Nefarious Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Hey everyone. Well I have pretty much come to the point where I need to decide to either beef the hell out of the IFS or just go solid axle and be done with it. I wheel my truck all the time, i am always driving it offroad and my center link is worn and the tie rods will be done soon. I am lifted 3" so ideally i should have upper control arms (although the balljoint angles dont look too crazy) but im sure they will be on their way out next. Well I am going back and forth on whether to beef up my IFS or go solid axle... I would need to spend probably 1000$ all said and done to get my IFS to where it can handle my 33x12.5s and regular trail abuse. So im thinking I will go with a solid axle... The thing is i DO NOT want to use leafs up front, honestly it just seems silly to have great handling(on/off road) and articulation of a 5 link in the rear and then have the old truck-like feeling front end. I drive my truck on the road, and I drive it at speeds. I do not want to be limited to the speed I can go on the highway, and I also want my ride to be NICE on the road, like it is now. Predictable and well damped, with good handling and speed on/off road. So basically I need a coil-sprung front axle with either radius arms or a 3-link(with panhard). I've been trying to do my research on this but I have some questions regarding my predicament.... I am assuming at this point beefing up the IFS is just a waste of time? Seems like it might cost more in the end if my tie rods and balljoints keep going... Plus i really want some real front flex. I'm SO SICK of my whole truck tipping sideways when all that needs to happen is a little bit of axle movement!!! My rear axle just shines with longer springs and 3" longer shocks... I really want to get the front doing what the rear does!! So... to end this post, what is the best axle choice for me? I have found some information but it's scattered and I'm having a hard time getting anything concrete....so is there any axle I can use that has the following..: dana 44 ideally for strength(would settle for 30 if it means i dont have to weld anything to the axle) Driver side drop Coil/link/radius arm mounts regular steel axle so I can weld link mounts to it (i have no idea how to weld cast...and I hear it's hard) 6 lug hubs(or a conversion possible) something close to my 4.63 rear end ratio for gears available (i would switch up to 4.9 if i really had to but I have tons of power to push my 33s with my vg33e swap and I like my low revs on the highway at speeds so I would like to stay 4.63 if possible) and not something that is crazy wide! I would like to stay as close to stock width as possible... the wagoneer axle sounds like it would be okay but I read I have to cut and turn c's? and isnt it leaf sprung? is it hard to weld to to convert to links? are there any other options?? thanks!! Edited March 5, 2012 by Nefarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heloflyboy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You could probably find a thread here somewhere on this. Here are some options the dana 44 does not have a 4.63 ratio. The closest you could get is a 4.55 not close enough. Toyota used to have 4.63 in 1st gen 4x4 BUT extremely hard to find . 4.90 is your best option in rear because almost everyone makes a 4.88 and you will have no trouble with those. Your best bet is find some used 4.90 from xterra in wreaking yard. As far as axles go, that is up to you and how much money you want to spend. I went with a 1985 toyota 4 runner axle.Mainly because I had it sitting in garage so I spent very little money on my SAS. It was quite a bit of work because that is a pass. side drop that I had to flip to drivers side. The dana 44 is what most people use.Steve with RuggedRocks.com has a new diamond axle that uses a nissan 3rd member(HUGE advantage). I do not remember what the total cost is or what steering knuckles he uses but if you call or email him he will let you know.He was thinking of making a front link set up awhile back. I am not sure where he currently stands on that project,ask see what he says. Trailgear.com has a nice axle called Rock Assault (for tacoma's). Those are a few options I am sure there are more,but these are what I had found. On link set ups again there are endless options www.ruffstuffspecialties.com is a company I have used quite a bit with a couple different builds. They have high quality parts and sell complete link set ups. They ship out same day to next day which is a big plus.I have dealt with a few other fab companies and have been VERY disappointed when I have not recieved what I ordered after 10 days. After a call to manager I found out they were back ordered for min.3-4 weeks. Check this out NissanNut.com they have alot of info. I hope that helps . Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hey thanks yeah i read nissan nuts website and there is a lot of good info there but he uses a dana 44 from a wagoneer but does anyone know if the dana 44 from a waggy can be welded to?? i heard the knuckles are cast and hard to weld to, ive never welded to cast.... i am kind of looking for a budget build. i am going to fab most of it myself like nissannut did, so junkyard axles are where i want to be. i have the tools to cut the arms and thread the ends for heims and johnny joints.. i have never done a solid axle but have a lot of welding experience and random fab work. worked in a fab shop for a year. is it possible for me to weld link mounts to the waggy axle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 thanks for info on the gears by the way . ill swap in xterra 4.9s when i do the limited slip and disc brakes in back, 4.88 up front sounds perfect. oh well guess the truck will have even more power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 i guess there is no magic junk yard axle that comes from the factory with: - driver side drop - coil buckets - 3 link or radius arm setup - 59-60 WMS to match the pathy 59 WMS (6 bolt would be nice but not necessary...) ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) this is a jeep rubicon front axle. has links, coils, and driver side drop.... seems like it would be perfect, no? can anyone see a problem in using this setup??? i could just use some adapters to run my 6x5.5 rims.... please if anyone knows of a reason this will make things difficult speak up? otherwise im going searching for a rubi axle! the only thing i read that threw me off is that it doesn't have locking hubs? huh? do they mean it doesnt have UNlocking hubs? as in the drive train is always spinning? isnt that kind of stupid ? lol Edited March 5, 2012 by Nefarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowser Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Take a look over at Ronin. Ryan Gee there, who is AK9849cy here, has done more Solid axle swaps then anyone else in the biz I think, even more then Barry,(NissanNut) or The King even. I think that is... He's done them in a SLEW of different Nissans. Hardbody's, Pathy's, Xterra's. He's been doing quality stuff. Read all you can on there pertaining to it. I think they even have a Diff Thread about how to find what you want in a axle at the wreckers. I'd link it, but don't have time to be scouring for ya man. So many forums, so many threads. This one was an older one so search, search and search some more. It's been discussed a lot there I can tell ya that. There's a specific year range that is best from what I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Oh awesome!! Perfect man thanks a lot for the link I never even knew about that site. Let the reading commence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I assume the Rubicon is a full-time 4WD, so it's not designed to be disengaged. If the width was right, it probably could work (if a close gearset's available), but you'd always be turning the driveshaft, even if the transfer case was disengaged, like a stock R50. Here's a stupid idea... Narrowing axles is fairly common, right? How much more trouble would it be to weld on different ends? Why not take a jy Pathy rear end, cut it down, and weld ends on from pretty much any front axle? You'd have to do a little work on the shafts, but if the donor front axle was wider, you'd have room to cut and re-spline for the 233b. Sounds like a lot of work, but the ratio would be perfect. Just throwing it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Well the pathy rear end has a central located diff... I need a diff with driver side drop of the front drive shaft.... although I would love a h233b up front.... like a Nissan patrol.... build a patrolfinder lol... are they driver drop?? I should try and find a wrecked patrol and see if I could make that work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Nevermind... looks like patrols are passenger drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Hey brother... Beefing up the IFS is a good idea if you intend to keep it that way. I did it to mine, and it has yet to fail me. However I am now going head long into swapping in a solid front axle... 1. Dana 44 from a wagoneer is leaf sprung, but easily changed. You certainly CAN weld brackets to the tubes on that axle... If you are going with a triangulated four link or a radius arm setup then there is no real need to weld anything to the cast "pumpkin." If you decided you were going to do a three link or had to weld something to the chunk, installing a gusset over the top of the chunk is pie, especially if you have any fabbing experience, as you have already mentioned you do... 2. Gears: IF YOU CAN FIND 4.9 gears from an 02-04 Xterra OR Frontier that is the ideal way to go for the H233B. Then running a 4.88 in the Dana 44 will be well within the 5% ratio. However if you are like me and simply cannot find a JY that has what you need, you CAN run a 4.56 ratio in the Dana 44 and it is STILL within the 5% ratio required... All of this per the technical guru's at Randy's Ring and Pinion, as well as technical support from Yukon Gear. Truth is that if you were to pull your third member and count the teeth, it may or may not be 4.62, it may be 4.59 or as much as 4.68 or more. In my experience of building and modding 4WD's it is not uncommon to see mix matched but CLOSE gear ratio's from axle to axle. For example I had a 76 GMC (12 bolt corporate rear/Dana 44 front) that had ratio tags bolted to the axle that clearly stated 4.10, however upon pulling the gears one was 4.09 the other was 4.11. Just food for thought. Here is the gear ratio formula: 1 point difference in ratio is equal to 1%. To find the percentage difference in ratios it is necessary to divide, not subtract. In order to find the difference divide one ratio by the other and look at the numbers to the right of the decimal point and how far they make the answer different from 1.00. for example 3.54 ÷ 3.50 = 1.01 or 1%, not 4% different. And likewise 4.11 ÷ 4.09 = 1.005 or only a 1/2% difference. So 4.62 ÷ 4.56 = 1.013157% Well within the percentage according to the "pro's" I am going to run a 4.56 in my 44 for the time being and when I am able to find a 4.9 set of gears I will replace them, OR swap in full width axles... whichever comes first. 3. Exhaust and cross member will have to be re worked. 4. Last but should probably be first.... Links. What I am referring to is the connection point between the vehicle and your new axle... Heim joints, Johnny joints, or the radius arm style... Some have done (me included) the Tractor Supply route, using tractor links... Why did I bring this up? Okay first off, the joint is going to be taking the majority of the beating... the forces applied will take their toll on the joints primarily as you drive... hard to explain but just as well... Joint selection is key to a quality on and off road ride. In the past (91 S10 Blazer SAS) the TSC route was used and it was a scary thing to drive that rig over 50mph. There was simply too much slop, and the course threads did not offer very much in adjustment. On a recent build, (93 Forerunner SAS) utilized heim joints and that truck is VERY stable at 65 mph and up. No shimmy, no wobble... Excellent. And wear... the better the joint the longer it will last... I feel like I am rambling. Best of luck to you bro! Edited March 6, 2012 by tmoore4512 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heloflyboy Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Tmoore is right . I used johnny joints i like them I have no wobble and have driven with cruise control on at 80mph.Very stable. Think about sway bars also,it will need it to drive at speed on freeway. Trust me tried it. If this is something that you will drive alot you might think about