Barack Obama is the 44th President of the USA

[Simon]

In terms of foreign aid, the fact that foreign aid comes in the form of discounted fighter jets to first world countries doesn't make the idea of aid wrong. It's because your government receives some sort of kickback from these countries in exchange for that "aid" that they're doing that in the first place. The assistance should go to those who need it, as B said, in the form of food and medical supplies.

 

On the topic of Saddam, and Al-Queda, it's funny that Scott (K9) pointed out earlier that one of the motivating factors for invading Iraq in the first place was because they assisted Al-Queda by providing weapons. To extrapolate the situation, the US sold weapons and planes (among other things) to Iraq, which means, indirectly, to Al-Queda. So fondo, you're sort of right, using that logic.

[Simon]

My issue is this:

 

We give SO MUCH MONEY in aid supplies and cash...

 

Yet only one country really adled up to help us when we needed it... the UK. Our LONGEST STANDING ALLIES PERIOD.

 

And even then, their general populace aren't happy with us.

Um.....you forgot another country there Kitt.

[Simon]

What is funny, the USA is one of the only countries that CAN survive without trade. Yes we might need to reopen some closed factories to do so, but is that a bad thing? Most of the steel we make is exported, most of our crops we grow are exported, etc, etc. Most of what we import are consumer goods that are American raw materials converted, assembled, and packaged and sent back as Barbie dolls, Hot Wheels and TVs. Sony and Zenith both used to have large TV factories in So. Cal., think we really need to import them? Just re-employ people and build them there again.

 

Then we get the. "what about oil"...the one thing we import that we really don't need to, we have enough in places under our control (Alaska...) that we don't need any from the damn Arabs.

With your current economic systems, there's no way. Quite simply, those jobs have been moved out of the country because it's too expensive to produce those things in the US. It's idealistic to think that simply opening up a bunch of factories would make the US self sufficient. There'd have to be some MAJOR changes in the way the entire country is run, and how people live their lives for that to work.

 

The oil argument is weak as well. How long do you think the US's oil reserves would last at the going rate of consumption? The US currently produces less than half the oil it consumes. Canada, by comparison, produces 1.5x the oil it consumes. Oil drives everything as you know. How long will those factories (which, of course, would increase US oil dependancy) run without imported oil?

[Kittamaru]

Um.....you forgot another country there Kitt.

 

 

*tilts* Who? Sorry, i won't deny that my knowledge of world history is limited to what I've read on my own... our schools round here portray the US as World Heros... meh...

[Kittamaru]

With your current economic systems, there's no way. Quite simply, those jobs have been moved out of the country because it's too expensive to produce those things in the US. It's idealistic to think that simply opening up a bunch of factories would make the US self sufficient. There'd have to be some MAJOR changes in the way the entire country is run, and how people live their lives for that to work.

 

The oil argument is weak as well. How long do you think the US's oil reserves would last at the going rate of consumption? The US currently produces less than half the oil it consumes. Canada, by comparison, produces 1.5x the oil it consumes. Oil drives everything as you know. How long will those factories (which, of course, would increase US oil dependancy) run without imported oil?

 

The US could increase our production over three fold if we would explore shale oil and coal oil...

[adamzan]

our schools round here portray the US as World Heros... meh...

I'm sorry but...

 

This frustrates me greatly...

[Fukinitupagain]

With your current economic systems, there's no way. Quite simply, those jobs have been moved out of the country because it's too expensive to produce those things in the US. It's idealistic to think that simply opening up a bunch of factories would make the US self sufficient. There'd have to be some MAJOR changes in the way the entire country is run, and how people live their lives for that to work.

I don't know so much about Canada, but the US compainies that sent everything overseas did so to make huge proffits, not because they couldn't afford to keep producing in the US. They still can, but they think "instead of producing it here & paying a US citizen $6/hr they send it overseas & pay $.09/hr don't get charged import taxes & increase the price, so they are making what?... yes huge proffits.

