregor]

Also, if you have any steering components apart, I would suggest sticking in an Idler Arm brace ( I fabricated my own) but Calmini has them for 30 bucks. Just another added comfort

 

Mine

 

Calmini

Edited September 22, 2009 by magregor

[GrimGreg]

I forget what grease I even use for bearings (had a few ), but it is just Valveline bearing grease in a blue can. I always repack any bearing that comes loose, no matter how recent the last packing was.

[bdaa86]

Jack the front end up and check for play. Wiggle each tire both side to side, and up and down feeling for play. Up/Down play usually means ball joints. Check for which one is allowing movement.

 

Side to side play could be tie rod ends, or CL. You can watch the CL while you wiggle the tire back and forth. If it rotates while you do this, it's shot. Otherwise, if there is play, check the tie rod ends.

 

Ok, so I jacked my Pathy up tonight to check things out . I checked both sides and took my time really checking things good.

 

Both sides have play side to side. I'd say somewhere around 1/4 - 1/2". Its noticeable. I had someone wiggle it side to side while I checked underneath. The tie rods don't rotate or move other than to push/pull on the CL. However, the CL clearly moves. Simon, you mentioned to watch to see if the CL rotates, and that is what I'd say its doing. Probably 1/4 to 3/8" of rotation. Not a lot, but it clearly moves. Kind of pivoting from the IA joint and to a lesser amount from Pitman Arm joint. The IA moves up and down just a hair.

 

Top to bottom it seems pretty solid. So I'd say the ball joints must be ok. There's just the very tiniest amount of play. Really nothing to speak of. I can hear kind a click, but again, it seems pretty solid.

 

A question. I can grab either tie rod at the center of the adjusting sleeve and rotate it with my hand. But neither rotates when I wiggle the tire. I'm guessing that is what it suppose to do. Would that be correct?

 

So, based on what I saw, I'm thinking I should replace the following:

 

- new CL

- new IA (maybe add the Calmini IA brace that magregor mentioned - thanks!)

- possibly new tie rods (as the one that attaches to the pittman arm looks like the boot is coming off).

 

Here's a couple pictures with notes added to help show what I'm trying to describe.

 

Tie rod with boot coming loose:

 

Place where CL is pivoting:

 

Thoughts??

[Kingman]

I drove my old '87 with much of the same characteristics, if not more (likely) for 20,000 miles and didn't have any problems. Just a thought as to how much money you want to throw into it for what real gain?

[Simon]

Yep...tie rods rotate. No issue there.

 

Sounds like the CL needs to be replaced, and you can save yourself a few bucks by just replacing the bushings/seals in the IA instead of buying a whole new part. Short of bending the shaft, that's all there is to wear out in them anyways.

[bdaa86]

Thanks everyone for sharing your wisdom and experience with me. I've got a handle on the direction I'm going to head. Time to go order some parts.