87pathmaker Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Ok... So About 2 years ago, I was on a pretty serious trail, and my t-bar popped out (passanger side) of socket.. I didn't know what it was at the time, but figured it must have hit part of the obsticle that I was trying to overcome and just pulled it out of socket. Well, today, pulled into the local gas station, and there is a large dip that compressed my right front suspension, and the t-bar popped "slipped" enough to drop the suspension about 4". I'm a little confused... this is a pretty dangerous situation, I regularly drive 50-60 mph on the way home at night and a t-bar popping out on a corner would put me in the water or on the beach (neither of which would probably be right side up...) Could this have something to do with my lift? TM 4" Or a loose front end component? I've never heard of this happening before... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 were the Tbars ever replaced? I think I remember a topic where this was happening and someone used HB Tbars? someone should be able to correct me if I'm wrong but I'd maybe just try and verify the length of the bars and check that none of the splines are stripped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Also check to see that the clips holding the adjusters are present, and not worn out, allowing the adjuster to slip backwards, and off the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittamaru Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Check the c-clips before anything else - if those are there, then pull the bars out and clean them, check for damaged/stripped splines. Also check it's length. If they're okay, examine the anchor. If that's also okay... then I can't help you mate It's something beyond what my limited knowledge is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Whoa... this is the first I've ever heard of it. There is something uniquely errant in your rig. I also immediately thought of a too-short T-Bar. Measure those puppies first. And make sure all clips are there. And there sockets are clean and all splines are undamaged. Check the compression rod and it's bushing while you're there. And all the rest of the suspension parts. ANYTHING loose or damaged that will let the lower control arm move forward would be a problem. It should be constrained to move only up and down, never fore and aft. The TM kit is designed to maintain the same geometry, so the mere presence should not be a factor. BUT, if any of the brackets are bent or somehow mis-installed or deflecting, that would be a problem. Make sure all of the drop brackets are damage free, sticking straight down and tight. Take pictures for us as well. I suspect something is very wrong, and there is a possibility it could be pretty serious. I would be making resolution of this a pretty darned high priority if it were my rig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonianbrat Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I agree something is wrong for sure. Just a guess but it sounds like then you hit the t-bar on an obstacle it could have slightly bent it maybe. Making it technically shorter than it is supposed to be. This in turn could put alot more stress on the splines causing them to strip. If they didnt strip on the impact. I dont have torsion bars so I could be totally wrong. Let us know what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 And to think, some people can't get theirs' to come out on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathmaker Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 I'll get it home and pull it off. After the first incident the T-Bar was not bent... I've put about 4-5K miles on the rig since it popped out last. I'm pretty confused?? I'll check the adjuster clips.. that may be the issue. It may be time for an upgrade here, as these are the factory t-bars (no real sag though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonianbrat Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Sounds like a perfect excuse to upgrade to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packie88 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 i agree. pickles has a set of sway aways and im pretty sure he is extremely happy wiht them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Of course, some of us would say a stiffer suspension may be a downgrade rather than an upgrade.... I know it has been common/popular to have a stiff, uncomfortable ride on 4x4 trucks. But I for one sure don't understand why. I much prefer a compliant, flexible suspension that follows the terrain and maintains as much traction as possible. The only time I would stiffen is if I am bottoming it out on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I agree with you Martin. My stockers, cranked up, do just fine. Now, if I start bottoming out once I have a winch installed, I may look into stiffer T-bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittamaru Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 It's possible to raise the truck without things getting stiffer though, isn't it? I mean, longer springs and shocks with cranked up t-bars would do the same thing wouldn't it? And if you add in longer uhm... braces I guess they are? Wouldn't it give the same travel with good flex still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathmaker Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 It's possible to raise the truck without things getting stiffer though, isn't it? I mean, longer springs and shocks with cranked up t-bars would do the same thing wouldn't it? And if you add in longer uhm... braces I guess they are? Wouldn't it give the same travel with good flex still? The ride will feel a little stiffer (mine did) when you crank the stock t-bars. I'm assuming (no physics expert) that the "torsion" affect is progressive.. it has to work harder to maintain the more aggressive load put on it by raising the vehicle, and as doing such will be pre-loaded to a higher "torsion" rate so will feel stiffer... especially since raising the vehicle means that there will be a little more motion for the torsion bar it would have to twist further to max out the suspension flex further increasing the spring rate throughout the range of motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittamaru Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 That is true, but by changing out the stock springs, shocks, and (now I remember the name) struts, the t-bars wouldn't have to be cranked as far to get the same effect. Also, non-stock t-bars are designed with the lift idea in mind (least, I hope they are) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathmaker Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 That is true, but by changing out the stock springs, shocks, and (now I remember the name) struts, the t-bars wouldn't have to be cranked as far to get the same effect. Also, non-stock t-bars are designed with the lift idea in mind (least, I hope they are) Exactly... Basically, I don't think you'd notice a huge difference between a proper torsion bar for the height of the vehicle and a stock t-bar cranked. I'd just assume that the stock t bar would obviously start to wear and sag at a faster rate than normal due to the increased stress.