MY1PATH Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) First off what is a VG33+? The "+" symbol is typically given to engines that are running a trubo on an higher compression ratio (often a previously NA engine still running the higher NA pistons) and makes more power than its factory counterpart. BUT VG33+ I built is a NA 3.3L with a CR of 10:1 (stock being only 9:1) And we should already know that a VG34 is a 3.4L with a CR between 10:1~10.3:1 Both engines should put out very similar numbers if everything else is configured the same.They dyno sheet below Is VG33+ running OEM European Z31 cams (long duration), minor port work and a heavy 24lb flywheel. (red line; vg33+ blue line; my old 3.0 for power increase comparison ) If you factor in drive-train loss vg33+ and vg34 are both ~200hp engines. I had to doctor up the sheet a little bit. The numbers are intact but it got wet and torn... it had a rough ride from Tacoma, WA to the Mojave Desert in SoCal.Build details will likely be another thread. Edited June 10, 2013 by MY1PATH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Nice! Good info, thanks for sharing. I always suspected that a good shape VG33 with VG30 cams, intake and headers should hit 200hp and this indicates it should be close. That might not be a big deal to a lot of people, but it is quite a step up from a tired, stock VG30! Two questions: What is your intake/exhaust set up and what does your butt dyno say? B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) My but dyno says it pulls harder esp in the 3.5-4.5k range but starts to run out of breath over 5k. A gain of 50hp seems like it would be enjoyable for anyone Intake; Port matched lower with phenolic spacer and stock upper manifold (defeats the port matching but I didn't have time to finish the job.Exhaust; Thorley long tubes, 2.25 Pipe and Cat, magnaflow muffler with a wheel well dumpI would Expect a more arch like curve (not as flat) with 10-15 lower peaks for a stock 3.3 running 3.0 cams.I do like how my numbers to the wheels are almost the same as what a stock 3.0 puts out at the crank. (VG30E produced 153 hp and 182 lb·ft) Edited June 10, 2013 by MY1PATH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Nice bump in the torque as well ! You are comparing your VG33+ to a VG30, where does a stock VG33 fit in there? I guess it would be better than the VG30 but below your VG33+. Is Nissan Nut a member on here? Do you guys know of him? He has a lot of good info on his site about the VG33 swap, along with lots of pictures comparing the 2 engines. http://nissannut.com/maintenance/vg33e_upgrade/ Edited June 10, 2013 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) Q. ... where does a stock VG33 fit in there? I guess it would be better than the VG30 but below your VG33+.... A. ...I would Expect a more arch like curve (not as flat) with 10-15 lower peaks for a stock 3.3 running 3.0 cams.... Fully stock? I predict 15-20 with a steeper drop in torque after 4.5k rpm if you are using stock 3.3 cams in stock 3.3. With drive train loss a stock 3.3 would probably peak 144/178. Yeah I know nissannut we've pm'd a few times over the years. He's on N4W and 4x4 parts, I don't think I've seen him here tho. Edited June 11, 2013 by MY1PATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I like it, that extra HP is just the right amount needed for a good time in a WD21. Are there any aftermarket flat 3.3 pistons available? If I'm not mistaken, you achieved higher compression by decking the block and shaving the heads right? Just by going to flat pistons on the 3.3 over the factory supplied dished ones, you could theoretically get to the same 10:1 CR. That is one reason people go to a VG34 style bores, the VH45 pistons are flat so no other geometrical modifications are needed aside from boring. Also I know you have a stick shifter but for automatic the lower RPM power band is nicer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) I like it, that extra HP is just the right amount needed for a good time in a WD21. Are there any aftermarket flat 3.3 pistons available? If I'm not mistaken, you achieved higher compression by decking the block and shaving the heads right? Just by going to flat pistons on the 3.3 over the factory supplied dished ones, you could theoretically get to the same 10:1 CR. That is one reason people go to a VG34 style bores, the VH45 pistons are flat so no other geometrical modifications are needed aside from boring. Also I know you have a stick shifter but for automatic the lower RPM power band is nicer. Q45 pistons are not flat. they have 4 valve reliefs in them from the 4 valve head and they need to be cut for the vg30 valves so in the end they have 6 relifs in them. (did you read mr510's vg34 thread and see the pictures?) Now, the reason the q45 pistons raise the compression ratio is because they are ~1.5 mm larger and the piston is ~1mm taller above the pin. 3.0 and 3.3 pistons sit just a hair below flush with the deck of the block but vg34 pistons actually pop up just a little. The tollerance is so close with a vg34 that if you assembled one with out a head gasket and turned it over the pistons would hit the heads. And that is where you get your increase in compression ratio. Yes, I shaved my heads in 2 overlaping passes using a 4" fly cutter on a bridgeport that was zeroed to within 0.0005" before we started. But I did not modify the block at all. I actually started with a brand new vg33 short block still in factory plastic and bolted everything on from there. But now I'm getting into build details which will be another thread.... and for Auto, the TC stall point is about 2500 rpm so you actually want all your power to start there and go up becuse the TC does not slip above that RPM. Edited June 11, 2013 by MY1PATH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastpath Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Making me wish I had put the Euro-Cams in mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Making me wish I had put the Euro-Cams in mine No worries, when you can afford it go back and do it. Alki should be able to get you a good price. I think the next cams I am going to try are the JWT S1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastpath Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 No worries, when you can afford it go back and do it. Alki should be able to get you a good price. I think the next cams I am going to try are the JWT S1. I can afford it. I just don't know how much I want to take the engine apart again right now. I'll be interested to see a dyno with the JWT S1 cams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Making me wish I had put the Euro-Cams in mine Not too late? I hear you on not wanting to fix what isn't broken though, it gets worse as you age so get on it or give it up... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) I can afford it. I just don't know how much I want to take the engine apart again right now. I'll be interested to see a dyno with the JWT S1 cams. The usa 3.0 cams are still pretty good, wakes the 3.3 up from its tiny stock cams. The JWT will be going into a completely different engine pushing 300hp... Edited June 13, 2013 by MY1PATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Very cool info! I'm in the process of seeing what I can get out of a stock 3.3 with 200k km on it. I hope to get results as nice as those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Very cool info! I'm in the process of seeing what I can get out of a stock 3.3 with 200k km on it. I hope to get results as nice as those! Good luck, I think JWT S1 and some headers should get you the same numbers but you will not have the same low end unless you raise the compression ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Yeah so far my list will be as follows... healthy vg33e 170 psi across the board, early z31 cams, n62 maf, vg33e intake manifold and throttle body, gasket matched intake runners, obx headers, 2.5" custom exhaust and a custom ecu tune to bring it all together. I'm hoping the tune will be what gets me there, but yeah the low end probably won't be as flat, lol. Anyways, looks good man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyourface1650 Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I see the power, but at what cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) Yeah so far my list will be as follows... healthy vg33e 170 psi across the board, early z31 cams, n62 maf, vg33e intake manifold and throttle body, gasket matched intake runners, obx headers, 2.5" custom exhaust and a custom ecu tune to bring it all together. I'm hoping the tune will be what gets me there, but yeah the low end probably won't be as flat, lol. Anyways, looks good man I think The N62 MAF will lean out AFR and cost you power if you don't 1) calibrate (maf pot if it goes far enough, ecu/nisutne) or 2) compensate (go to larger injectors at the same time) I see the power, but at what cost? Complete used VG33ER with all accessories $500 Doesn't really count, I'm still using the rest of the engine for another project but I barrowed parts off of it that I got back when I pulled my 3.0 out. Euro cams $200 NEW OLD STOCK VG33 short block still in factory plastic $650 shipped EE Crank pulley adapter $80 Victor gasket kit misc assembly parts ~$500 If you play your cards right ~$1200 for a fresh engine that's 50hp more than stock 3.0 Last I checked a fresh manufactured 3.0 from any vendor is over $2500 Edited June 15, 2013 by MY1PATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Yeah I am going to be running the n62 maf and going to be tuning my pathfinders ecu. Probably start with an emulator until I get the most out of it then hard burn an eeprom once i have a solid bin. I'll be running a wideband with live knock monitor to get the most out of it. Love the setup though, can't wait to see it with a supercharger. I am keeping mine factory compression ratio to run a rear mount turbo eventually,you should take some pics of your rig, I wanna see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 BTW, MPG has not gone down. Pulling a 2 ton trailer during my move @ ~55 mph I managed 18 mpg on my best tank.Today, I went into down (30 miles each way) and keeping my speed under 70 I managed almost 20 mpg and I had a few hard accelerations and barked the tires a few times while doing so.Most my mixed driving and city driving has been getting me about the same mpg's I figured this much would be the case when I selected the euro cam over some of the more aggressive options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Makes sense. I'm guessing you have enough HP now that you don't use as much throttle and the engine simply doesn't have to work as hard. The entire system probably works more efficiently now. The larger displacement and fuel demand evens it back out again... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncodee Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Building up vg34 I wonder If I where I could find a bigger compatable throttle body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hytekrednek Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Have you started the build thread for this engine yet. If so could you post the link for us??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I believe single cam ka24e throttle body may be an upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I believe single cam ka24e throttle body may be an upgrade? NOPE, NO, Not at all. 7,500 rpm WOT and no excessive restriction shown on the VAC gauge. The choke point on the pathfinder intake is the MAF. Going to a larger throttle when you don't need to just reduces the smoothness of your low throttle control (0-20% opening) and throws off your ECU TPS scales. Edited July 27, 2014 by MY1PATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Oh really eh, I figured nissan went to a larger throttle body in the vg33e intake manifold for a reason. That's the manifold and throttle body I'm converting to with my vg33e swap. We shall see about any improvements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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