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Custom Adjustable UCA's?


shasdakota
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Hey guys,

i want to do a suspension lift soon, i just need to collect the parts, and i have a question for you guys.

i came across someone who is making these adjustable UCA's for the Hardbody/Frontier, and i'm just wondering if you guys think i'll be able to fit them on my 1991 WD21? I know the super Lift and Rough Country UCA's made for the HB will fit on the WD21 Pathy.

And, since i dont have any experience fabricating my own suspension components, i'm wondering if you guys can have a look at these pics and tell me if you see anything wrong or possible flaw with these UCA's.

here's the pic's:

 

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Do you guys think their worth $300 bones?

Or should i go with something already prooven like the SuperLift UCA's?

I dont like how the AC uca's dont correct ball joint angle, and i dont want to buy new Calmini uca's (i would buy used calmini uca's though). and i dont beleive i have any other options.

these custom uca's are supposed to be completely adjustable for caster/camber, and i like that about them.

so lets hear it, what do ya guys think??

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Good idea and they look well made but I don't see any angle to the ball joint plate which is needed. What/who is the source of these, perhaps you can have some properly angled ends made for the pathfinder application.

 

B

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yes, i was wondering about ball joint angle, i just didnt know how to tell. i already wrote the guy to ask about this. its someone over at Infamous Nissan making these. i never heard of that forum, i just found these by googling for WD21 UCA's. so you can tell just buy looking at the plate the ball joint is to sit on that the angle isnt good? whats the proper angle for a 3" lift? i guess that plate looks flat, no angle. i would actually like to do a 2" lift, but i dont know if i can get 2" lift coils, unless i cut down my own JGC coils...

What about these? anyone familair with FabTech? someone's selling some Fabtech UCA's for the HB. so will the HB UCA's fit my truck? (i beleive so).

anyone know anything about these?

IMAG0177.jpg

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Those adjustable ones definatly look to be lacking any angle correction, almost look like there is no angle at all in most of the pics to me :scratchhead:

 

As stated too, HB UCAs are what most of the people run on their wd21s equipped with aftermarkets. Frontiers from what I understand mount differently though so make sure your clear with adjustable arm man while getting info.

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think i'll go with superlift uca's, i want the ball joint to be at the correct angle...

anyone know if i can install superlift uca's and use 'em at stock height?

i hear the arms are actually longer, so i'm not sure if that would work. could i turn down the torsion bars to make the longer arms work at stock height?

i have to replace my ball joints and tre's soon, but i'd rather put 'em on with the new uca's if i can, so i dont have to re-install the ball joints when i'm ready to lift...

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Yes, from what I can tell you can run the SuperLift UCAs at stock height but that is true stock height, not 15 years old sagged T-bars 'stock height'.

 

so you can tell just buy looking at the plate the ball joint is to sit on that the angle isnt good? whats the proper angle for a 3" lift? i guess that plate looks flat, no angle. i would actually like to do a 2" lift, but i dont know if i can get 2" lift coils, unless i cut down my own JGC coils...

What about these? anyone familair with FabTech? someone's selling some Fabtech UCA's for the HB. so will the HB UCA's fit my truck? (i beleive so).

anyone know anything about these?

Yes, I have messed with the UCAs quite a bit, here is a thread to enlighten you. http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=30104&st=0&p=570012&hl=upper&fromsearch=1entry570012

I never determined the angle but it would be easy enough to do with a protractor. I'm guessing about 25-30 degrees.

No those UCAs have 0 angle, look at the machined slot in the rod end, it is parallel to the flat milled on the top and bottom.

I have about a 2" lift and used the SuperLift UCAs and JGC springs, works out perfectly for me but the JGC springs are known to vary quite a bit.

