Megasquirting my WD21

[Adam]

I'm starting this thread a little bit early but next month I will be Megasquirting my Pathfinder. I originally bought this MS3X kit to swap a 3.0l I6 from a 2001 BMW 330ci into my 86 BMW 325e, and I've made plenty of strides towards that but still don't have the engine in yet. Money has mainly been keeping me back on that project.

 

One of the things I've needed to purchase for some time is a wideband O2 sensor (I'll be using the Innovate LC-1). I'm a guitar builder but that doesn't pay the bills really and I'm also a college student using the GI Bill, which is my only real source of income currently because building guitars is pretty fruitless. Having recently totaled my 87 BMW 635csi hydroplaning during a really bad storm my Pathfinder has become my daily driver again.

 

My Pathfinder currently only has 2 'mods', a K&N filter and I've bored the MAF .250" over. The MAF boring has really caused a hit on my fuel economy though it has given me a very noticeable boost in power. I'm only average 14mpg currently and that's on stock sized tires and stock ride height.

 

I really like my Pathfinder, quite a bit, and seeing that it's my daily driver I've decided to convert it to Megasquirt so I can attempt to get a bit more power while also getting better fuel economy.

 

So I've already built the ECU, I've tested it and it's working.

 

Here's what I started with:

 

 

Here's what I ended up with:

 

 

The MS3X board isn't installed hence the open plug, it is installed currently though.

 

My plan is to purchase the Innovate LC-1, a spare WD21 ECU (I'm going to attempt to build the Megasquirt into the stock ECU housing, using the stock plug so that it's plug and play, may pick this up earlier if I can find a dead one cheap), and this trigger wheel. I will be converting it from distributor type ignition to sequential ignition while I'm at it. I'm going to be looking into what 6 cylinder coil packs I can buy as well in the meantime...

 

A couple last things, the Megasquirt uses a MAP sensor instead of a MAF so I'll be able to get that restrictive piece of crap out of the system. The other question I have is if there are any throttlebodies I can fined that have a bit wider opening that will bolt up with little or no modification? If not I'll send mine into MaxBore and have it bored.

 

I've seen one thread on here about converting to Megasquirt (and turboing), but are there any others? I've already tried Googling but when I find anything VG30E related it's mainly talking about how you COULD do it, not about actually doing it.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Adam

[Adam]

Well, found an ECU for 19.99 shipped on Ebay so I snagged it. Looks like I can get started much quicker than the 1st.

 

Actually, I just ordered the LC-1 as well, let's get this shindig started.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Adam

[lint]

Dude, I have really no idea what the heck project you are on! Regardless, you seem to know what you're talkin'bout so I'll be following your thread, and maybe I'll get schooled!!

 

[devonianwalk]

Dude, I have really no idea what the heck project you are on! Regardless, you seem to know what you're talkin'bout so I'll be following your thread, and maybe I'll get schooled!!

 

 

 

*ditto*

[Adam]

Megasquirt is a fully programmable ECU that also allows all kinds of awesome datalogging. I'm going to be able to tune the Pathfinder up to get me more power and better economy by basically replacing the ancient tech in the stock ECU with a modern ECU.

[Rebel526]

.....*pulls up a chair*

[Nefarious]

I have wanted to ms for a while to take advantage of my Vg33 swap and breather mods/ca, also for the eventual turbo. Looking forward to this thread. Are you going to run coil on plug or distributor?? How much was your ms kit?is it ms3 ? How much?

[1994SEV6]

Wow...

You can't just press a button on some fancy computer and gain a bunch of power and fuel economy.

If you believe that's possible, you need to take a look at this site. http://www.autochipsdirect.com/

 

What you need to do is go to a junkyard and get a stock MAF and put that back on your truck. Hopefully that will put you back above 14mpg.

You obviously have MUCH bigger priorities than making the only vehicle you have left extremely unreliable.

[Adam]

Wow...

You can't just press a button on some fancy computer and gain a bunch of power and fuel economy.

If you believe that's possible, you need to take a look at this site. http://www.autochipsdirect.com/

 

What you need to do is go to a junkyard and get a stock MAF and put that back on your truck. Hopefully that will put you back above 14mpg.

You obviously have MUCH bigger priorities than making the only vehicle you have left extremely unreliable.

 

..... Spoken like someone who doesn't understand what I'm doing. I'm not interested in any of this, this is the path I am taking, and yes, you can tune in more power, it's not like the VG30 is fully tapped out from the factory. And nothing I'm doing will make anything "extremely unreliable," I can toss in the stock ECU at any moment, this is all going to be done without a single modification to the harness.

