solid snake Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I recently upgraded my radiator e-fan to a dual 50 amp fan. Well since the stock alty only makes 70 amps, I see that 20 amps to power everything else is not that much. Plus, I left the ignition on for may be 5 minutes and the fans darined the battery. So, I want to upgrade to a 90 amp alty, but was wondering if 40 amps would be enough. I was planning on getting a 95 maxima alty from the bone yard since I remember 88 saying that it was a complete bolt on. I would go with the quest alty, but I don't have the tools required to fab up a new brace to mount it to the pathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I am actually going to be trying something a little different with the Quest alty that I picked up for $15 bucks (tested good) last weekend, and if it works as I hope, it will be bolt in *crosses fingers I am aiming for this weekend and if I am able to get it done I'll let you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solid snake Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 Cool, keep me posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 The e-fan only pulls 50 amps at startup, running full speed it should only pull 20 or less. I tested mine and the amperage drops quite a bit after initial startup. Further, the battery will supply more than enough amperage to run the fans, regardless of the alternator's output. The alternator is there to recharge the battery, not supply all the power for everything by itself. A 90 amp 240SX or Maxie alternator is a bolt-in, AFAIK, yeah. Get on it! Side note: I believe a small (1/2 farad or less) car stereo capacitor hooked to the fused input from the battery would really help on fan startup if you didn't want to swap alternators... MWS, any thoughts on that idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 The e-fan only pulls 50 amps at startup, running full speed it should only pull 20 or less. I tested mine and the amperage drops quite a bit after initial startup. Further, the battery will supply more than enough amperage to run the fans, regardless of the alternator's output. The alternator is there to recharge the battery, not supply all the power for everything by itself. A 90 amp 240SX or Maxie alternator is a bolt-in, AFAIK, yeah. Get on it! Side note: I believe a small (1/2 farad or less) car stereo capacitor hooked to the fused input from the battery would really help on fan startup if you didn't want to swap alternators... MWS, any thoughts on that idea? Sorry to disagree with you twice in one day 88pathoffroad! but the alternator is there to power the vehicle and to charge the battery. The battery is for starting and for a tad bit of voltage spike regulation. The battery(ies) will also compensate for an amperage overload situation, but only temporarily...if all the alternator power is going to accessories, and there is still additional amperage needed, the battery will slowly drain, causing the alternator to overwork. As the total vehicle voltage drops, the alternator will have to put out more and more amps to keep the voltage regulated. This will overhead the alternator and reduce its life considerably. I went the expensive route and bought Wrangler NW Power Products' 130 amp high idle output alternator (90 amps at idle). Works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Ok I installed the Quest Alternator today. But first let me say, anyone considering this mod read 88's How-To Swapping the stock VG30 engined Pathfinder 60 amp alternator with a Quest/Villager 110 amp alternator. He gives all the info needed to do it there However I decided to go about it a little differently, because I wanted to keep my bracket in it's original condition so it could be kept in the truck as an emergency back up. I also did not want to modify the alternator unless I had too. While I was at the wrecking yard pulling an alternator an idea struck me about possibly using the Quest/Villager alternator support bracket. I hoped that it would end up just being a bolt on process, but there was one thing that I was fairly sure would prevent it from working that way... I was pretty sure that the bracket would interfere with the belt.. and it did :sniff: But I was able to get this installed with a little modification to the Quest bracket, a new bolt from the parts store and no mods to the alternator at all. I cut down the bracket reshaped the end and drilled a new hole. Then while mounting the bracket I stood it off of the engine block and alternator mounting hole using quite a few washers as spacers (temporary) and a new bolt at the block mounting location. Quest / Villager Bracket This pic shows the section that I cut off - sorry no images of the finished (cut and shaped) bracket - I will have it off again later, I'll snap some then if anyone wants them And here are some images of it installed You have to use two longer bolts for the bracket, the one that goes into the alternator is simple, just keel the bolts from the mini van when you pull the alternator. You will probably have to pick the other one up from the parts store, this is for mounting the bracket to the engine block. I got a 1.25 thread pitch, 8mm x 90mm, which was a little longer than needed. The bolt cost around $1.50 Solid Snake, although I used an angle grinder with a cut off and grinding disks, the modification to the bracket would be done with a hacksaw and a metal file... Oh and a drill for putting the new hole in. Although it is very sturdy and I think it's fine I would still like opinions on this in case I am missing something... anyone believe that in the long term that it could have problems? And please note that the washers/spacers are only temporary, I plan on making some solid one piece spacers. I will also likely have the one that mounts at the block welded to the bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 The junkyard I go to just has the alt already pulled and hanging on a rack, I couldn't pull brackets off anything cause the engine generally goes into the storage warehouse until someone buys it. Sorry to disagree with you twice in one day 88pathoffroad! but the alternator is there to power the vehicle and to charge the battery. The battery is for starting and for a tad bit of voltage spike regulation. This is true! I just meant that the alt isn't meant to do everything on it's own, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solid snake Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 Cool Redpath88, seems pretty straight foward. I can't get an alty right now cause I'm low on cash. I'm trying to sell a 16" and 10" e-fans for $60.00 both. But hopefully I can go the bone yard next week. I'll be in the look out for some quest mini vans. BTW, did you have to buy a new belt for the alternator with your set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Yeah the same one specified by Aaron in his write up. (10mm longer than stock, part # 17380) Remember to not limit your search to Quest vans, Villagers are the same thing And after talking to Dan (Vengeful) the newer 125AMP units on 2000-2003 Quest/Villagers "should" also work. Let me know it you need any more info, I'll try and take the bracket off this weekend and take some pics of it as I modified it. I really need to clean up the Alty better anyway. I'll also measure the spacer sizes again, I had them written down but can't seem to find the paper now. And again it can all be done with a hacksaw, metal file and drill. It's just a bit more work that way. One other thing, you will need to space the pulley out too (see Aarons How To) I was able to get a spacer meant for alternators from a local parts store for free, they had a box of Alty parts and just gave it to me.. so it can't hurt to ask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Side note: I believe a small (1/2 farad or less) car stereo capacitor hooked to the fused input from the battery would really help on fan startup if you didn't want to swap alternators... MWS, any thoughts on that idea? Great idea, but not really enough to make much of a difference. 