94 pathfinder project (where to start)

[MCrowe]

Hi all, so glad I found this forum. Been searching for ages to find info on my pathfinders and a little help on doing them up but haven't been able to get all the random bits of info sorted out in my head.

 

Ok, first question, I have a 2 door 87 pathfinder with a weak but bullet proof 2.4l 4 cylinder engine. I got sick of it being under powered so I just bought a 94 4 door with a 3.0L? V6. It's got heaps more go, althoug so far I've only been around the block as I only got it yesterday and it unregistered. The thing that worries me is, the 2 door look awesome. So sporty, and kinda retro with the little triangle back window and body wheel flares. The new pathy looks a bit plain. Do other agree with me? Or am I just being sentimental cos I've owned it so long? That said I don't think there's anything I can do about it except maybe swap the engine over, or the shell? Is that possible?

 

Ok, probably more importantly, I wanna do this pathy up real good. Say 33" tires, 3" suspension lift, maybe 1" body lift if necessary, front and rear lockers, probably some sort of gear reduction to handle the bigger tyres? Diff change?

 

So,

1. What upper control arms do I buy for the front IFS?

2. Can I lift the front 3" over stock ride height? If I replace the torsion bar with heavier duty ones and wind it up 3" over original, will it still clear the bump stops or do I need to replace them with lower profile ones? Can that even be done? This is the most important part of my myriad of questions and all relates to How do I lift the IFS 3"???

3. Do I replace the rear springs with longer ones, or stiffer ones? Or longer stiffer ones? And any suggestions on where to get them?

4. If you put ARB air lockers in, do the replace the insides of the diff (crown and pinion)? I would like to reduce the gear ratio at the diff. That should mean it drive normally (power wise) on bigger tyres without stressing the drive train any more. Can this be done?

 

Any way, sorry for the massive long post. I'm just trying to find all the info I can as I'm really looking forward to making this a serious project car. Thanks heap guys.

Edited December 18, 2011 by MCrowe

[unccpathfinder]

Search my posts regarding the vg30i swap...I swapped it with my vg30e...u gotta do a full swap with ecu wiring and get the speedometer gage swapped to the electronic version for the 94 engine to work correctly

 

Next I wouldn't waste my time with ifs lifts if u r going to wheel it hard...SAS it...if u don't SAS then u better get every upgrade for steering that u can and carry lots of TREs as trail spares...next 33s will need at least a 3" BL or a lot of body trimming

 

No new ring and pinion for the arb...just née carrier...IMO the arb is kinda pointless with ifs unless u just put it in 4lo and don't lock the front hubs...just speaking from experience...if u want to regearit should work with the arb but anything under 33s doesn't really need rerearing IMO...with the exception of building a doubler or getting Crawler gears

[MCrowe]

Mmm, SAS really? That sounds like a fair bit of work. What needs to go, what needs replacing? Can you basically bolt bits in from other car (trucks) or is there a lot of custom work involved?

 

Im thinking ill probably just lift the IFS for now. Do you know if 3" is possible? I've read about others doing lifts and replacing the UCA, and bracing the idler arm. But im not sure if they got 3" lift from that, and if that is all that needs doing.

 

Regards, the 33" tires, you suggest a 3" BL, If I put a 3" SL in will I still need some body lift as well? and will I need as much as 3" BL?

 

WHat do you mean by not locking the front hubs? why would you put air lockers in and not lock them? You mean so you dont spin the centre diff? Surely, based on the fact the front wheel lift of the ground so easy it would help having the air locker to make sure the front was still doing some pulling.

 

And as for gearing it down a bit, I dont understand what your saying about that. Can it be done?

 

Ill prob keep the 4 door with the V6 in it. Dont think its worth trying to swap the engine just because im being sentimental about my old Pathy..