Nope, I've never heard of Fabtech but they seem a lot like the AC versions with additional gussets... :shrug:

 

B

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thanks for the reply precise1...

my stock t-bars havent started saggin yet. i plan on keepin them until i add more weight up front (bumper/winch)...

now, i have another question, i've done some research, but i was hoping someone could clarify this for me. what should i do about the upper control arm spindle/bushings? my manual says i may need a hydraulic press to remove/install the bushings. and i dont have a hydro press. all of my rubber bushings are shot on my truck, i'm in the process of replacing them, i already have new bushings for the upper control arm spindle, and i read i can cut/burn the old one's out, i'm just wondering how hard it is to install the new bushings? is there anyway around the hydro press? can i use a C-clamp or vice to press in the bushings?

and i'm looking for opinions on another matter. do you guys think i should go with 1.5" or 3" lift coils? i dont plan on running larger than 31" tires. i may move up to 32"x11.5" next time i need tires (i have to do the math), but definently not 33"x12.5". i'd like to run 33's, but if i did that i would want to get new gears to keep the ratio near stock, and thats to expensive for me, i'm trying to build my truck up on the cheap. so i dont need the extra room for tires. my main concern is reducing wear on tre/balljoints/centerlink. i plan to make some "slider plates" that kiwi pete has showcased, to limit the upward travel of my tre's/centerlink, and they will help, but i'm still trying to decide how much i want to lift. would you say that 1.5" lift would reduce wear enough to justify going that way? i'd rather do the 3" lift for the additonal ground clearance, unless the 1.5" lift will save me considerable wear. so lets hear your opinions...

Edited by shasdakota
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Ok, new plans. i think i'll get lift coils at the same time as i get the uca's, so i can turn up my t-bars and have everything fit right. but i'm thinking about using my factory shocks for another month, till i can afford some bigger shocks from bilstein. so long as i dont go off road, and flex out my suspension, i'll be ok with my factory shocks, correct?

and i plan to take my truck in to nissan to have them replace some seals in my front diff, at which time i'll have them do an alignment, before i get new shocks. i wont need an alignment after i swap out my shocks for longer one's, correct?

so, my other questions still remain also:

1. how hard is it to deal with the uca spindle bushings? do i need a press?

2. what your opinion on the difference in the amount of wear (on tre's/balljoints/centerlink) between a 1.5" and 3" lift?

thanks guys...

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Ball joint wear wont really be affected so long as you get some UCA's that correct the balljoint angle. The Centerlink wont be any more of an issue if you don't put bigger meats on your wheels and if you avoid offroading it too hard you shouldn't have an issue there with the factory steering system. The TRE's will be the only thing that may see more wear due to the more pronounced angle but I doubt it will be enough to start causing failure unless you are being harsh on the trails.

 

You wont have a problem getting the new bushings on the spindles. A little bit of grease on them and they pop right in and right out again if need be. The reason you cant get the old ones out is because they are most likely ceased in do to age and wear. Its easiest to disconnect the Upper balljoint, the shock, and th8e spindle nuts and take the whole UCA assembly with the spindle attached out, and burn them out that way. They stink so make sure you have an area well ventilated. Once the Spindle is out, make sure no one puts it in water to cool it down for you to touch. That could possibly change the metallurgic properties, so it is a good idea to just let it cool down on its own naturally.

 

Now.......

 

If it were me, I'd address the steering situation first before putting bigger tires and lift on. Its just the more safer route to go in my opinion. Once your steering is out of whack, its like wrestling a bull ALL the time.

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Yeah as long as you don't beat the piss out of it on the trails (like smashing the tires into rocks at speed causing the wheel to rip out of your hands) you should be ok. I wheeled on the stock centerlink with 31s for a long time and it was fine. It was my idler arm causing the issues, make sure that is tight and you have a brace on it.

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hey, thanks for the response guys!

i totally understand how to deal with the spindle bushings now!

 

Dowser- what steering situation are you reffering to? i dont have new tires to put on. and my steering isnt out of whack, i just have new tre's to install. are you saying i should install the new tre's before i install the new upper ball joints and uca's? thats what i was planning to do anyways...

