vidro Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Well here we go. Time for my boy to start driving and I have opted to really screw him up by starting him in a standard tranny. I should say he took his DriversEd in an auto but now that’s over and the car that he will most likely be driving is my 95 standard 5 speeds Pathy. My problem is my driving techniques are by feel and gut. I’m not very good at articulating the finer points of driving a standard, I tend to assume things. I guessing I’m asking for advice/help in what not to forget to tell him. I also don’t want him to pick up my bad habits. My shifting and pedal techniques are things I have picked up from years of driving manual transmission; they may not be the best methods for a beginner. My fear with this whole thing is a new driver being distracted by how to operate his vehicle. This may not be a valid fear, I’m not sure yet. Any advice on, What RPM s to shift? Is it good to hold down the clutch at an intersection when you have the red light, or do you put it in neutral and stand on the brake? Any other bits of advice that I can pass on would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavelow Leaks Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 RPM's..depends on the car, but usually around 2k for best mileage I hold down the clutch..unless the lights taking forever. oh..and make sure he learns this... http://www.blancomedia.com/shell/heel_toe.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 In the owners manual for my 95, it shows to shift around 3k RPMs. Teach your son to keep the truck stable on hills when stopped using the clutch, and also, I've found, using ONLY the clutch to try to start off in 1st, in a parking lot for a while, was greatly beneficial to me in learning the feel of it. Just get your son to SLOWLY let out the clutch a few times with the truck in first gear, without touching the gas, so he can feel when the clutch engages. That's the biggest issue, as shifting between gears when moving is the easy part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I learned to drive on a stick and took my test on a stick. It's best to learn when your young. I tried teaching my girl how to drive a stick what a nightmare that was. The only advice I could give is start with a parking lot before going on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzy Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Def get out on a small hill where there is no one around to get him comfortable with getting into first when youre going to roll backwards... I know that was the thing that scared me the most when I started... the idea of rolling back into the guy behind me. Also, a trick my dad taught me when he took me out, was if I was ever in that position, and knew I was going to roll back, was to use the e-brake to help. It's nice to know you can do that just incase!! When I learned, my truck didnt have a tach, so I had to learn by feel & sound when to change gears... you may want to get him used to that, incase he finds himself in a car w/o a tach. oh yeah, and go find someone else's car he can learn on, so you save your clutch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I taught my daughter to drive on a 86 720 w/manual trans. We practiced a lot with stop and go first. Once she could do smooth take offs, we moved to shifting (1st to 2nd to 1st) on level ground. I suggest you take it one step at a time and not too much in a single session; give it time to sink in and retest at the start of a new session. One of the worse things you can do to a clutch is use it to hold on a hill; that's a job for the brakes. With few exceptions, the pedal should be up or down, half-pedal should only be used to get from one extreme to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 One of the worse things you can do to a clutch is use it to hold on a hill; that's a job for the brakes. With few exceptions, the pedal should be up or down, half-pedal should only be used to get from one extreme to the other. I agree, however, it's about learning. So they can feel it, so that he can take off from a start, on a hill, without rolling back. Under normal every day driving conditions, I agree with you completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 When it came time to teach my wife, I knew my way of seeing and explaining things were not going to work very well for her... I am the ultra-logical techno geek engineer, and she is the soft side artsy one. So I enlisted the aid of a mutual friend! She could relate perfectly with my wife... I couldn't understand what she meant, but my wife could! 