[Slartibartfast]

My question would be, which is in better shape? The frames on these are notorious for rusting out above the rear axle. Put it on a jack stand, pull the wheel off, and beat on the side of the frame. If it's clean and solid, you're a lucky SOB. If not, you're like the rest of us, and you're looking at either welding a patch or scrapping it. Also check under the rear seats, they like rusting through there. If one's in significantly better shape than the other, build that one up, and use the other for parts.

 

I like the look of two-doors better, but 4-doors are easier to transport people in. If your heart's set on one, might as well go for it. Otherwise, unless the 87's in much better shape, I'd build up the 94.

 

Body lifts, from what I've read, are about compensating for the IFS and making the tires clear the arches. I guess they're not really needed with a solid axle swap. So, if you want to make a proper trail rig, don't bother with body lifts, just SAS and go. Which way to go really depends on what you plan to do with it. If you want to jack it up and drive over rock piles, SAS will add a whole lot of flex and eliminate the steering and alignment issues of IFS. If it's a daily driver that you sometimes take out on the trail, SAS is overkill.

 

SAS usually involves pulling an axle from a wrecked Jeep, fabricating mounts for the suspension links, and bolting it up. It's not bolt-on, but I think someone on here's made (or is making) a kit. It would still require welding.

 

Keep in mind however that my truck's pretty much stock, so I don't know any of this firsthand.

[unccpathfinder]

General rule with these trucks is 3"so+3"bl= 33" tires...my 87 that gets wheeled hard has 3" calmini sl and a 3" pa lift...I cut fenders and still get rubbing...my gfs truck had 33s with cranked tbars when we bought it...the front fenders were basically cut off and they had put spring spaces in the rear(extremely dangerous...we have put the susp back to stock with a mild crank up front and I have cut the fenders for in town driving...off road driving would cause major issues with tires and body rub

 

Where I was going with the arb is I installed mine thinking it would be an advantage...well it would be if my steering components weren't stock...so the locker is helpful for me when I'm in 2 lo and my manual hubs allow me to not put power to the wheels but rather the CVS spin but don't turn the wheels...I'm more capable in 2 lo locked right now than 4 lo locked but about the same either way in 4 lo unlocked due to my steering components...I wish I would have SASd from day 1 and would have saved a significant amount of $ in the end...yes its a lot of custom work but there's tons if info on here and steevo at ruggedrocksoffroad is putting together SAS parts to make it a little easier

 

I also know my truck and got used to picking lines that didn't require a locker...hell at moab I overrode my spotter BC he almost made me roll my truck and then brought open/open trucks up an obstacle that everyone thought you needed lockers for...its just a matter of driver/spotter skills and knowing what your rig can and can't do and that all comes with experience

 

I can't SAS right now but I'm looking at building a new center link,beefed up idler arm and Pittman arm then upgrading the TREs to 1 ton pickups to help stop breaking things

 

 

I'm sentimental about my 87...drove my 95 2500 miles wheeled it 2 weekends in a row then pulled it into the garage and stripped it and up fitted my 87...just different strokes for different folks

[nunya]

The thing that worries me is, the 2 door look awesome. So sporty, and kinda retro with the little triangle back window and body wheel flares. The new pathy looks a bit plain. Do other agree with me? Or am I just being sentimental cos I've owned it so long?

to each their own though I'm personally partial to my 2 door (and the 2 door folks will generally all back up their choice as well) but when was looking for a truck for my wife honestly wanted a 4 door wd21 (won't get involved here as to what she ended up with)

 

as for 33s, 3+3=33 as stated is the 'general' rule but there are plently of exceptions. Theres people who run and wheel on 33s with stock height trucks (I may be lifted and not on as big of a tire but like me a nice big tire/low COG truck )so depending on how much you like your tin, cut and mount some 33s how it sits!

[silverton]

Yes, three inches of lift is possible with the IFS. you don't NEED to replace the bump stops, but getting lower profile ones would be best. you'll be going through CV's like crazy since they'll be at a super crazy angle. I believe SuperLift UCA's are the way to go. Or Rancho if you can find a pair, they are out of production but can still be found occasionally.