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Oh, they take their time. I've had my stockers cranked up for years now and they still hold it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Physics lesson: Torsion bars have a linear spring rate. Cranking them will not make them any stiffer or cause them to sag any sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathmaker Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 Physics lesson: Torsion bars have a linear spring rate. Cranking them will not make them any stiffer or cause them to sag any sooner. So by preloading the bar by cranking it, you're not going to feel any difference in ride quality? Is it just the change in the front suspesion geometry that I'm feeling? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathmaker Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) Ok... so I finally had time to play with the pathy today. I jacked it up, the c-clip is still on the rear anchor/passanger side torsion bar, and i'm not sure how, but the anchor re-indexed itself where it had been adjusted to orginally. Now, I can't figure out how to lodge the anchor loose, because there is reverse tension on the torsion bar... wtf? Anybody have any ideas? Edited March 14, 2008 by 87pathmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathmaker Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) Ok... so... managed to get the torsion bar out, just let the jack down to about half the level it was at to put some compression on the control arms, which moved the rear anchor back to a postion where I could move it. I found the problem, half of the front anchor was fully stripped out. WTF.. I'm not really sure how the hell this happened. The torsion bar threads look fine. I'm pretty confused... I'll go ahead and order a new front anchor. OR I might just say f-9k it and look for d44. Will any year wd21 anchor work? I'm only assuming they would because of the interchangeabililty of torsion bars. Is there another part name for the front anchor? When I do a parts search, I can only find torsion bar anchor, no front or rear descriptions. Edited March 14, 2008 by 87pathmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_17Fire Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Speaking of Torsion bars ... i broke mine the otherday .. I went to Parts.com for mine.. http://www.parts.com/oemcatalog/index.cfm?...playCatalogid=0 Anyone have other links to were I can get better them stock one's .. I am working on this Pathy for Basic off roading .. I also use the Truck for in my Rural are for Fire Rescue .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) So by preloading the bar by cranking it, you're not going to feel any difference in ride quality? Is it just the change in the front suspesion geometry that I'm feeling? Just curious. Yes, that is correct. I (and Mr. Sir Isaac Newton) guarantee it is not due to the spring rate of the torsion bar suddenly changing There may be a very slight "difference" in feel due to pivots moving in a less worn area - the extra friction will reduce ease of movement. One exception: If your shock absorbers have position sensitive damping, you will experience different damping characteristics at the different ride height - which WILL affect ride quality. Not aware of too many that do this, but it is physically possible to design a shock do so. The only things that will change the spring rate are to: 1) change the length of torsion bar (longer = softer, shorter = stiffer) 2) change the diameter of torsion bar (smaller = softer, fatter = stiffer) 3) change the material or temper of torsion bar And while you're interested in learning, I'll also point out that a coil spring is, in effect, a torsion bar - just one that has been twisted around into a helix. But the same laws of physics apply - the larger in diameter OR shorter in length the "wire" is, the higher the spring rate. So if you have a given coil spring and cut off 2 coils, you will make the spring stiffer. Kinda handy! After you've absorbed that, I'll be glad explain how progressive rate springs work! I love edumacating those that are more interested in physics and facts than fads and opinions! Edited March 14, 2008 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Speaking of Torsion bars ... i broke mine the otherday .. I went to Parts.com for mine..http://www.parts.com/oemcatalog/index.cfm?...playCatalogid=0 Anyone have other links to were I can get better them stock one's .. I am working on this Pathy for Basic off roading .. I also use the Truck for in my Rural are for Fire Rescue .. What do you mean by "better"? What do you want different? There are some aftermarket bars available, but all of the ones I am aware of are stiffer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_17Fire Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) Just thought like most parts some aftermarket ones are better made.. But reading the previous post I have a better Ideal.... The other day I poped up on a sidewalk like I always do ( I am a Fireman so I am alway on Sidewalks for parking) Next thing I hear a pop .. the right front is droped by a few inch's .. My lovely shop says the torsion bar went . He cant find the part for a 1990 but I could, go figure. I know nothing when it comes to non-leaf spring suspension .. LOL Here is the Bad Side http://www.wolfsquad.com/Pic/broke.JPG Good Side http://www.wolfsquad.com/Pic/Good.JPG I will drive this Pathy till she fals apart Edited March 14, 2008 by Doug_17Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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