 

The oil argument is weak as well. How long do you think the US's oil reserves would last at the going rate of consumption? The US currently produces less than half the oil it consumes. Canada, by comparison, produces 1.5x the oil it consumes. Oil drives everything as you know. How long will those factories (which, of course, would increase US oil dependancy) run without imported oil?

As far as oil production goes we could be a world leader, but there are too many people in power who get kick-backs from forgien oil companies, yes including Canada (who is a major supplier of our oil), so they try & scare the public in thinking that drilling for oil in this country is 'bad' or 'scary.' You might know a lot about Canadian policies but ypu spout off the same sh!t that CNN, MSN NBC & the rest try & pass off as facts with nothing to back.

 

Facts are:

1. US compainies (by in large) did not outsource because they couldn't produce in this country but rather because they wanted to make mad huge proffits by using loop-holes on import tax laws.

2. If we pulled our heads are out of our as$es could be a world supplier of oil.

[Fukinitupagain]

Fixed that for you.

 

Fair enough and I understand that view, But 29 billion (foreign aid amount from 2007) divided by 100 million Americans (the $ makers) still only equals $290 a year. While I don't agree that people should HAVE TO pay that, my argument is that I won't miss the $.80 a day that keeps many people from starving or dying nastily from disease. Is a bag of cheeto's really worth it? I've seen really poor people before and would feel really pathetic if I didn't do my token part to help ease it. Unfortunately, some of it exists here in the US and we either ignore it or just hand out 50x that much to people without expecting them to get their own arses in gear and start dealing with things like most of us do.

 

My anger comes from 'selling' F16's to our 'allies' for much less than the cost of production, supporting foreign leaders (Sadam H was one, do your homework), buying $400 toilet seats and other such stupidity.

 

B

Thanks for the fix.

 

I'm like you; I don't agree in not only selling our military weapons & what not for less, but allies or not I don't agree in handing over our military technology & weapons to other counties. You want the technology, you can 'rent us out' (theres another way to 'make money' like someone earlier wanted to know).

 

As far as poor people go, I grew up in in the 2nd poorest state in the US during the late 80's & early 90's (WV) so I understand that there are many, many people that are poor because they don't care to have anything better & those that want more or want better do for themselves. I got the hell out cause there is no opportunity & no future, & I know you are thinking 'but if you don't have anything it's hard to just leave.' No it's easier, if you aint got nothin' you aint leave'in. I'm a custodian at an elementary school paying for everything on my own, cause the goverment says that I don't need help, and pay in cash every semester for my bachelors degree.

 

If you want to help others go a head. I don't want to.

[Precise1]

Fair enough. With your explanation, it's a different story. I had taken your comment above to say that you'd rather the tax break than to help the needy. I see your point now, and yeah, I'd be pissed as well. No offense intended.

No worries, I just felt it needed to be explained so you understand the pressures some of us here in the US of A are under. The ability to break into a comfortable lifestyle and the pressure that holds the glass ceiling in place...

 

With your current economic systems, there's no way. Quite simply, those jobs have been moved out of the country because it's too expensive to produce those things in the US. It's idealistic to think that simply opening up a bunch of factories would make the US self sufficient. There'd have to be some MAJOR changes in the way the entire country is run, and how people live their lives for that to work.

 

The oil argument is weak as well. How long do you think the US's oil reserves would last at the going rate of consumption? The US currently produces less than half the oil it consumes. Canada, by comparison, produces 1.5x the oil it consumes. Oil drives everything as you know. How long will those factories (which, of course, would increase US oil dependancy) run without imported oil?

 

True in the first part, but the 'factory' jobs are truly low level, low pay jobs and could employ many that are welfare leeches anyway. They may as well do some work. I can say this, having started machining at the base level, knowing what it entails, working hard and making crappy wages. Not all industry can be brought back, but more than people think. I work in the industrial sector; I believe I have a better pulse on things than most

 

The US uses far too much oil to be self sufficient, but with utilizing alternative energy (wind, solar, tidal, etc) and not driving a dually 1 ton to work at an office, we could be close enough where China would use the same amount. The problem is that people/programs are far too short sighted to make it happen. Not like I'm the genius with all the answers, but some are so obvious I can't help but face palm.