 

You can run 33x10.50's without a body lift, if you decide to go with 33x12.50's. you'll need a 2 or 3" body lift. also, depending on what gears you have in your truck now, it should specify on your underhood data plate. my truck has an HG46, with 33's I need to get a HG49 to return to "stock" gearing.

 

 

 

 

Seriously, what is up with everyone on this forum talking OP's out of what they want to do instead of just offering up the knowledge they know about what the OP wants to do? At least just offer up the pro's and con's of what they want, instead of just saying "do this instead", then we'll all end up having the same truck.

[unccpathfinder]

I didn't talk him out of anything...just stating that in the last year I've been thru about $300 of TREs, 300$ of centerlinks, $200 compression rod bushings, $100 idler arm, 200$ of upper bjs on top of the $900 price for a calmini lift, granted u can crank and cut jgc coils but have plenty of trail spares...in moab i went thru 4 tres in less than 50'...so if u r trying to build a trail capable rig then ifs lifts r not the way to go...u can do a SAS and be highway/DD friendly...I've got a $1000 locker sitting in my rear end that I can't use to actually assist me with my ifs once I was regear or stack the case and SAS my truck will be damn near unstoppable...went to gone saw leafed and coiled trucks handle damn near everything that was thrown at them...saw and broke a lot of ifs parts...So with $2k in parts that i spent I could have SASd my truck did a 4 link and not even need the locker although its always a nice insurance policy...with a SAS and good links u can keep all 4 wheels on the ground and not even need the locker...and ive never killed a Cv

 

But then again I've had my truck for 12 years and its been on the trail since I've owned it to certain extents...I followed with in my opinion and if u talk to anyone else who wants to build a capable Nissan they aren't ifs...I remember now y I never post here anymore

 

 

 

Black 95 is 3" home build susp lift cut to clear...my 87 with 3+3 and trimming is flexed on it...this is right before we swapped the sl for the bl

 

[silverton]

I didn't talk him out of anything...just stating that in the last year I've been thru about $300 of TREs, 300$ of centerlinks, $200 compression rod bushings, $100 idler arm, 200$ of upper bjs on top of the $900 price for a calmini lift, granted u can crank and cut jgc coils but have plenty of trail spares...in moab i went thru 4 tres in less than 50'...so if u r trying to build a trail capable rig then ifs lifts r not the way to go...u can do a SAS and be highway/DD friendly...I've got a $1000 locker sitting in my rear end that I can't use to actually assist me with my ifs once I was regear or stack the case and SAS my truck will be damn near unstoppable...went to gone saw leafed and coiled trucks handle damn near everything that was thrown at them...saw and broke a lot of ifs parts...So with $2k in parts that i spent I could have SASd my truck did a 4 link and not even need the locker although its always a nice insurance policy...with a SAS and good links u can keep all 4 wheels on the ground and not even need the locker...and ive never killed a Cv

 

But then again I've had my truck for 12 years and its been on the trail since I've owned it to certain extents...I followed with in my opinion and if u talk to anyone else who wants to build a capable Nissan they aren't ifs...I remember now y I never post here anymore

 

 

 

Black 95 is 3" home build susp lift cut to clear...my 87 with 3+3 and trimming is flexed on it...this is right before we swapped the sl for the bl

 

 

Holy jeepers! Either your trails are ridiculous, or you're super hard on your truck. my two trucks have probably spent more time off the road, than on it in the last two years, and I've had to replace one center link, and ask anyone that went to MrJim Run 2. I'm HARD on my trucks.

 

But then again, build the rig for the trail! I guess you NEED to do an SAS. in the PacNW, you need a low COG and narrow wheel base and track width, otherwise you're going to die because you fell off the mountain.