2 hours later, she was set and lovin' the stick shift! Rule 1: The teacher must be able to relate to the student for learning to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Rule 1: The teacher must be able to relate to the student for learning to occur. true dat martin. another clue is to not give too many instructions at once. YOU drive first, let him watch your feet, and listen to th motor. that is how i learned.. i used to watch my mom drive her 79 yota corolla estate (the "pathy" type corolla).... when i was 14.. i stole the car while she was in hawaii..... and drove it perfectly. just from WATCHING *ahem* back on topic. drive first, let him observe your movements. his brain will associate your movements with the sound of the engine. (and hopefully reproduce these when he's behind the wheel). remind him NOT to watch his feet. i see that so much with newbs.. skeery! shifting is around 2800-3000rpm in a 5 speed. i usually shift 1st-2nd at around 2500. she seems smoother that way, especially when cold. if he over revs it, he will soon learn, he will get whiplash and the pathy will let him know. As above, a parking lot is a good place to learn. and a slight incline is even better. have him facing uphill, handbrake ON, and let him slowly release the clutch to find biting point. then clutch down again. that way you do not risk him rolling backwards, nor do you risk the complete frying of your clutch. (that's how my mom learned to drive the yota..hahaha) getting to know where the biting point is half the battle. if you are short tempered, or do not explain things clearly, then find another instructor. do not overload him with information, basics first. he will be as nervous as you are! if things get a bit "exciting" or tense.. STOP. take a break. tell jokes. whatever releases the anxiety. good luck and he'll do fine!!!! -bounce- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 hehe... Find a BIG open field.... Lock it into 4 low... and let him dump the cluch a few times it will give him the feel for it. If no fields are available dirt logging road... Relateability is very important, and not having any to worry about hitting other items is required. Reverse is more forgiving than 1st, after dumping the clutch a few times in the field he should be able to stop and go back wards np... Logging roads work wonderfully for stop and go with not alot of pressure(he wants to be ) No matter what or how he does laugh with him, not at him... have some verbal flash backs... Man I remember the first time I did that type of stuff.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD50 Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 My dad taught me to drive standard, it was not the best learning experience. I got the basic stop/starts down but they were still jerky. It was only until I got my pathfinder and drove by myself that i was able to hone my skills. Now I can't stand driving an auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I started driving a standard (Crew cab long box F350's) when I was 8 or 9, so I don't really have anything to pass on teaching wise (I can't remember)... But like said above, I would just have him let out the clutch in first, without touching the gas, to figure out when the clutch engages. Then have him try to shift into second. It might stall, but then you can tell him about needing to be at the proper RPM to shift successfuly. I dono. The hill thing is a good idea too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 hehe... Find a BIG open field.... Lock it into 4 low... and let him dump the cluch a few times it will give him the feel for it. If no fields are available dirt logging road... Relateability is very important, and not having any to worry about hitting other items is required. Reverse is more forgiving than 1st, after dumping the clutch a few times in the field he should be able to stop and go back wards np... Logging roads work wonderfully for stop and go with not alot of pressure(he wants to be ) No matter what or how he does laugh with him, not at him... have some verbal flash backs... Man I remember the first time I did that type of stuff.... i think this is actually the best advice here. in 4lo the clutch is the most forgiving. i don't agree on no gas techniques as that's what leads to the jerking because many, many manual vehicles actually need a little bit of gas. i can get my truck rolling without but it's way easier when i give it a little bit of gas. after the addendum i'll also would go with hill clutching eventually. start on flat though. if you're gonna teach him shifting by sound you might as well teach him to shift w/o the clutch. the sounds will sink in faster.. 2000rpm is best for mpgs; 3000rpm is better for performance.. the first is more forgiving and the gears go in pretty easy w/o clutch. the acceleration isn't there but no jerking either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Shifting with no clutch Freaked the living $hit out of both of the daughters.... but a needed skill... rolling down a gentle sloping dirt road is best for practicing that imo... Then you can turn around and do the no roll backwards with the clutch :idea: I was not allowed to drive it forward until I could back it the rest of the way up the driveway without rolling forward, no ebrake was allowed either.... About 6 months after all of this the clutch blew when my dad was driving.... I had to replace it by myself.... 1982 Ford Escort... A week later the throw out bearing went on the F250 I also had to replace that clutch alone.... The 3rd and 4th clutch I replaced were on my 85 RX7..