1 Farad is one amp for one second per volt. So if the fan is pulling 50 amps at start up, it will discharge the cap in less than 1/10 of a second. I suspect the high surge current demand for a radiator fan will be for at least one or two seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 How 'bout a Batcap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solid snake Posted September 15, 2006 Author Share Posted September 15, 2006 I've decided to go with the 90 amp alty. I'm getting some extra cash next week, so Hopefully I can pick up the alty then too. It's running about $50.00 at the boneyard, this sucks. I'm gonna shop around, but I think that the price will stay consistant every where I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Ok a bit late but as promised.... Here are some pics of the bracket as I cut and reshaped it This shows the brackets and rough cut spacers that I made for it And here is the Alt mounted with the spacers (just for pics/before I finished cleaning up the spacers and bracket) *I need a lathe and surface grinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I'm really late with this, but shouldn't the fans start up after the engine is running (except for a hot start)? And wouldn't it be better to have the fans shut off if the engine isn't running (to save the drain on the battery)? I'm planning on eventually doing the e-fan (fan clutch is going anyways) and just curious if there is any logic in doing otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solid snake Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 I'm really late with this, but shouldn't the fans start up after the engine is running (except for a hot start)? And wouldn't it be better to have the fans shut off if the engine isn't running (to save the drain on the battery)?I'm planning on eventually doing the e-fan (fan clutch is going anyways) and just curious if there is any logic in doing otherwise. This is exactly what my fans do when I turn on the pathy. Once it reaches the temperature setting, they turn on. But if you had what happened to my when coming back from mexico and waiting in line for about 40 minutes with the a/c on and all of a sudden you see that the radio is turning off, then turns on again after a few seconds, then the pathy dies; you may want to upgrade to a higher output alternator like I am going to next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 (edited) This is exactly what my fans do when I turn on the pathy. Once it reaches the temperature setting, they turn on. But if you had what happened to my when coming back from mexico and waiting in line for about 40 minutes with the a/c on and all of a sudden you see that the radio is turning off, then turns on again after a few seconds, then the pathy dies; you may want to upgrade to a higher output alternator like I am going to next week. OK, I understand the situation now. Idle w/ A/C in the heat is already hard enough. I doubt an HO alt would have helped since you weren't even using nearly the potential of the 40 amper. Edited September 28, 2006 by Animal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver123 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Hey, I just put in a brand new 110A Quest alty today after my stock one packed it in this morning, turns out that it was still under warranty from when i replaced it and they gave me the Quest alty as a replacement which was awesome so the only thing i had to buy was the belt ($17) and i was on my way. I must say excellent topic guys and good info i managed to do the whole job including travel time to the parts store in about 4.5 hrs. Now my electric fan (out of a 1990 Taurus, thanx to the forum again for that info as well) works great with out draining my batteries when its on and im creeping in traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruBlu Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I'm really surprised to read that your fans are still running at 20A at full speed. Upgrading your cables to the fans and from the battery to ground and the alt to batt should help improve this situation. Throwing a capacitor in there might alleviate the problem but only slightly. It's more like a band-aid to a bigger issue. All my vehicles run with the big three upgrade, higher Ampere battery and upgraded alternator. If I can't find a better quality alternator for a car then I re-wire the alternator into Delta wiring form. It means my voltage drops a little but I can have a much higher current draw from the same alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headpeace Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Hey RedPath, what did you make your spacers out of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 you can get metal sleves @ the hardware store and cut them to length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Hey RedPath, what did you make your spacers out of? I happen to have a hollow core, steel rod that I cut them off of, worked perfect. But as MY1PATH mentioned, the hardware store should have something you can use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headpeace Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Hey Red, did you run new 6 ga to the battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 I did not. And so far I have not had any trouble. But I don't have a lot of power draw on it at the moment, if you do then running a new one can't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowser Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) The Link to Aarons Write up no longer works. Anyway we can get a hold of a copy of his write up and store it on our server. I hate relying on write ups posted from members personal sites. Keeping it all under 1 roof is much more reliable. And not to be too picky but Redpath88 On page 1 Post #6 your 4th photo is gone as well as post #13, 1st picture. Just a heads up. This is an amazing write up but without 88's write up it leaves holes for people to try and figure out. Edited February 11, 2011 by Dowser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Can't find the copies of those pics! Might have been on the hard drive that decided to NOT power up anymore I'll see if I can get a hold of Aaron about the writeup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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