Edited December 19, 2011 by silverton

[MCrowe]

Ok ok, so, I'm probably not going to do a SAS at the moment. At least I don't think I am. Damn, I keep second guessing my self. I was thinking maybe the Calmini 3" complete lift lit, but by the sounds of it I might be better just buying all the parts separate. So, as a start point, I need:

Upper control arm. Rough country??

Shocks all round

Tougher torsion bars (maybe) I think someone has already put them on this car. Only think that because there orange. Any one know who sells orange Torsion bars?

And rear springs.

And maybe low profile bump stops.

Is that all? And any recommendations for places to purchase them from?

 

I really love the 2 door but I think it's just making more work for my self for no good reason, trying to swap engines over. That's good advice about the rust though. I'll have a look over my new '94 tomorrow for any cancer.

 

Also im kind of new to this so, I understand UCA, and SAS and BL but a little stuck on TREs. Some about tie rods??? And why do they brake so often after a lift?

 

Oh, and that said, will the front actually go up 3" and still have clearance between the UCA and bump stop?

 

Damn, I really do keep second guessing my self. This is on of the few times I'll have two cars around, so I could work on my new pathy, and I work in a steel/ aluminum workshop so I have all the equipment. Maybe I could do a SAS. But surely the legal issues are pretty hard to get round. I guess we just don't mention them. Lol.

[MCrowe]

I know im being confusing. Sorry, I just want a reasonably capable 4wd, I don't want it braking down all the time but I want to be able to beat all those damn cruisers and patrols.

 

A SAS sound like it might be quite difficult but I don't wanna do a 3" IFS lift if its Gunna brake down on me all the time. I was thinking dual lockers to give me a slight edge where the IFS fails me. Just to stop with the procrastinating, I'll stick with the 4 door, V6.

 

Now, IFS lift or SAS??

[JamesRich]

Stick with 31" tires, no body lift and a moderate suspension lift and you will have a capable trail rig without troubles. You still will need a better center link for your steering though if you lift it. At stock hight the tie rods and center link are in a straight line. When you lift it the tie rods are now angled down from the center link and pull up and down on it.

James

[unccpathfinder]

For a decenly capable off road pathy on a small budget...

 

Long travel shocks (Rancho is what I have)

3"bl (150$us)

32x10.50r15 tires

Disconnected/removed sway bar

Maybe some light fender trimming

 

And u will be able to do a lot with keeping the ifs together

 

Bl keeps the CC lower BC your only lifting the body and passengers a sl lifts all of the major CC increasing components like engine transfer frame and body so the argument of Not doing a bl BC of Cg is bogus BC the 3" sl will always move the cg higher than a bl...disconnecting sway bars will change your handling but I've driven over 15k miles without any sway bars a 3"sl and 3" bl on 33s plus lots of wheeling miles and haven't put it onthe lid yet...

 

With the 3" sl u will also need to think about a panhard drop brkt

[MCrowe]

Sooo, Would you recommend the Calmini upgraded steering kit? and the Calmini 3" suspension lift kit?

That would be expensive...

 

Or

 

-Superlifters UCA.

-Rancho Shockes. UNCCPATHFINDER - What model are the long travel shocks?

-Springs. JGC <- is that Jeep Grand Cheroke? what year? Any in particular?

-32 x 10.5 tires

 

 

What steering parts do I need? For upgrades...

 

People have listed quite a few parts.

-panhard drop bracket

-centre link

-idler arm brace

-TREs? Tie Rod ends??? No one told me what TRE's are.

