Front end kit - swap 93+ tie rods, centerlink, ball joints, sway bar links onto a '91?

[ryan6351]

Hey all,

 

First time making a "real" post here. I recently acquired a 1991 Pathy with ~58k miles. Everything on the truck is 100% stock and original parts - I'll be doing the timing belt for the first time (!!!) asap as well, and the electronic shocks even still work which is crazy - and while it generally runs great, the suspension and steering bushings are pretty rough, and I suspect the ball joints have dryrotted too. I get a good amount of clunking, squeaking, and generally not a great ride from the front end. I've searched the forums as best I can but can't quite figure this one out.

 

I want to replace the front end steering/suspension components, but many of the pre-93 parts are discontinued/prohibitively expensive. I'll be using it mostly as a daily driver, no real wheeling (just the occasional camping trip).

I've found a front end rebuild kit for the 93-95s (https://www.1aauto.com/1993-95-nissan-pathfinder-front-14-piece-steering-and-suspension-kit-trq-psa56136/i/1asfk01145/666772?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAxKy5BhBbEiwAYiW--0THb6nQU_a56F2T8K7xGBo18VZ0Hg2wjmXrZX0YOu0g8Zu4kAubfRoCK84QAvD_BwE) at a great price, and I'm wondering if I can use it on my 91. I know that the centerlink is slightly different, but if I'm replacing the tie rod ends at the same time, I think that wouldn't be an issue. 

 

Does anyone know if there are any compatibility issues with the tie rod ends, sway bar links, or ball joints between 93 and 91, other than the different centerlink design?

 

Thanks!

[adamzan]

You would need to change out the Pitman arm to the different taper size IIRC. Rockauto seems to have all of the front end parts at a reasonable price for a 1991. The ball joints are all the same, though as well as the sway bar links.

 

I would get it in the air and check what parts actually have play in them, and grease any zerks you find (there are bolts that can be removed on the factory joints to install zerks). Replacing old tie rods, etc that aren't worn (tbh I would hold onto those original parts as long as you can because the new stuff is crap) won't improve the ride at all. Make sure the steering stops are greased up, they are a big source for front end noise. Check the tension rod (also called strut rod) bushings, they can cause some funny handling and the hole in the frame is usually slogged out from them being loose. There are numerous threads on it here. Make sure your tires are not 30 years old, and are the proper load range, as well as balanced properly.

 

If you are going to replace it all, try and stick with name brand parts, there's been a few people here over the years that regretted buying those ebay style kits. You just end up replacing it again and again.

Edited November 21, 2024 by adamzan

[Slartibartfast]

The tapers for the tie rod ends and pitman arm changed 8/92 for some reason. I found out the fun way, with an early '92 knuckle half installed on my '93 and a tie rod that just would not go in.

 

I haven't tried the kits. I bought the various front end joints for mine off Rockauto, mostly 555 if I remember right (I think some of it was sold as Beck/Arnley, but the actual parts were 555). Ball joints, tie rods, centerlink, idler. Turned out most of the slop that I was chasing was in the steering box. I tried to adjust it, screwed it up, replaced with a reman that turned out to be even sloppier (and the pitman shaft seal leaks just enough to piss me off). If you've chasing play or you've got a clunk in the steering, have someone saw the wheel back and forth while you crawl under the front and see what's got play in it. Sway bar links/bushings can also clunk pretty bad.

 

Put a dab of grease on the steering stops while you're under there. Those make haunted house noises at full lock if they're dry. I think they were supposed to have plastic caps on them at one point.

 

+1 for doing the strut rod bushings, though. Mine looked fine until I took them apart. I welded bearing cups to the frame on mine in place of the sheet metal bushing cups that were broken off.

Edited November 21, 2024 by Slartibartfast

[ryan6351]

Thank you @Slartibartfast and @adamzan - that's all helpful to hear. I didn't know about Rockauto, so I'll start there to search for better quality parts. There isn't much play at all in the steering box, but I do have a persistent pull to the right, and odd clunking when going over a bump while turning (not all the way to the stop). I'll start by doing a good inspection/grease job, and replace at least the strut rod bushings (if not ball joints and other bushings as well), then an alignment. 

 

I also noticed that my steering dampener is missing - the bracket for it is on the factory centerlink, but there's just no dampener in place. Would that make a significant difference in handling on-road?

 

Finally, the biggest issue with the front end is a crazy screeching/almost whistling noise I get only while turning the steering wheel left (at all - even just the slightest motion on minor curves). It's silent while turning right. I haven't been able to track down the source of the noise yet, as it only makes it while in motion. Maybe I'll be able to replicate it with the wheels off the ground. I suspect the PS pump (no leaks and fluid is clean) but I don't know enough to positively confirm yet. 

