Onboard air in an R50.

[96Pathfinder4x4]

So, not that my dual battery and power distribution projects are 99.99% completed, I'm researching onboard air options.

 

My HF air compressor did not do the job on the last trip and rather than leech off others, I need to be self-sustaining for trips. The HF compressor was good when I had 31x9.5 tires, but with the 33x12.5 it doesn't work. It got so hot it shutoff after only putting 7 or 8 psi in ONE tire. I thought it fried, but I guess it has a temp shutoff feature.

 

Right now I am considering the VIAIR Ultra Duty system. I figure for $100 more than the Heavy Duty (up to 35" tires) it's worth the benefits of being able to use air tools and it's "for all tires" so I can also fill up others in need. Reference link: http://www.viaircorp.com/OffRoad/oba.html

 

I see others with onboard air, but can't see many pics (outdated) of where they mounted the tanks and compressors. I also have only seen one in the R50 section. 01silverpathy, IIRC? I am thinking of mounting the tank in the storage compartment...if it would fit??? I would need some way to extend the drain, so I can drain it in between trips and access it when needed. I may have to remake my rear storage or modify it somehow. The pump would either go under the hood or also in the storage compartment.

 

Throwing ideas out there... If anyone has pics of how they set up theirs, I would appreciate it.

 

I considered the spare tire carrier, but I plan to put the gas cans there. I considered the roof rack, but would be concerned about theft. The other option is in the storage system that I built....making one section dedicated to the tank/pump/etc.

 

[stioc]

I mounted my MV-50 next to the battery. I don't have a tank for it and haven't needed it for my 32s but if I had your setup and wanted a tank it would go under the truck (where the spare tire goes on the later models) or I would use the sliders as air tanks. XPLORx4 has had that setup (sliders) for years that predate us. In fact, his setup is so slick he connects the air hoses to the tires and walks away...the pressure switches and his artistic plumbing of the various T's and L's takes care of the rest.

[96Pathfinder4x4]

I looked at his thread (one of the ones where the links are dead). If you find it, he links to his Shutterfly site....there's a couple of pics but not much. I don't think I'd be comfortable doing it that way. I would have a pucker factor every time the sliders hit a rock. I've been doing some online searching and I like the idea of running the intake of the compressor to the airbox. It's a pretty simplistic idea that I didn't think of. I looked at the MV50 and MV90. However for a few dollars invested, I can run an air tool. I live in a condo and anytime I want to run my compressor I have to run a heavy duty extension cord to the garage. (PITA.) Even for a quick air-up or air grinder action.

 

I didn't think about under the truck...I'm going to crawl under there and look...maybe there's room to mount the tank and protect it somehow. Do the later models have the storage compartment also? I also had thoughts of cutting that out to mount the tank there, but also have access to the drain.

 

A couple of useful threads that I found searching the forums.

 

Interesting idea. Uses rear bumper, but no pics.

http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/24483-onboard-air-revisited/?hl=%2Bonboard+%2Bair

XPLORx4's thread. Again no pics, but the link in his profile sends you to his Shutterfly account...can spend a few minutes there with visual trip reports. Also where I learned about the MV50.

http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/13995-on-board-air/?hl=%2Bonboard+%2Bair&do=findComment&comment=230243

 

[96Pathfinder4x4]

So, my plan is possibly/hopefully have an air-locker setup. The MV50 doesn't have an automatic shutoff, which is required for the air locker. However the inexpensive cost may be my swaying factor for the time being... I may just go with a simple mount for now and add later.

 

Did you order your MV50 from Amazon?

[SilverPath]

I'm not sure if I read that right but be cautious about installing your compressor intake into your engine intake, when the vehicle is running the the vacuum that it will cause will reduce the performance of the air compressor.

 

Just wire in a Pressure switch in your tank to kill power to the pump, then you can build a manifold to hook your solenoids to for the ARBs

[96Pathfinder4x4]

Intake of the compressor from the air box. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

...from my cell...using Tapatalk

 

 

[92Path_68CJ]

Here's my .02.

 

Anyone who does serious wheeling and uses a bumper, slider, or any other part as a tank is asking for trouble.