Edited December 19, 2011 by MCrowe

[unccpathfinder]

The calmini steering kit is supposed to be alright but very expensive...like I mentioned up top if it were me personally id do stock susp height (maybe a alight tbars crank) with a 3"bl and 32" tires. The more u keep the stock geometry for ifs the least risk u have of tearing things up... do 32s get some armor (skids/sliders) and an arb rear and/or front locker and call it good...I would stay away from ifs lifts

 

 

 

Yes the parts u listed would be good to invest in with an ifs lift...u may also want to beef up the Pittman arm..if u don't believe me on ifs parts PM Mr Reverse on 4x4parts.com BC he has an most bullet proof front end now for ifs but I think at moab he still bent a tre (tie rod end)

[unccpathfinder]

And some pics for ref for some of my bent/broken tres

 

 

[Precise1]

My question would be, which is in better shape? The frames on these are notorious for rusting out above the rear axle. Put it on a jack stand, pull the wheel off, and beat on the side of the frame. If it's clean and solid, you're a lucky SOB. If not, you're like the rest of us, and you're looking at either welding a patch or scrapping it. Also check under the rear seats, they like rusting through there.

LOL You make it sound as if every Pathy is rusted in 1/2. The ones that rust are from salt states or wheeled and never cleaned. There are rust free Pathys swarming the West Coast...

 

Upper control arm. Rough country??

Shocks all round

Tougher torsion bars (maybe) I think someone has already put them on this car. Only think that because there orange. Any one know who sells orange Torsion bars?

And rear springs.

And maybe low profile bump stops.

Is that all? And any recommendations for places to purchase them from?

 

 

Also im kind of new to this so, I understand UCA, and SAS and BL but a little stuck on TREs. Some about tie rods??? And why do they brake so often after a lift?

 

Oh, and that said, will the front actually go up 3" and still have clearance between the UCA and bump stop?

 

Damn, I really do keep second guessing my self. This is on of the few times I'll have two cars around, so I could work on my new pathy, and I work in a steel/ aluminum workshop so I have all the equipment. Maybe I could do a SAS. But surely the legal issues are pretty hard to get round. I guess we just don't mention them. Lol.

Most of this is well documented, but I'll do a break down. This will get you a fairly capable set up.

1)Superlift UCAs, Rough Country (black painted Superlifts) have been discontinued and might be hard to find.

2)Longer stocks in the rear, the front don't change unless they are worn out.

3)Rear sway bar disconnect (it's nice to have on the road)

4)Rear lift springs (several types and sources available from junk yards to AC, Calmini and even Jeep springs from the local store)

5)Crank up the stock torsion bars until the bump stops have about 1/2" (13mm clearance). About 2-2.5" of lift?

 

The following is optional but recommended because they are cool:

1) Grassroots4x4.com center link

2) Skid plates

3) Rear locker

4) Bumpers

5) Sliders

 

Unless I missed it, what type of wheeling do you plan on as almost no one does it all and it's hard to set up a rig for everything.

 

I know im being confusing. Sorry, I just want a reasonably capable 4wd, I don't want it braking down all the time but I want to be able to beat all those damn cruisers and patrols.

 

A SAS sound like it might be quite difficult but I don't wanna do a 3" IFS lift if its Gunna brake down on me all the time. I was thinking dual lockers to give me a slight edge where the IFS fails me. Just to stop with the procrastinating, I'll stick with the 4 door, V6.

 

Now, IFS lift or SAS??

IFS, you don't seem SAS ready and you need to answer the question above.

 

UNCCP breaks a lot of parts, but that is because he looks for trails that are a challenge to him and his truck.

http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=31862&view=findpost&p=601292

 

Pathys are good, but not rock crawlers so if that is what you are doing, you have a lot of work and $ ahead of you...

 

Stick with 31" tires, no body lift and a moderate suspension lift and you will have a capable trail rig without troubles. You still will need a better center link for your steering though if you lift it. At stock hight the tie rods and center link are in a straight line. When you lift it the tie rods are now angled down from the center link and pull up and down on it.

James

 

 

 

B

[KovemaN]

Add the Calmini HD steering kit and you can crawl on 33's all day. I have beat the stink out of mine and it's still daily driver capable. Longer rear shocks, no rear sway-bar, longer rear coils and a locker will take a WD21 anywhere you care to go. Beyond that I would recommend a SAS.