 

Just watch this thread, I'll show you the way... literally, step by step. I'm thinking I should do some before/after dynoing as well.

 

edit: I know I probably came off like an ass here, I just tire of these kinds of preconceived notions when it comes to tuning engines...

Edited June 9, 2012 by Adam

[Adam]

I have wanted to ms for a while to take advantage of my Vg33 swap and breather mods/ca, also for the eventual turbo. Looking forward to this thread. Are you going to run coil on plug or distributor?? How much was your ms kit?is it ms3 ? How much?

 

I'm actually going to run individual Chevy truck coils (the type that a lot of LS1/2 guys use) so I can take advantage of full sequential spark.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Adam

[Nefarious]

1994sev6 you dont know what you are talking about. If you understood anything about engine management then you would know factory tunes are very conservative. If you run a stand alone engine management system you write your own tune to take advantage of your engine. Lean it out at idle and low load cruise conditions. Play with the timing fuel and spark curves to keep the vehicle in its most efficient state and to get the most power up top. It is a proven method IF you can write a tune. Also opens the door to turbo or supercharger options. Do some research before you roast someone that knows a lot more than you.

[Adam]

1994sev6 you dont know what you are talking about. If you understood anything about engine management then you would know factory tunes are very conservative. If you run a stand alone engine management system you write your own tune to take advantage of your engine. Lean it out at idle and low load cruise conditions. Play with the timing fuel and spark curves to keep the vehicle in its most efficient state and to get the most power up top. It is a proven method IF you can write a tune. Also opens the door to turbo or supercharger options. Do some research before you roast someone that knows a lot more than you.

 

Fortunately I don't actually have to be able to write a good tune for it, VE Analyzer will provide a great starting point and I can have it dyno tuned later.

[Nefarious]

what is this volumetric efficiency analyzer, is that a part of the ms3 setup? or a seperate tuning program?

[Adam]

what is this volumetric efficiency analyzer, is that a part of the ms3 setup? or a seperate tuning program?

 

It's a separate program. I just purchased it today along with TunerStudio MS. Actually just got done upgrading my firmware, I was still on 1.0.2, the newest is 1.0.5a, if that tells you how long it's been since I've plugged my MS3X in

 

VE Analyzer basically takes your datalogging and crunches the numbers to come up with the most efficient tuning setup it can. It's a great first step before you take the vehicle in to dyno tune as it's based on your actual driving habits.

[Adam]

 

My TunerStudio running and connected to my MS3X with all knobs on my JimStim maxed.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Adam

[Alkorahil]

Never seen or heard of someone megasquirting a pathy motor.

You should dyno the pathfinder before and after. I would be curious to see what the results are.

[Adam]

Never seen or heard of someone megasquirting a pathy motor.

You should dyno the pathfinder before and after. I would be curious to see what the results are.

 

There's one single person on this board who has done it (and he hasn't logged in in some time), otherwise yeah it's not very common. What I'll likely do is do a dyno session where I plug the stock ECU back in and see how it does with that then plug the MS3X back in so it's the same day and the same conditions. Really the only way to do it. I'll probably look into doing it next month, there's a place here I've been to that's decent and only charges $50 for 3 runs...

 

The other part of what I'm doing here will be finding other places that I can make power since that does seem to be kind of neglected on here. I don't really want to turbo my Pathfinder or any of that, I'd just like to get as much out of the VG30 as I can, and if that's still not enough for me then I'll do a VG33 swap.

 

Gonna be so anxious for the postman to show up all this week

Edited June 9, 2012 by Adam

[Adam]

My LS1/2 upgrade coils will be shipping Monday

[Adam]

I went ahead and pulled the DB connectors off the Megasquirt boards so I can directly wire them when the OEM ECU gets here.

 

 

The round black thing on the underside shot with the tube sticking off is the MAP sensor. I'll be relocating my ECU to the glove box while I'm at it which will make it easy for me to get the vacuum line for the MAP sensor plumbed... Not sure exactly where I'll pull the vacuum source, I may split it off the vacuum line for the fuel pressure regulator.

 

Need to pick up a better barometer as well so it can compensate for weather even better. A friend of mine talks about that here.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Adam

[MY1PATH]

A couple last things, the Megasquirt uses a MAP sensor instead of a MAF so I'll be able to get that restrictive piece of crap out of the system. The other question I have is if there are any throttlebodies I can fined that have a bit wider opening that will bolt up with little or no modification? If not I'll send mine into MaxBore and have it bored.