 

The last thing you need is your rear bumper going pop while you're wheeling.

 

Get a tank, and mount it inside, or outside. If you mount it underside, get a skid plate for it.

[stioc]

I see what you guys are saying but seriously if you can put a hole in a 3/16" DOM tubing or equivalent you should be driving an M1 Abram I have never seen let alone experience a situation where a slider cracked. Also remember there's a difference between volume (CFM) and pressure (psi), sliders can only hold very little amount of air. If you're talking about running air-tools you'll need a fairly large tank. AlexRex mounted his Viair tank (1 or 1.5gal) in the stock tire location under the truck tuck well out of the way but he said running air tools was alas just a nice dream.

 

Also x2 on what SilverPath said.

[theexbrit]

I'm thinking of getting the 5 gallon aluminum tank from Hazard Fraught & fixing up a compressor in the vehicle that can inflate it . It means running air pipes but the pump itself will be inside. I was thinking of using a 110v compressor with an inverter but I'm not sure what the start draw on the pump would be. Probably too much for a vehicle, even with dual batteries.

[linkinpark]

I just installed the high flow arb pump on my pathy. Can fill my 35s from 6 to 30 in about 90 seconds each.

[ferrariowner123]

I'm thinking of getting the 5 gallon aluminum tank from Hazard Fraught & fixing up a compressor in the vehicle that can inflate it . It means running air pipes but the pump itself will be inside. I was thinking of using a 110v compressor with an inverter but I'm not sure what the start draw on the pump would be. Probably too much for a vehicle, even with dual batteries.

I see a quest alternator in your future!

 

-Kyle

[XPLORx4]

I'd like to offer a comment about how I use my sliders as air storage.

 

First, I would like to note that my on-board air system serves only two purposes:

1) activate air-lockers

2) tire reinflation

 

When the OBA is used for locker engagement, the sliders are valved off - they don't store compressed air. I don't want to wait for the ~2 gal of air to fill to 85psi in order to engage the lockers.

 

When airing back up prior to getting back on the highway, I open the hood and switch the valve to route air into the sliders, then turn on the compressor. It begins filling the sliders, which basically function as very large diameter rigid "hoses" to make it super convenient to air up all 4 tires simultaneously, since I have quick-disconnect fittings mounted fore and aft to the sides of the slider tubes in protected locations to which I attach 2-foot-long hoses that reach each tire. Because I have a pressure regulator going to the sliders, the most that they will ever go to is 35 psi. I usually bring a second, spare, portable MV50 that I connect in parallel to the OBA system in order to halve the time required to air up my tires. I just turn on the compressor(s) and after a few minutes, all 4 tires are aired up to the same pressure.

 

This contrasts to my friends who need to air up their tires one at a time.

 

I do not find much need to operate air tools using my OBA. I have a garage compressor for that. I don't carry air tools with me when wheeling anyway.

 

As for being worried about damaging the air fittings on the sliders, the first few times I went after making this mod, I was a bit timid, but they have held up to very severe abuse for the past 5 years and have not sustained damage at all. The only way they could get damaged is if I select a very poor line over sharp jagged rocks that I had no business trying to "slide" over anyway. The sliders are .120 wall 2x2, so it's highly unlikely they will develop a leak.

 

For any OBA system, you need to evaluate how you intend to use it and how often. If you're frequently on the trail and wishing you had air tools to repair stuff you break, then by all means install a large air tank and heavy-duty compressor under the body in the spare tire location. However, you may be better served getting a PowerTank. On the other hand, if you only need to air up your tires at the end of a trail run, you don't need air storage; you just need a relatively high-volume compressor.

[96Pathfinder4x4]

I just installed the high flow arb pump on my pathy. Can fill my 35s from 6 to 30 in about 90 seconds each.

What model?

 

AlexRex mounted his Viair tank (1 or 1.5gal) in the stock tire location under the truck tuck well out of the way but he said running air tools was alas just a nice dream.

True. After research, I don't know why they show air tools next to them. The only way to run air tools is to spend the dough for a custom belt running a pump. Some vehicles have AC delete kits. Probably not much for the R50 since there isn't a whole lot of aftermarket support to begin with...

[XPLORx4]

What model?