 

Fortunately tires were only a couple years and about 5000 miles old when I bought it - Pathfinders of course, ha. They're the factory size and proper load rating, and I've kept them inflated correctly, but I will definitely do a rotation/balance once I get the alignment as well. Thanks again y'all! 

[gamellott]

The occasional clunking and pulling, can be a number of things. I had a pull when I hit the brakes and clunking long after someone who didn't know what they were doing performed an alignment and didn't tighten up the upper control arm enough, galling the threads to one of the bolts mounting it to the frame. It's Still not properly fixed, but it's not moving anywhere after I drove it home with an impact hammer. Among other places, look there as well.

 

As far as a consistent pull, I would look at an alignment issue, worn out bushings... All of those things, considering the age, could be worn out.

 

Unless you put one on, I don't believe these things ever came with a factory installed steering dampener. I put one on a D21, and I noticed no difference in performance. Might be different if you are doing a lot of off-roading. I don't really know.

 

Squealing when turning.... That might be PS pump related, but it's worth giving the everything in the steering and bearings a once over before getting too deep into it. It almost sounds as though one of your problems could be a really bad front wheel bearing.... Get it off of the ground and push the wheel around on it's axis and see if you get much play.

 

Good Luck!! 

[Slartibartfast]

There's a part number for a stud to mount a steering stabilizer, so I imagine some of them came with one. I added one to mine, but, yeah, I can't really tell it's there. To be fair, I used the cheapest stabilizer I could find (>$20 IIRC, probably some Monroe crap), so your mileage may vary with a better unit. I'm also running a Grassroots centerlink, which has enough drag to do a fair bit of stabilizing on its own.

 

The clunk and the pull are likely related. +1 for checking the UCAs. The camber and caster are adjusted with U-shaped shims, and if the bolts back out, the shims fall out, and then your alignment goes full stance nation.

 

The squeal while turning is interesting. I doubt it's the pump--it shouldn't be able to tell which way you're turning. Might be a blocked passage or something in the box, but I haven't heard of one doing that, and it wouldn't explain why it only makes noise when you're moving. Maybe one of the wheel bearings is loose enough that the rotor is hitting the backing plate? Again, could be a shared cause with the clunk and the pull, depending on what's rubbing on what. Add bearings and brakes to your inspection list if they weren't there already.

 

If nothing jumps out at you when you inspect the front end, run it without the power steering belt and see if the noise goes away. That should rule the hydraulic components in or out.

[ryan6351]

Thanks again both - I’ll dig around this weekend with the wheels off the ground and see what I find. 

[adamzan]

If it's just a stock truck with OE sized tires, there's no real benefit from the steering damper. There's the oe style with the stud and there is the aftermarket ones that the heavier duty stabilizers come with, those do make a difference on a lifted wd21.

[FirstGenFreak]

On 11/21/2024 at 6:57 PM, Slartibartfast said:

The tapers for the tie rod ends and pitman arm changed 8/92 for some reason. I found out the fun way, with an early '92 knuckle half installed on my '93 and a tie rod that just would not go in.

 

I haven't tried the kits. I bought the various front end joints for mine off Rockauto, mostly 555 if I remember right (I think some of it was sold as Beck/Arnley, but the actual parts were 555). Ball joints, tie rods, centerlink, idler. Turned out most of the slop that I was chasing was in the steering box. I tried to adjust it, screwed it up, replaced with a reman that turned out to be even sloppier (and the pitman shaft seal leaks just enough to piss me off). If you've chasing play or you've got a clunk in the steering, have someone saw the wheel back and forth while you crawl under the front and see what's got play in it. Sway bar links/bushings can also clunk pretty bad.

 

Put a dab of grease on the steering stops while you're under there. Those make haunted house noises at full lock if they're dry. I think they were supposed to have plastic caps on them at one point.

 

+1 for doing the strut rod bushings, though. Mine looked fine until I took them apart. I welded bearing cups to the frame on mine in place of the sheet metal bushing cups that were broken off.

 

555 is the gold standard in my book Japanese quality, I use 555 in my other vehicles as well.  I try to find the oldest stock I can, as the earlier stuff is waaaaayyyyyyyy better. The centrelink in my car is a 555 item and is over 10 years old and still pretty good.

[ryan6351]

Have yet to do this, but I have finally done a good inspection of the suspension and steering components. Bushings generally all look good, with no dry rotting. Were probably replaced at some point. Metal elements also good, no excess wear and basically no rust. Ball joints? All completely deflated, several missing grease zerks with just an open hole in the joint, damaged rubber boots, etc. I'll plan to replace all the ball joints, tighten the end link-to-centerlink connections (they're loose around the bushings), and repack my auto locking hubs. 