 

so, you guys dont think a 3" lift causes more wear over a 1.5" lift? i plan to make some slider plates to reduce the upward travel of the tre's/centerlink, and i also plan to get a Grassroots centerlink eventually, and i already have a idler arm brace. but i'm really having a hard time making up my mind about how much i want to lift. there seems to be more guys running into trouble when they try and lift the front high enough to match 3" lift coils in the rear. i've even been reading that some people cant get the front high enough to match 3" lift coils. some people say they can only get 2-2.5" of lift in the front, and i dont want a sloping front end.i want it level. i suppose its not the end of the world to get 3" lift coils, and if i dont like it, i could always get shorter coils, they arent incredibly expensive, or i could pull some JGC coils at the junkyard, and trim them down to size.

i'm still interested in hearing your opinions. 3" vs 1.5" lift...

 

if i get an alignment before i get new shocks, i wont need another alignment after i put in longer shocks, correct?

 

i dont know if i have any shims on my uca spindle right now or not. do you guys generally need to add shims when you do a susp lift? what are you using for shims? and do you need longer spindle bolts when you add shims?

 

i just realized the Superlift UCA's come with bushings. and i just bought new bushings at nissan for my uca spindle for $50! oops, wasting money here... if anyone needs stock uca spindle bushings let me know...

Edited by shasdakota
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Alright, I'll try and cover most of the questions you have with what I know from my experience.

 

i'd like to run 33's, but if i did that i would want to get new gears to keep the ratio near stock, and thats to expensive for me, i'm trying to build my truck up on the cheap. so i dont need the extra room for tires.

 

If you would eventually like to drive on 33's first thing I would do is check what your gearing is now. If your rig has 4.3 gears I would most likely stay away from 33's since in my experience you lose a lot of low end power. I'm guessing this is what my issue was with my First pathfinder when I lifted it before I knew anything about anything mechanical. I never even bothered to check the gear ratios and it was gutless on 33's. This 3rd Pathfinder I have has 4.6 gears, and I've just recently driven a rig with 33's and 4.6 gears in it and theres is plenty of pick up and go and thats with an Auto. So as far as I'm concerned, 33's are fine with the 4.6 gearing. You could also grab an xterra 3rd member with 4.9's and the front diff Ring and Pinion with 4.9's and have those installed as well on the cheaper side down the road.

 

Dowser- what steering situation are you reffering to? i dont have new tires to put on. and my steering isnt out of whack, i just have new tre's to install. are you saying i should install the new tre's before i install the new upper ball joints and uca's? thats what i was planning to do anyways...

 

It doesn't matter which you install first. The wont affect each other during installation. The situation I was referring to, is the weak centerlink, and Idler arm. As you may have read elsewhere, the idler arm bends if not properly braced, but seeing as you have the brace already that doesn't need to be talked about, the centerlink is the other problem area and its due to the design. If you aren't sure what it looks like, think of a Cartoon Dog bone. On the ends, it uses a ball joint system for both the idler arm connection and the TRE connection on the passender side, and again the ball joint style for the Pitman arm, and TRE on the driver side. What ends up happening is when the steering gets shocked, like hitting a rock offroad or perhaps even hitting a curb very hard in a non offroad situation, the centerlink creates a great deal of torsional strain on the centerlink because it is allowed to move due to the ball joint connections. This excessive twisting eventually messes with your centerlink and makes your steering out of whack and more unpredictable. The Grassroots modified Centerlink does away with one of the ball joint connections on each end, the Idler/pitman arm side and adds grade 8, 5/8 bolts in its place. There is much less torsional forces with this design and the weak points become either the Idler arm itself, or the TRE's. Ultimately you'd like the weakest link to be the TRE's since they are the easiest and cheapest to repair on the trail.

 

Before doing any Lift modifications, I would think about what you'd like to be doing as the end result, and tackle the steering accordingly. From personal experience now, I can tell you it is MUCH safer and better to go that route. From my lesson I'm just lucky I never lost control on snowy roads and killed myself, or someone else.