 

B

[zonianbrat]

The US could increase our production over three fold if we would explore shale oil and coal oil...

 

I agree with this. I work on oil rigs as a mud logger or the fancy name is Geological Consultant. Meaning I take samples of the rocks that we drill through and analayze them for potential Oil or natural gas. I am currently working on a rig drilling for Natural gas and it is actually kind of exciting because we are looking for natural gas out of Shale which is considered a "resource" rock meaning natural gas is made inside this tight rock but over thousands of years it seeps out into loose sands and sandstones, limestones, dolomitic limestones, etc. which are called resevoir rocks. Since these sands are loose they store millions to billions of cubic feet of natural gas. For many years when you would drill into these tight shales you would get a brief "kick" of gas simply from the 6-12 inch hole you drilled because the rock is not porous. Sands however are very porous because of being loose so Natural gas migrates to the borehole from all around. The Technology for oil is close to the same. It has only been in the last couple of years that we have figured out how to produce from the resource Shales themselves. Many companies still do not have the know-how or technology to produce from these shales. I happen to be working for a company that does know how to do it. Sorry to rant and bore you guys with one of the duties of my job. I simply mean to explain that the potential is there. And if we can broaden off-shore drilling and continue drilling in the US I beleive we could be pretty much self dependent for oil for atleast a couple hundred years(depending ofcourse on our own demand). Currently at our current pace we have enough for like 100 years. But the technology is there to increase this by alot. If anybody is actually interested in this new technology look up the Barnett Shale's or Baxter Shales. It's pretty interesting.

Edited November 6, 2008 by zonianbrat

[unccpathfinder]

The US uses far too much oil to be self sufficient, but with utilizing alternative energy (wind, solar, tidal, etc) and not driving a dually 1 ton to work at an office, we could be close enough where China would use the same amount. The problem is that people/programs are far too short sighted to make it happen. Not like I'm the genius with all the answers, but some are so obvious I can't help but face palm.

 

Your right but only certain areas can take advantage of energy like wind/solar. They've talked time and time again about wind at the OBX of NC and to be quite honest I believe with the salt and what not the maintainence would out weigh the benefit of the renewable energy...now like where i live in CA the wind farms are growing and they're should be a new solar farm soon which I understand completely but somehwere like WA doesnt make too much sense b/c of the amount of sun they get...i guess what i'm saying is not all places can use renewable resources

 

I"m with you on the big truck for office deal...I hate cars and have been driving my camry for a while now...i hate it every day and wish it was my truck but the cost of fuel didnt justify it. CA has the highest gas prices i've seen and to be honest I was shocked to see how many large trucks were out here as asphalt queens and they have no care for the price of gas...it blows my mind...

[k9sar]

In terms of foreign aid, the fact that foreign aid comes in the form of discounted fighter jets to first world countries doesn't make the idea of aid wrong. It's because your government receives some sort of kickback from these countries in exchange for that "aid" that they're doing that in the first place. The assistance should go to those who need it, as B said, in the form of food and medical supplies.

 

On the topic of Saddam, and Al-Queda, it's funny that Scott (K9) pointed out earlier that one of the motivating factors for invading Iraq in the first place was because they assisted Al-Queda by providing weapons. To extrapolate the situation, the US sold weapons and planes (among other things) to Iraq, which means, indirectly, to Al-Queda. So fondo, you're sort of right, using that logic.

 

careful with the wording Simon. There's a big difference between conventional weapons (planes etc) and those that were feared to be available to OBL (dirty bombs, chems, nukes). The terrorist organizations had no use for planes etc since they don't have air strips or pilots. Their business is pretty much handheld in nature

[k9sar]

The US could increase our production over three fold if we would explore shale oil and coal oil...