 

The screeching noise when turning left is definitely coming from the brakes - a similar sound happens from the passenger wheel only when reversing, and I could feel the vibration in the brake when I spun it in reverse. Sounds like a retainer clip is rubbing on the rotor. I suspect that's the cause of the issue when turning left, but on the drivers side - something in the brake assembly rubbing intermittently. The sound stops when braking at all, or when turning right (maybe turning that direction flexes the brake line just enough?). Need new rotors and pads anyway so hopefully I find the cause in that project! Will update here with pics once I do the work. Timing belt first.... 

[gamellott]

Timing belt, especially if it's unknown when it was last done, is almost a Must!! There are places out there that make kits for these that include a water pump and tensioner pulley that are typically worth getting.

 

Squealing or grinding when turning coming from the brakes is more indicative of badly worn bearings. I haven't seen a hose be a cause of that, but then, I've heard of stranger things. If it's happening all of the time, more than likely it's the wear sensor on your brake pads. Maybe a combination of brake pads and lose bearings? Or maybe it's metal to metal and the brake sensor is still attached? Get the wheel off and have a look....

 

One thing about these when turning, and I experienced this on my D21 as well, When the wheel is turned into the stops, it makes a hideous noise if you hit uneven pavement or a curb. That's entirely because the stops hit a bolt on the spindle and they grind. Could that be your problem with the grinding noise?

 

Good Chassis parts are becoming harder to find. The typical auto parts store will only have stuff made in China and the quality is typically pretty poor IMHO. I really don't think these things had zirk fittings installed from the factory. Even the New Drag Link I got from NAPA didn't have them. And Yes, I paid the higher dollar price at NAPA because I didn't want the cheap Chinese part. The Lower Ball joints, even new, will feel bad, unless they changed the design. I didn't take it apart, but I think the ball sits in a cone that is not captured like I've seen on others. Its really wonky when it's not under tension.

 

 

[adamzan]

The noise could also be slight play in the bearings allowing the rotor to move just enough that it is contacting the backing plate. I have had that happen before.

 

@gamellott They didn't have zerks but had a bolt that you removed to install a zerk. I agree it is hard to find good chassis parts these days. I usually just buy the cheap stuff because the lifetime warranty stuff seems to be 3x the price for 0x the quality.

 

The best TRE, ball joints etc for these were/are the "three five" brand, you could get them at napa at some point, and rock auto under beck/arnley.

Edited March 9 by adamzan

[ryan6351]

Thanks again @gamellott and @adamzan - agreed that timing belt is priority. I was able to get all OEM timing parts (belt, tensioner, water pump, front crank and cam seals) fortunately, but have yet to install. Been using this as my "daily" driver (but I only drive about 50 miles/week, at most) and so it's been hard to find time for it. Also had the starter motor go out, which I ended up spending a full day fighting to replace, and did a tune up/oil change while I was at it. Old filter was installed in 2023, but only about 2k miles ago. My goal is to do timing belt asap, then front end parts after, and finally figure out screeching after that.

 

I ended up buying all Mevotech "supreme" parts on RockAuto - they seem to be not the worst quality, but obviously time will tell once they're on. All greaseable with zerks included - they even had a replacement centerlink by Mevotech which I was pleasantly surprised to see, as I've read those are/were hard to find on the forums. 

 

Wheel screeching is also still unresolved - I've been able to pinpoint that it is coming from only the passenger side front wheel, and only when moving in reverse or turning left (anything off of dead straight - if I turn right at all it stops, and if I press the brakes it stops too). Maybe a loose pad or hardware? The rotors look a little worn, but I honestly don't know enough to say whether its abnormal wear or just typical for their (unknown) age. I need to inspect pads more closely, but at this point I plan to replace all 4 wheels' pads/rotors/bearings all at once and figure I'll find the cause during that process. Next time I have the wheels off I'll take some pics.

[ryan6351]

Finally going to overhaul my brakes soon - started hearing and feeling a deep grinding noise while braking, from the rear wheels, and upon further inspection all of my discs are slightly grooved, and there is a LOT of brake dust suddenly on the rear right (we had a bit of rain and when I parked my car, sparkly black water was running down the face of the rim). I think I just made it through the end of a pad. 

 

@gamellott I know you recently had some issues with your brakes - did you replace the rotors, or just pads/overhauling calipers? I'm wondering if it's possible to do the front and rear brakes without disassembling the wheel bearings (for whatever reason the thought of rebuilding those bearings really intimidates me). Edited to add that as far as I can tell there is zero play in the bearings - I can't get these wheels to wobble even in the slightest (other than the ball joint wobble).