 

if i get an alignment before i get new shocks, i wont need another alignment after i put in longer shocks, correct?

 

For shocks, No it is not necessary. For TRE's, Ball joints and UCA installation, absolutely.

 

i dont know if i have any shims on my uca spindle right now or not. do you guys generally need to add shims when you do a susp lift? what are you using for shims? and do you need longer spindle bolts when you add shims?

 

You will absolutely need shims and most likely quite a few of them behind the spindles when lifting the front end. The T-Bars are easy to crank up and there is a lot of info on these boards on that, so after you install the UCA's, I would crank them yourself to the height you wish to have them at. Remember to leave some room between your bump stops and UCA's or you will have no uptravel, It will feel BRUTALLY jarring while going over even pot holes, and you will be putting your CV's at a strained operating angle. Once you have these adjusted, Go to the alignment shop, and tell them 2 things, 1) Do not touch the Torsion bars to adjust the alignment, do it all through the UCA spindles, and 2) Use Washer style shims that WONT fall out as soon as you go up a curb. It is advised to get longer spindle bolts and there is a write up about that on here too. I can't recall the exact measurements but grade 10.9, 14?x60mm comes to mind? Don't take my word on that.

 

Hope that helps. And if I'm forgetting anything or have anything wrong, someone correct me please. I don't like to give bad advise.

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Grade 10.9 M14 x 1.5 60mm long are the size to use. Make sure you get them from a reputable fastner place.

 

To be honest you actually don't need THAT many shims, what happens is, is the shop will align it but the tbars aren't settled so they'll think the camber is way negative and shim it out a bunch, then set the toe. And after you drive it around for a couple days (depending on how much you drive) it will sag and your tires will look like this \ / if you look at the front of the truck. It will be way positive. They have almost ALWAYS done this when I had mine aligned, until I found a shop that listened to what I said. The reason they aren't settled when they align it is, because they take the tires off (suspension droops) to make adjustments to the ucas. And when they change the toe the camber will change along with the caster. The place I took mine to took 4 solid hours to align it but at least they got it right.

 

The AC 3" springs gave nige and I more like 4 inches of lift in the rear.

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hey, thanks for the response guys!

i totally understand how to deal with the spindle bushings now!

 

Dowser- what steering situation are you reffering to? i dont have new tires to put on. and my steering isnt out of whack, i just have new tre's to install. are you saying i should install the new tre's before i install the new upper ball joints and uca's? thats what i was planning to do anyways...

 

so, you guys dont think a 3" lift causes more wear over a 1.5" lift? i plan to make some slider plates to reduce the upward travel of the tre's/centerlink, and i also plan to get a Grassroots centerlink eventually, and i already have a idler arm brace. but i'm really having a hard time making up my mind about how much i want to lift. there seems to be more guys running into trouble when they try and lift the front high enough to match 3" lift coils in the rear. i've even been reading that some people cant get the front high enough to match 3" lift coils. some people say they can only get 2-2.5" of lift in the front, and i dont want a sloping front end.i want it level. i suppose its not the end of the world to get 3" lift coils, and if i dont like it, i could always get shorter coils, they arent incredibly expensive, or i could pull some JGC coils at the junkyard, and trim them down to size.

i'm still interested in hearing your opinions. 3" vs 1.5" lift...

 

if i get an alignment before i get new shocks, i wont need another alignment after i put in longer shocks, correct?

 

i dont know if i have any shims on my uca spindle right now or not. do you guys generally need to add shims when you do a susp lift? what are you using for shims? and do you need longer spindle bolts when you add shims?

 

i just realized the Superlift UCA's come with bushings. and i just bought new bushings at nissan for my uca spindle for $50! oops, wasting money here... if anyone needs stock uca spindle bushings let me know...