 

I believe these to be cost prohibitive. The yield is far too small to counter the cost of extraction. Unless some sort of breakthrough is the refining process is made, these aren't gonna happen. Plus, then you'd get all the hippies in an uproar about increased stripmining for coal

[zonianbrat]

I believe these to be cost prohibitive. The yield is far too small to counter the cost of extraction. Unless some sort of breakthrough is the refining process is made, these aren't gonna happen. Plus, then you'd get all the hippies in an uproar about increased stripmining for coal

 

 

Actually if you read my post above # 110. The yeild is actually pretty good it is just that nobody has wanted to invest the millions it costs to try. But somebody finally did years ago.The cost of extraction is not much different then extracting from resevoir rock IE. Sandstone.

Edited November 6, 2008 by zonianbrat

[Simon]

I don't know so much about Canada, but the US compainies that sent everything overseas did so to make huge proffits, not because they couldn't afford to keep producing in the US. They still can, but they think "instead of producing it here & paying a US citizen $6/hr they send it overseas & pay $.09/hr don't get charged import taxes & increase the price, so they are making what?... yes huge proffits.

As far as oil production goes we could be a world leader, but there are too many people in power who get kick-backs from forgien oil companies, yes including Canada (who is a major supplier of our oil), so they try & scare the public in thinking that drilling for oil in this country is 'bad' or 'scary.' You might know a lot about Canadian policies but ypu spout off the same sh!t that CNN, MSN NBC & the rest try & pass off as facts with nothing to back.

 

Facts are:

1. US compainies (by in large) did not outsource because they couldn't produce in this country but rather because they wanted to make mad huge proffits by using loop-holes on import tax laws.

2. If we pulled our heads are out of our as$es could be a world supplier of oil.

I'm not saying they COULDN'T produce things there. You're taking things out of context. I said "with your current economic systems" they couldn't. There's a difference. I agree that it's due to the bigwigs wanting larger profits. Isn't that what freedom is about?

 

In order for these companies to make things locally, the bigwigs would have to take a cut in their profits, and they'd have to pay their workers far more than they pay foreign workers. This would bring salaries much closer to being in line, and would create a much larger "middle class". This would also be a sign of the ""communism" that has been mentioned in reference to Obama and his idea of spreading the money around.

 

Again, with the oil, should the US become self-sufficient, I agree it could up it's production, but it would also up it's consumption, do you not agree? Again, how long do you think those reserves would last?

[Simon]

No worries, I just felt it needed to be explained so you understand the pressures some of us here in the US of A are under. The ability to break into a comfortable lifestyle and the pressure that holds the glass ceiling in place...

 

Fair. And believe me, things are about as rosey up here in the Great White North.

[Simon]

careful with the wording Simon. There's a big difference between conventional weapons (planes etc) and those that were feared to be available to OBL (dirty bombs, chems, nukes). The terrorist organizations had no use for planes etc since they don't have air strips or pilots. Their business is pretty much handheld in nature

I never said the Iraqies bought WMD or chemical weapons from the US, nor was I making that type of accusation. But if the US has helped out Iraq, in any way, and the Iraqies have helped out Al-Queda, is that not transitive? They may not be the SAME weapons moving from party to party, but I believe that to be moot.

Edited November 6, 2008 by Simon

[02silverpathy]

First and foremost I drive a caR50, this means I like being comfortable and not jarred to death by bumps...lol !

I will also partake in being a Canuck if things here get much worse. I took 5 complete years of French, with the Ideas of moving to Canadia, I hope some of it still remains in my memory!

That being said...

 

actually, it did but not entirely or directly. There were several issues why the decision was made to go into iraq.

---->K9...the problem here is "secrets" every wise business (cause that is what the US is)shares its information with its employees (which is what we merely are) to build a sense of self and reponsibility...F*** the private "they shouldn't know this" type of information. When things get put under the table, memories forget what was above the table, then we start speculating...bullsh**. "My" "Government" shouldn't hide anything from me unless they themselves want a blackeye when it "leaks" back out---ie Civilwar Part Deux.

 

IF that's the case (and it's a big if) that Iraq did have WMD's, I can see the idea. But there's a double standard. Why should the US be the only ones that have them? Does Iraq not have the right to defend themselves? It's not like the US will listen to the UN if (when?) the time comes to use them, at least, not if someone like Bush (and/or his administration) is involved.