[MCrowe]

Not entirely sure what sort of 4wding I'll be doing. I go out with lots of different ppl and they all have different ideas as to what we are doing. It ranges from real steap muddy hills I can't get up with my current pathy, to river crossings that flood my current pathy, to sand driving that my current pathy hasn't got enough power for, to snow driving in hills which actually isn't too bad...

 

I like to actually go somewhere when I go on trips. So normally like 3 day trips through the mountains. You kind of get a bit of everything thrown in so im not really sure what the answer is. Basically anything I can get up or over or through. The more capable the car the harder I'll push it until I get stuck, or someone else does. I'm hopeing for someone else..

 

So yeah, I'll do the rough country UCAs. And can find all the shocks springs and such.

 

I'll get the grassroots4x4 centre link, and prob make an idler arm brace. Are there stronger TREs u can get? That should be simple shouldn't it? To get larger diameter steel bar TREs?

 

I'm going to make the skid plates and sliders, and trim and fix the current bull bar. It's got a cow pusher. (hangs real low to the ground)

 

I might do a 1" or 2" body lift if it's not too hard. And yeah, rear ARB locker.

And maybe a bull bar mounted winch even though everyone tells me a real 4wd driver wouldn't have an electric mounted winch. I'm meant to have a Turfa...

 

Just a though. Is there any reason you can't do a 2" lift by cranking the torsion bars and another 2" by lowering the front diff? Is there anyone that offers a kit for that? That way you don't have extreme angles on the CVs and you get 4"'under the car. Can you lower the steering components as well? Or would you be even more likely to break steering parts?

[sewebster]

Just a though. Is there any reason you can't do a 2" lift by cranking the torsion bars and another 2" by lowering the front diff? Is there anyone that offers a kit for that? That way you don't have extreme angles on the CVs and you get 4"'under the car. Can you lower the steering components as well? Or would you be even more likely to break steering parts?

 

You can only really lower the front diff less than an inch...

[unccpathfinder]

Trail master lift will drop the front axle 3" as well as the torsion bars decreasing ure ground clearance...see slicks truck

No bolt on tre upgrades and where you upgrade that its no longer the weakest link and u start bending idler arms, Pittman arms etc and so on

[MCrowe]

Mmm. I can see your point, having a weakest link that's not too hard to fix, but surely if they are as easy to bend and break as ppl seem to suggest, it could do with a little upgrading.?

 

Just for the record, what causes them to bend and break? Is t rocks and such forcing the wheels in a direction they don't want to go, or hitting them on things, or just shock loads transmitted through the wheels/ shocks.

 

That and, does and one know the best place to get the UCAs in australia? Is there an Australian distributer? Cheers all.

[unccpathfinder]

A lot of mine came from shock loads when I came over a rock with a lil too much skinny pedal or a wheel off the ground and gaining traction then turning in...the angles with the cranked bars make the geometry amplify any load into the suspension basic rule of thumb is keep the uca as parallel to the ground as possible...

 

The Uca doesn't really add any help other than upper ball joint angles so u could potentially get the spaces and make those work but I'm not 100% on that

[MCrowe]

Thanks heaps for all your help guys. I'm off for a while. At the airport now, going to Sumatra for three weeks. Be ready for some 4wding action when I get back. Cheers.

[MCrowe]

Ok, So im back, and still alive. Just. 2 weeks in hospital because apparently my gall bladder packed it in?? weird.

 

Any who, I need UCA. Does any one know where I can order them from? IM in Australia, so id prefer an Australia Distributor. They charge a lot more, but I save on shipping and get them much quicker. Does anyone know any where in Oz I can get UCAs from? I want to order them now!!

 

That and a Snorkel. I cant even find a snorkel that I could garantee was the right one. And the one I can find doesn't look right, its got the intake on the side of the snorkel, and it looks really narrow..

 

I want to spend money but cant find where to spend it