 

Probably this one (ARBCKMA12).

[96Pathfinder4x4]

What model?

 

Probably this one (ARBCKMA12).

 

Not I... For $200 less I can get a VIAIR system with tank.

 

Thanks for sharing your info and experience!

 

Can you post pics of your sliders? I found your Shutterfly link, but didn't see pics.

Also, what type regulator are you using to limit the air to 35psi?

You have the air solenoid on a switch?

I've read that you need a compressor with auto shutoff in order to activate air lockers.

[XPLORx4]

I don't have pics of my sliders hosted online anymore. My previous website host became defunct. I'll have to dig around my computer to see if I can get some new ones up again.

 

For the ARB lockers, I have a pressure switch to shut off the compressor automatically at the correct pressure, like this one.

 

And of course, the ARB solenoids themselves use the ARB switches and wiring harness that came with the ARB locker when I first installed it.

 

The pressure regulator is a standard one I bought at Home Depot, like this one.

 

Pic of my OBA setup

Edited December 4, 2013 by XPLORx4

[96Pathfinder4x4]

Lots to think about. Since I don't have the locker, I will plan on plumbing a t-valve to accomodate it's future use. Is that brass plumbing?

 

I need a compressor first and foremost. So.....

 

Here's my thoughts...do this in steps.

1) Buy the MV50 compressor...best price I see right now is Amazon, since I also get free shipping. 8)

2) Mount compressor with intake to air box.

3) Plumb compressor with 35 psi switch, T-connection, air connection, and pressure gauge.

4) Hose long enough to reach all 4 tires from engine bay.

 

I'm either going to do:

a) removeable tank mounted to roof rack

permanent tank, mounted under rear

c) Have rock sliders made that hold air.

 

Thoughts, comments, ideas?

 

I found a very thorough review on the MV50 here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/131953-bfads-superflow-mv-50-air-compressor-build.html

Edited December 5, 2013 by 96Pathfinder4x4

[stioc]

I think you're over thinking this too much

 

1) Buy the MV50 compressor...best price I see right now is Amazon, since I also get free shipping. 8)

2) Mount compressor with intake to air box.

3) Plumb compressor with 35 psi switch, T-connection, air connection, and pressure gauge.

4) Hose long enough to reach all 4 tires from engine bay.

 

That's the setup I have and it's documented in my build thread. Should work fine with your 33s. It's certainly good enough for 32" tires to be filled up in about 7-10 mins from low 20s to high 30s. By having the MV50 hard mounted I cut down my total time by 10mins because I don't have to remove it from the bag, connect the wires, hose etc and then repack everything while it's still hot enough to sear the skin right off. And 10mins certainly doesn't feel all that long.

 

Anyway that should be a decent starting point and then you can build upon it later as you go if you move up to the 35s and turn a fantastic looking rig into a rock-crawling truggy

Edited December 5, 2013 by stioc

[SilverPath]

They do get pretty hot!, I think I lost some of my fingerprints haha when I had mine portable

[linkinpark]

Yes I went with the best pump I could find. Has the highest cfm and quality. I didn't want to wait for an hour while filling up tires. I was able to fill up my 35s and four sets of 33s in less than 30 min. Plus the arb pumps are 100% duty cycle. Made for running constantly. One thing I will add tho. Get a new alternator. I swapped in a quest one and it makes a difference.

[96Pathfinder4x4]

I swapped in a quest one and it makes a difference.

I was going to ask about this. Quest? Is that a brand?

 

The reason to plumb to the intake is to prevent sand, dust, etc. from entering the engine. I've done alot of baja bug driving, so I know dust and sand get everywhere. It's an idea, I've thought of incorporating. I also read yesterday that others only run the stock filter with no issues. I may hold off on that one...if I can remember to do filter maintenance. I'm a busy single dad.

See this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f27/my-costco-q-maxx-mv50-compressor-build-700416/

 

The reason for the plumbing is to plan for the tank addition. That's for sure getting done. Stioc: Does the airline that came with it reach all 4 tires???

I want a pressure switch, so it's a "set it and forget it" operation. I'm on my own to dismantle my tent and pack up. This way I don't have to check the tire every couple of minutes or worry about overinflating because my daughter has to go pee or my son falls and starts crying (both of these happened while I was packing up last time.