-->YES! Double standards is what this country was built on...remember we were nothing but looters, prostitues, rapists, theives, and the other likes when our beloved England dropped us here...we want a dbl standard...lol.

I heard that Iraq shipped out tons of...oh there I go again trying to figure out what my Big-Daddy Governemnt put -or didn't- under the table again!

I think that we all need to straighten up and realize that "OUR" (Human-kind) world probably is not up to the Nuke test at this time!

 

I've heard about that, and would fight it. I hope it never comes to fruition. My guess is that given the fall of the US dollar against other currencies is a partial incentive for this.

--->Please do, as I would quickly share monetary units with Simon, Pezzy, Redfinder, and 80+ % of the other Canucks in the world, the "AMERO" would also include the --peso--this means that we are both going to lose our a**es! There are already several coins that were test minted--for "fun" I guess.

 

-->K9 see a problem here? This should have stayed under the table, but it didn't so that means it is not being thought about---but WILL happen...when info reaches us poor dumb common-folk that means they "wanted" us to know about it--'cause they are doing it wether we blow up every official building (including the 5 stories under it) or not! Pisser huh?

 

Who are the "THEY" people anyway? Oh the super rich, cleanest theives, slave drive'n, asshats that ran this country from the first railroad until now that use the oval office (was that designed after Henry Fords Logo?) as thier own personal Monopoly game piece...our Gubberment is really the laughing stock of the world, other than we are so qoute rich that people less fortunate play nice to cut off slices--but hell we all need something right?

 

Well, first of all you need to know how money is made. The Federal Reserve is who prints our money. Whats funny is that the Fed is not actually a Government controlled body. The Fed is made up of private banks who base our economy on elasticity (S/P), check out the federal reserve act and how it was created. You will not be happy.

For every one dollar that is actually backed by the gold standard, 1000 bills are printed.

.....just by doing a little research. Careful, you may not like what you find.

--> Right! But, go look at an Ecuadorian quarter--Last I looked they minted TONS of these..oh that's roughly about how many it takes to make an American Dollar

...in fact McDonalds gave them away in Happy Meals back in the 80's--any idea why? They were waaay less expensive than a HotWheels car

....did you also know that the $ dollar sign was originally a U with an S over it? Not an S with some silly strike marks?

Education is only part of the equation, doing something about it is the other..more meaty part. Stop printing money for a ficiticious war and then we can stop pretending we have all this intelligence??!!?!

 

With your current economic systems, there's no way. Quite simply, those jobs have been moved out of the country because it's too expensive to produce those things in the US. It's idealistic to think that simply opening up a bunch of factories would make the US self sufficient. There'd have to be some MAJOR changes in the way the entire country is run, and how people live their lives for that to work.

 

The oil argument is weak as well. How long do you think the US's oil reserves would last at the going rate of consumption? The US currently produces less than half the oil it consumes. Canada, by comparison, produces 1.5x the oil it consumes. Oil drives everything as you know. How long will those factories (which, of course, would increase US oil dependancy) run without imported oil?

Maaan whatever no one is self sufficient, if they were then we would even bother talking anymore--wasn't Brazil nearly 100% energy self-efficient and look at the ruins now..geez.

 

This frustrates me greatly...

Yeah I feel your pain, I grew up with all these Red White Blue ideas, then I got out of school and went WTF? everybody is wrong about this but me?? Lol, now I am 30 and pissed about the whole mess! If you need to complain about the Honor that I do nto hold for my country, first ask how could any one American come to feel this way? If you spend time answering yourself then you will see it without actually asking me.

[k9sar]

Actually if you read my post above # 110. The yeild is actually pretty good it is just that nobody has wanted to invest the millions it costs to try. But somebody finally did years ago.The cost of extraction is not much different then extracting from resevoir rock IE. Sandstone.

I wonder what size/cost of a facility would be needed and what would be the throughput or raw materials. With transa nd dsiposal costs of the residual solid matter, would that be too costly? dunno. Lots of factors to look at but I know there be lots and lots of oil out there that isn't in nice little easy-to-pump liquid pockets.