Edited March 27 by ryan6351

[gamellott]

@ryan6351I did replace both rear disks when I did this years ago. The one rotor was excessively ground asymmetrically on one side. It NEEDED to be replaced. I got the slotted/drilled rotors and I really don't think it was worth the money, but they look cool when the wheel is off!!

 

When you pull the rear rotors, you can inspect the parking brakes to see if there is any leakage from the rear axle seal.... That's a whole different rabbit hole!!

 

The fronts, in order to get the rotors off and replace them, there is really no way around pulling the bearings and hub. It's not a difficult job. There are specs and torques in the procedure that I have never really done and I've never had a problem with them as a result of my negligence to the procedure.

 

Hope this helps!! Good Luck!!!!

[ryan6351]

Thanks! I appreciate it. For the front I'll just do my best - I was planning to do the brakes in a few weeks but obviously that scheduled has moved up. I'll start with the rear this weekend since they're in desperate need and then do fronts if I have time; if not, then next weekend. 

[ryan6351]

First of the brakes - this was the one making horrible grinding. Looks like I'd worn through one of the ORIGINAL OEM (!!!!) brake pad and was down to metal. Considering I've only done about 1,000 miles, I obviously should've checked and had them replaced pre-emptively. Lesson learned. What concerns me is that the inside pad wasn't worn at all - need to keep an eye on the replacement to make sure it's not sticking. 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JTK38uWgV7gtPYubLdHZK3UMe2eb4IWn/view?usp=drive_link, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wYf8Do_rSK_vSkFixOpjpFAyC4xkweDm/view?usp=drive_link, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mxm69Dp6Wku9M4W7gKBi_B1HpPwQuEaf/view?usp=drive_link, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SKFzVQ4EoTkS4BFmwcY7A193wa8Zcy19/view?usp=drive_link, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MXuF3ThPAdKlMWiqx4V1Gt3lbMXQGbTp/view?usp=drive_link

 

On to the other three, and hopefully discovering the source of my right-side intermittent screeching. 

Edited March 29 by ryan6351

[ryan6351]

Also note how much brake dust had accumulated on the tire - it's only been a week since I last washed it.

[gamellott]

Can't get to the pictures....

 

If it's lopsided wear you're experiencing, you should inspect the guide pins. They bolt in, and are greased with a boot that keeps the grease in and will easily slide the caliper left to right or vice versa. Also, as I have discussed, check the pistons that they push back in freely. If you get significant resistance, or you see rust around the dust boot, they could probably need some loving.

[Slartibartfast]

Wearing one pad and not the other sounds like slide pins to me too. Clean/lube those if you haven't already.

 

Down to metal would certainly explain the screeching.

[adamzan]

On the rears there is only 1 bolt and the caliper hinges on the large pin. That is always where mine have stuck. Clean and inspect that carefully. On my current wd21, the pin was slightly bent causing the caliper not to slide smoothly (or at all really when it was all together). No doubt from a careless mechanic hammering on it to remove the caliper.

 

Also your images don't work. You'll need to set them as public or use something like imgur.

Edited March 31 by adamzan

[ryan6351]

Sorry about the drive link - couldn’t find the sharing settings so I added to Imgur here: https://imgur.com/a/YpOcZxQ

 

Pins definitely needed grease. Cleaned them well, inspected the boots, and re-lubed with appropriate grease. Hard to tell from pictures but it looked like some of the pads had actually rusted to the caliper bracket around the retaining clips - there was rust built up everywhere. 
 

Pistons seemed to move easily enough with the caliper tool and the bleeder screw open, but the brake fluid that came out of one caliper was BLACK and seemed to have some sort of fine sediment. It was way darker than the fluid in the reservoir. Gonna do a full system flush once I change the front brakes next weekend.  
 

New brakes working MUCH better - doing the front rotors and pads later (parts were out of stock and had to ship). 

[adamzan]

Nice, damn those are some old pads! The OEM rotors on these, especially the front are pretty bombproof. I have had mine machined twice. I would try and save them if you can. So much better quality than what is sold these days.

[ryan6351]

Good to know! I threw out the rotor pictured (for obvious reasons, ha) but will try to keep the fronts if they're not too bad. I can see that they're grooved even with the wheel on but haven't taken them off to see how deeply they're grooved yet. If they're really shallow I may have them machined and keep them as spares. 

[adamzan]

You can likely machine them and still be above the minimum thickness, especially with that mileage.