 

I'm also considering carrying a spare, since I've learned that my light duty ones won't fill up a 33x12.5 tire....and they're only $60.

[XPLORx4]

Quest, as in Nissan Quest (minivan). The stock Nissan Quest alternator output is ~120a whereas the Pathfinder is ~90a.

 

I don't know if there are pressure switches that will shut off precisely at a typical tire-inflation pressure. They usually have a range, such as as off@105psi, on@85psi, so you will need both a pressure switch and a regulator for automatic operation.

 

The MV50 includes a sintered metal air filter which does a decent job of filtering out larger particles such as sand. Given the frequency of operation and volume of air pumped while the compressor is running (usually when you're stopped, not driving and kicking up loads of dirt/dust), I don't think there is a tremendous amount of value in routing the compressor air intake through the air intake of the engine. The air in your tires doesn't need to be as clean as the air going into your engine. Besides, whenever the engine is running, you will be subjecting the compressor's head to engine vacuum, and providing yet another opportunity for an engine intake vacuum leak (and potential SMOG check failure).

 

The air hose that comes with the MV50 doesn't reach all 4 tires if the compressor is hard-mounted. The air hose's output is also a screw-on schrader valve fitting that continues to leak air when not screwed on. You are better served by installing a quick-disconnect fitting to the compressor's output and buying a coiled air hose and clip-on air chuck to inflate your tires.

 

If it is not practical for you inflate your tires one at a time, consider building something like your own version of the 4air 4-tire inflation system.

 

As noted earlier in this thread, my version of the 4air system uses my sliders.

Edited December 5, 2013 by XPLORx4

[stioc]

I totally hear you man! I got divorced after 10 years and I too am a single dad - of a 9yo. You're doing a great job taking your kids out camping and having fun. They'll remember and cherish the memories for the rest of their lives. I'm very lucky to have found a super awesome gf who helps out a ton

 

OK so as far as the OBA setup, the MV50/ARB etc come with a built-in foam filter and it does a fine job of preventing most of the junk from going into your tires. Assuming that's why you want to do it I just think it's too much extra work for something you don't necessarily need to worry about but I'm not the one to discourage a man on a mission

 

As for the hose, I didn't like it at all, it was cheaply made and I had to thread it in and out of each tire. So, I tapped the MV50 for a standard 1/4 fittings and bought the ARB pump up kit.

 

Here's a thought for you to consider if you want 10sec tire fillups- PowerTank with CO2. They're pricey and you do have to make sure they're full before you take them on a trip but I guess you can't have everything.

[stioc]

Looks like XPLORx4 and I were typing almost the same thing at almost the same time...

[96Pathfinder4x4]

To clarify, the intake of the pump wouldn't be to the engine's intake.

It would be routed to the air cleaner/filter box...well before smog equipment and wouldn't affect vacuum. To scavenge filtered air. I guess some of the complaints/failures with the MV50 has been blamed on dirt entering the intake of the pump. I haven't decided 100% on doing it yet...it's still on the table and can always be added. I sometimes go to Superstition and some areas can be very silty. (for those that don't know...essentially powdered sand). Some have mentioned years of use with no problems, but I don't know where they venture.

 

It's time for a new air filter, so I am also upgrading to a K&N to help with filtering and I hate buying filters. I've ran K&N or some version of a reusable filter on every vehicle/motorcycle/offroad toy I've ever owned. 8)

 

I did see a guy that made that 4 way system, but I was thinking of just a 2-way. Maybe if I get 2 pumps or if I add a removeable tank and have more pressure, I will go 4-way.

 

They do make adjustable air pressure, electrical switches. It will get it in the ballpark, then I can discriminate wheel by wheel.

 

No...no 10 second fillups. A few minutes won't kill me. But being in government service for so long, I always go overkill and as efficient as possible. Better to overdo and be able to backoff a bit than to underdo and have to redo. That's why I plan to plumb for the tank and add it later. My buddy made a good point...if you don't have a tank and pop a bead, you won't have the rush of air needed to get it back on the rim. Just things to think about.