[k9sar]

I never said the Iraqies bought WMD or chemical weapons from the US, nor was I making that type of accusation. But if the US has helped out Iraq, in any way, and the Iraqies have helped out Al-Queda, is that not transitive? They may not be the SAME weapons moving from party to party, but I believe that to be moot.

 

I disagree. But that's what opinions are all about, right?

[k9sar]

---->K9...the problem here is "secrets" every wise business (cause that is what the US is)shares its information with its employees (which is what we merely are) to build a sense of self and reponsibility...F*** the private "they shouldn't know this" type of information. When things get put under the table, memories forget what was above the table, then we start speculating...bullsh**. "My" "Government" shouldn't hide anything from me unless they themselves want a blackeye when it "leaks" back out---ie Civilwar Part Deux.

 

the problem is not with our own citizens knowing the information. The problem is that everybody else and their grandmother are watching. The single largest source of intelligence information gathered by other countries on the US is our own news media. If you want to throw the 'business' aspect to it... let's recall al little thing called company proprietary information. Certainly, if you are working on a proposal to win a contract, you do not want your competitors to know your information. Certainly you can realize that other countries could be considered competitors. The problem is that the frucking reporters jump and scream about the public's "right to know" but they overlook the simple fact that there are foreign nationals all over this country who's sole job is to collect information and return it to their home government. If there were an employee that revieled proprietary (aka secret) information to a competitor, they would be fired. A US citizen who provides classified information to foreign governments will be arrested and tossed in the federal pokey. If our secret information was provided to our own public and only our own public (which would be impossible), lots and lots of them would end up behind bars and the ability to keep our country/company safe would be essentially eliminated.

 

and... your government would be glad to share it's proprietary information with you as long as you are granted a security clearance and sign a non-disclosure agreement which basically says that if you release any classified information that you have received, your ass is in prison for the rest of your life. If you feel the need to take on that responsibility, join the military.

Edited November 6, 2008 by k9sar

[unccpathfinder]

Honestly, I believe if "the secret" information like what goes on at any military base with top secret or "black" programs going on was known by the general public of the USA and was guaranteed that noone would speak; I think most people would have higher stress and be more freaked out about things in general.

 

in my career i've designed things for planes that I have no idea what they're going to use it for or what plane its going to go on and I would love to know but maybe its best that I didnt...I'm one of those that believes that the general public is living way behind the power curve as far as technology goes and that's probably a good thing...

 

I mean if the govt came out and said ohh yea btw we've got stratigic missles all over the US that contain some device that was 10 folds worse than a nuke or bio and didnt make earth uninhabitable and had a very predictable halflife that made the dispersion precise to effect only those who should be affected...I think most people (within the US and the outer world) would @!*% their pants and who knows that could be very true

 

Hell I think people would go ape @!*% if they were like yes we found an alien and showed images...i guess all i'm getting at is sometimes people don't need to know everything

 

your government would be glad to share it's proprietary information with you as long as you are granted a security clearance and sign a non-disclosure agreement which basically says that if you release any classified information that you have received, your ass is in prison for the rest of your life. If you feel the need to take on that responsibility, join the military.

 

that or be hanged or put in front of a firing squad (i think treason is covered by martial penalties but could be wrong)...

[k9sar]

just to put things in perspective... stealth technology started back in the early 60's. The F117 had a full size prototype in the early 70's and was flying in 1977. It wasn't until the early 80's that anyone ever knew about it and by then, the technology was 20 years old.

Had this information not been secret, the technology would have been useless by the time it flew.

 

Guess what's in the works today that you won't see for another 20 years.

Edited November 6, 2008 by k9sar

[02silverpathy]

the problem is not with our own citizens knowing the information. The problem is that everybody else and their grandmother are watching. The single largest source of intelligence information gathered by other countries on the US is our own news media.

The US Media is always accurate & I did hear that there are no spy's in the whitehouse working today 11/6/2008, they get Thursdays off.

If you want to throw the 'business' aspect to it... let's recall al little thing called company proprietary information. Certainly, if you are working on a proposal to win a contract, you do not want your competitors to know your information.