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pickles Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I've had the "pleasure" of teaching my wife as well as my ex, as well as a few friends and stuff. Ditto on the back roads or parking lots, working up to hills, and especially a little humor and relating to the student, etc. We've all been there. I'd also agree with spreading it out over many shorter trips, even if its just driving you around town to the grocery store or whatever. Just try not to be in a hurry to get somewhere. Nerves can get frayed if you try and teach it all in a couple power-learning sessions. Start off with the basics in a parking lot, move up to cruising around any back or country roads, dealing with quiet intersections and stuff, then move into town. I know its not good for the clutch, but I've found it helpful to spend a few min just getting a feel of things by sitting with the clutch right at the point of engagement, sliding slightly in and out, feathering in some gas, etc. It might take a little life off, but its invaluable for getting a feeling for the grab, easing the throttle in for smooth take offs, etc. I wouldn't stress a certain rpm to shift really, make it more of a "usually this is what you would do" kind of thing. Around town is fine, but don't stress shifting at say 2500rpm or something too much. What happens when they try to tackle a short freeway on-ramp, or the first time passing on a 2 lane road? That's obviously not a safe scenario for a new driver to lug the engine. Low revs are fine around town, but for safety's sake, there are times where nothing can replace a heavy and confident right foot winding it out. The little 3.0 isn't a torque monster, most of the power is on the top end, don't be afraid of them winding it up here and there within reason. I generally shift at 3k, but won't wince at 5k+ if needed, and it took some reassurances when teaching my wife to drive it, that its ok every once in a while, it won't explode or something. Oh, and I'd leave downshifting while braking off the learning plate until the fundamentals of shifting are sound. Even though it can seem pretty straight forward, it does worlds of confusion when all the new driver wants to do is simply stop. Save that for later and just let them use the brakes alone till they get a handle on the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 find a flat neighborhood that he can drive a round in...1st things 1st find the friction point (ie sit on a flat surface so it doesnt roll put it in 1st and slowly let off the clutch until it starts to roll/bog down) this is where the cltuch ingages so that gives an idea of where u need more gas...i learned on a miata that was friggin easy...the bronco II i got took me a lil while to master and the pathy was a breeze... when i 1st learned from a stop i would rev to about 2k and when i let the clutch out i gave it more gas then i progressivly got to matching the gas and clutch... pointers i would give... 1. dont yell at him (i broke an ex gf of wanting to drive cuze she was nervous and almost rolled back on a BMW that got right on our ass on a small hill) 2. if it starts to stall either slower on the clutch release or more gas...or cltuch to the floor and go again... 3. 1st and 2nd are going to be the hardest to master but the others wont be a big deal 4. once hes comfortable on flat ground try some small hills and progress from there 5. lay off the gas when clutch is hit... 6. i'd say shift about 3-4k if u want to give him advanced training the synros will match up about 3000...pull out of gear let the rpms drop to about 2100 for a split secont while u put it in the next gear and u never have to hit the clutch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 my cousin was selling his old metro, so my dad told me to take it down the road. told me to push in the clutch to shift gears like in the video games, and very little gas is to be used when shifting. cousin gave me the keys and i just had at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eglaisi_91pathy Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Whats all this 3k shifting I hear about? I redline every shift I do... j/k, only on steep uphills Since I learned stick in my Pathy, heres some advice: If he has his license already and doesnt need an instructor with him, let him go on his own and he'll figure it out. As long as he knows the basics like clutch out gas in etc. he will have it in no time. Both my parents tried to teach me, and i sucked massively. When they went to work, I took it out by myself just up and down the street for like 20min and I was getting alot better. BTW I didnt have my full license so it was kinda illegal so dont encourage that if he doesnt have his full license.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 BTW I didnt have my full license so it was kinda illegal so dont encourage that if he doesnt have his full license.... rolleyes.gif ohh yea...my buddies dad taught us (me and him) i think i might have had a permit but my buddy didnt have anything and we just drove around the neighborhood only...which was great b/c 90% of it was flat and then there was 1 road that had some good hills with like 3 stop signs on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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