going with joints on axle side only. It will save you some money and make it a little better on hwy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismopathy93 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 as far as gear ratio goes the 4.63 and 4.56 works great I run them in my hardbody I run narrowed ford hp axles to help out the driveline angles and seem to be easier to find in the northwest then the waggy driver drop axle but I also run all leaf setups no links for this guy I love my leaf springs easy and tough as hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Ok this is seriously awesome information guys. I had the basics but these specifics are just what I needed. where I live is very spread out from town to town by long highway stretches (Vancouver island). So I'm either on the hwy or on the trails. I don't do much city driving so its very important for stable highway driving at 70-80 mph. Using only joints on axle side sounds the best and rubber or poly Bushings on frame side I'm assuming. Wear life and maybe just a bit of road damping would be nice, lol. Ok ya now I got it for the waggy axle... truss idea would be a breeze. Thanks tmoore for all the detailed info!!! You really helped me out a lot. That is great news on the gear option too... seems 4.56 is definitely close enough to 4.63 to work...5% is the limit hey wow. That's substantial.! Well now the choice is to be made... I am going to get my electronics technician certifications so ill be in school for a year to get my ticket.. will have to chose between installing beefy ifs now (centerlink is worn and don't want to just wear out another oem one) which I could do quickly to keep driving my path... or just park the pathy and put my z32 on the road to take the time to sas.....z32 needs a bit of work too to get inspected .(out of province) ... Mhmmmm Edited March 6, 2012 by Nefarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Less stress to get the Z going, probably. Or you could put a Hardbody CL in the Pathfinder, then get the Z together, then drive the Z while you work on the Pathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismopathy93 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 put the z32 in the pathy with the sas oh ya bad ass!!!! :friday: :friday: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If you have another vehicle to drive while you work on the Pathfinder then more power to you! I wish I had that luxury for sure. When I dive in and do my swap, we will be down to the wife's car for the duration. Not a big deal really, but it will be difficult with 3 kids and 3 jobs between her and I! Best of luck to you and your build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) yeah the z just needs a windshield and probably a power transistor unit, so it idles high and runs super rich. it does run smoothly and strong though. and no way am I pulling my z32 apart! I just spent over 100 hours of works restoring the front end of it from a collision replacing the entire front of the unibody structure and then making it all look factory again! lol... plus it's a "slicktop" hardtop model of z32 which are really rare. and my pathy has a vg33e swap intake/headers/exhaust/efans etc so it hauls pretty good as it is. the PTU is only about 120 bucks so thats not too bad but im shopping around for a cheap windshield replacement... doesn't seem to be too cheap thus far but i think i may have found someone who can come to my place to do it. cant pass inspection with bad glass! yeah 2wd center link... hmmm i wanted to do that but I heard nothing back on how well it works or anyone who has done it the proper way by actually tapping out the adjusting sleeves larger to use pathy outer tie rods... maybe ill just do that so i can spend the little bit of time it will take to the get the z32 on the road... then sas the pathy once it's done. then i will only be out the price of a 2wd center link and inner tie rods... i wonder where the cheapest 2wd inners and center link i can find are... lol Edited March 7, 2012 by Nefarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) thats pretty cheap. lol although i dont need the idler or outers... heres a set... full set or this one... just center link Edited March 7, 2012 by Nefarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amfq120 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Has anyone run shackles in the front hanger in the rear for leaf's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Well the pathy rear end has a central located diff... I need a diff with driver side drop of the front drive shaft.... although I would love a h233b up front.... like a Nissan patrol.... build a patrolfinder lol... are they driver drop?? I should try and find a wrecked patrol and see if I could make that work. I was thinking you'd narrow the rear end on one side, hook a small bit of the front axle to that side, then cut the other side long/hook a long front section to it, that way you could put the diff wherever you wanted it. I suspect I'm barking mad, and the taper of the tube wouldn't match up properly... And if you want cheap... junkyard? No reason to go with a brand new CL for a temporary application, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 yeah i suppose i could try and get a junkyard center link/inners off without mangling them too bad. i dunno i have a hard time getting them off without destroying the boots!!! any tricks? lol pickle fork is aggressive and destroys boots.... maybe ill try picking up oen of those balljoint poppers and see if it works a little more delicately...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 IIRC boots can be replaced! On the CL that I am not sure of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 yeah i suppose i could try and get a junkyard center link/inners off without mangling them too bad. i dunno i have a hard time getting them off without destroying the boots!!! any tricks? lol pickle fork is aggressive and destroys boots.... maybe ill try picking up oen of those balljoint poppers and see if it works a little more delicately...lol I never use the fork to get any joints apart. Just shock it with a BFH. Hit on the part that the tapered stud is in. After a few good hits it will fall out. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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