I am in the company and I do not know of any such contracts, which department must I be in? I am not even in the mailroom this is where the BS problems start.

Apparently other companies know more about our contracts than little me as they already feel the need for nukes.

Certainly you can realize that other countries could be considered competitors. The problem is that the frucking reporters jump and scream about the public's "right to know" but they overlook the simple fact that there are foreign nationals all over this country who's sole job is to collect information and return it to their home government. If there were an employee that revieled proprietary (aka secret) information to a competitor, they would be fired. A US citizen who provides classified information to foreign governments will be arrested and tossed in the federal pokey.

Secret-ism if you will is the root of all distrust and deceit--hence why so many people are soo glad that Shrub is leaving office...there are still folks that speculate he will not leave office and will continue to hold office with his happy little oil, financial, and territory cronies---forceably----HOW DO AMERICANS GET TO FEELING THIS WAY? Secrets.

If our secret information was provided to our own public and only our own public (which would be impossible)

....and the ability to keep our country/company safe would be essentially eliminated.

Now we come to 9/11...how did these planes veer wildly off course again without anyone being able to put a stop to it?? Did you ever meet anyone that lost a family member from either the "airplane" that hit the pentagon or that "landed" in the PA field??

 

Sorry man I do not feel safe especially when my neighbor across the alley less than 50yds behind my house is shot dead in the head at nearly 7 am daylight, dies behind my garage...which then I walk out of my house get in my car and ask to drive under the police tape only minutes after and am never asked any questions....are you kidding me--the killer, he's on the loose as far as they know and well, have now asked federal marshalls to help find more info...dude it may has well have been me so at least this guy that died knew his gov't didn/t do it and I would have turned myself in!

and... your government would be glad to share it's proprietary information with you as long as you are granted

And its a privledge to pay taxes in HOPE of being granted such rights

a security clearance and sign a non-disclosure agreement which basically says that if you release any classified information that you have received, your ass is in prison for the rest of your life. If you feel the need to take on that responsibility, join the military.

They wouldn't take me---when I was 18 I was 6% body fat bench pressed 235lbs box squated 475lbs, and dead lifted 440lbs..why? I have a crooked spine--but I am still good enough to pay taxes so chest out chin up spit spot cheeri-o and so forth!

 

Lol, these are jokes from the largest propaganda machine the world has ever seen---we have done so much in our extensive 232yr history that we have been the top nation and caused the most problems, are in most everybody's business, and now---our business sucks! Well, it was quite a quick lap around the track.

 

Then long live the black market..as I would hate to have to give you all the $$ taxes that you ask for as my protector only to sit and Hope that you are really doing something, as the easiest thing to say is trust me because I won't tell you anyhow.

 

Yes I am quite sure that Bill Gates has the very same problem but yet his employees still know what they are worth as they are compensated as such.

 

The difference here is I am asked to work work work, produce produce produce and any reward will be confiscated and never talked about again or I get the pleasure of dying or being imprisoned. (ie gain financial abillity to protect your own family = tax your a**--selling secrets = you die---not paying taxes = imprisonment).

 

What exactly is the "venture" that we were after in Iraq? Oh that's right trust you as you can't tell us and wouldn't anyway, juust keep paying your taxes and everything will be fine...really!

 

Sorry man this is not a swing at you, just merely an easy time poking at the giant swiss chees holes in our government...if I tried to run my business this way well I could hope that I would get 9+ billion like GM Chrysler shared, or get my bad debts bought like Fanny and company--dude there is no excuse for acting stupid when you're not-and we're not we just look really stupid

[k9sar]

again... everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally, it's people who bash the US government and it's 'secrecy' policies that really bug me since I have worked with multiple government agencies, at many levels of security and have seen the benefit of how thigs are done and the damage caused when information falls into the wrong hands. As far as 911... yes. I have lost friends in NYC and DC and the plane that hit in western PA was only a few miles from a relatives house. Believe what you want but keep the conspiracy theory bullcrap back in the threads where they were discussed prior.