 

Looks like a big project, good luck. I might add that the Restrictive MAF is kind of pathfinder specific. The n60 MAF I am running with the M30 ECU is over 75mm on the inside and only has a tiny probe hanging down to take the air reading.

 

As far as the TB goes, the KA24 TB found in a Nissan Stanza is 60mm vs the stock 54mm for pathfinder. In stock form the 54mm TB yeilds no restriction as a a vacuum gauge reads 0 (zero) at WOT reline. 60mm will feel more responsive but the linkage and TPS are on opposite sides. You can run it upside down or you can install the pathfinder linkage and TPS on it. The bolt pattern is the same and both TB's are actually machined from the same casting. ones, just bored out a little bigger and the Spring post is pressed in at a different spot.

[Adam]

Looks like a big project, good luck. I might add that the Restrictive MAF is kind of pathfinder specific. The n60 MAF I am running with the M30 ECU is over 75mm on the inside and only has a tiny probe hanging down to take the air reading.

 

As far as the TB goes, the KA24 TB found in a Nissan Stanza is 60mm vs the stock 54mm for pathfinder. In stock form the 54mm TB yeilds no restriction as a a vacuum gauge reads 0 (zero) at WOT reline. 60mm will feel more responsive but the linkage and TPS are on opposite sides. You can run it upside down or you can install the pathfinder linkage and TPS on it. The bolt pattern is the same and both TB's are actually machined from the same casting. ones, just bored out a little bigger and the Spring post is pressed in at a different spot.

Thanks for the info!

 

Would the Stanza throttle body be one of the 60mm's? I'm assuming so since it's KA24... Looking at this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-91-92-NISSAN-STANZA-THROTTLE-BODY-W-CRUISE-CONT-/250959451960

 

Would obviously need cleaning up!

Edited June 10, 2012 by Adam

[AndyC]

N/A tunes are not as critical as FI tunes, but if you are going to change out the size of the MAF housing, it may be a good idea to at least chat with a local tuner. You said money is tight, but tuning on trial by error can end up rather spendy.

As far as getting a baseline dyno, absolutely. Not just for HP # but also your AF ratios, that will give a lot of insight to where gains may be made. I've been curious as to tuning options for this engine, so I will be following this thread with interest.

Do have a chat with a tuner, they are car nerds just like the rest of us and must do want to help!

[Adam]

N/A tunes are not as critical as FI tunes, but if you are going to change out the size of the MAF housing, it may be a good idea to at least chat with a local tuner. You said money is tight, but tuning on trial by error can end up rather spendy.

As far as getting a baseline dyno, absolutely. Not just for HP # but also your AF ratios, that will give a lot of insight to where gains may be made. I've been curious as to tuning options for this engine, so I will be following this thread with interest.

Do have a chat with a tuner, they are car nerds just like the rest of us and must do want to help!

 

You're not up to speed on what I'm doing or what VE Analyzer is. There is not going to be a MAF, at all. It will be MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor based, it's a much better system than a MAF. There also is no trial/error to this, VE Analyzer is proven technology. A/F ratios will be picked up by my wideband O2 sensor (meaning they will be very accurate) and datalogged. The dyno tuning will literally be just fine tuning once VE Analyzer goes through a few datalogging sessions. VE Analyzer tunes based on O2 sensor, knock sensor, and any other readings it picks up from the engine.

 

My friend, who I linked earlier (and lives in WA), has ONLY done VE Analyzer with his BMW (using the same engine I'm putting into my old Bimmer), and he took it to the dyno to see where he was at:

 

http://m54megasquirt...04/to-dyno.html

 

He's about 40hp to the wheels higher than stock (he has some mods) and about 10hp higher than his previous solution which was a modified BMW ECU with a performance chip.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Adam

[MY1PATH]

Thanks for the info!

 

Would the Stanza throttle body be one of the 60mm's? I'm assuming so since it's KA24... Looking at this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...T-/250959451960

 

Would obviously need cleaning up!

I would ask them to measure the manifold side of the bore just to be sure. Since the 54mm VG and 60mm KA TB's come from the same casting its very easy for a seller to get them mixed up when they sell lots of car parts from lots of vehicles.

 

At a glance the stanza, z31, 200sx se v6, and m30 TB's all look the same. Same sensor, same linkage, same, bolt pattern same OD, same Id at the opening.

The only difference is the bore and butterfly, So just by looking I could not tell you if that was it or if it was incorrectly listed...

[Kingman]

240sx KA24DE throttle body is also 60MM and bolts right on (minus boring the manifold) and the TPS isn't upside down either. Put one on mine a few weeks ago, made it pretty snappy.