I bought the 3 in springs and got at least 4 in. I cranked the front till the AC UCA were on the stops and still had 2 in higher in the back. AC told me to use ball joint spacers but then the CV axles were at a horrible angle. With the independent front suspension I wouldn't go more than 2 in over stock for the safety of your axles. If you want more lift go with SAS.

My 3 in lift spring are sitting in my shed, I got some jeep springs from the pick a part like I should have done in the first place. The jeep springs you want will have around a .6 wire diameter.

James

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Great info here guys! thanks for helping me out!!

 

Dowser-

i have 4.6 gears now. if i ever did re-gear, i thought i'd go to 5.14. and if i ever did that, i'd want to get lockers as well, and i'd have to get a 3rd member, cause i have a rear lsd now. anyways, thats entirely way to much for me to spend anytime soon. but it is interesting to hear you think 4.6 gears and 33" tires work well together.

and your saying that driving with the stock centerlink and suspension lift is that dangerous? i know i've read of several guys here using the stock centerlink with their susp lift. i wont be off roading hard until next summer, by which time i should have my Grassroots centerlink. for the next 6 months or so, my rig will only be used on pavement. i'd really like to use my stock centerlink for the time being. i have a ton of projects on the go, and not enough $$ to go around...

yes, i came across a great thread here on re-indexing the torsion bars, and also a great thread on the uca spindle. some real great info here... the only question i still have about this is what type of washer shims i should use. what do you mean by getting shims "that dont fall out when you hit a curb"?

 

Adamzan-

thanks for that info on alignment. luckily i found a great nissan dealer in the suburbs here where the manager and several employees have lifted up/modded nissan's, they should be able to do a good job.

 

Jamesrich-

i'm really leaning towards the 1.5" lift, i dont want ball joint spacers, and i've read of several people running into trouble trying to lift the front high enough to match 3" lift springs. maybe it depends on how worn your torsion bars are? i think mine must be pretty good, its not sagging at all, but i still dont think i want to stress out my steering that much....

and believe me, i'd love to slide a solid axle under my front end, i've done a ton of research, and actually have a pretty good idea of what i would need to do. but i started pricing things out and realized it would just be way to expensive for me. i'll have to wait until i get a new truck to get a solid front axle, or at least break my IFS. so until then, a suspension lift is all we will do. and i really think i might be better off with the smaller lift... tough decision for me though...

 

The other question i have is about swapping out my rear coil springs. i did a ton of searching here, and i came across a ton of threads reviewing suspension lift components, and that great thread about re-indexing the torsion bars, but i never saw any threads on actually doing the suspension lift. if i missed it, just post a link please.

i think i know what i'm doing, my only question is about the rear coils. do i need 4 axle stands? i was thinking i would remove my rear tires, lift the rear end, put axle stands under the frame, and put 2 more axle stands under my rear axle, then dis-connect the bottom end of my shocks (since i will be keeping them), (and my rear sway bar is already removed), and then compress the coils to remove . and then use the 2 axle stands under my rear axle to lower my axle a bit so i can fit in the longer coils. or do i even need to lower my axle to fit longer coils? can i just compress them and install them in the space left by my stock coils? will they fit like that? do i need to dis-connect my rear trac-bar? i'd like to hear what you guys are doing. and if anyone has any other helpful tips that are usually overlooked, i'd love to hear about them also.

 

EDIT- are must of you getting more lift than advertised in the rear? maybe i'll get 2"+ lift with the AC 1.5" coils, which is just what i wanted...

 

EDIT x2- what about brake lines? do i need extended brake lines to do the suspension lift, or can i at least wait until i get longer shocks to get some longer brake lines as well?

Edited by shasdakota
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how about these moog shims?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1211870,parttype,10657,a,www.google.ca%2BSearch%2Bfor%2BSuspension%2BAlignment%2BShim%2BMOOG

they come in either 1, 2, or 3mm...

whatdaya think i should get?

or should i just get 10.9 steel washers?

where are you guys getting 10.9 steel bolts? i can only find 10.9 M14x2mm bolts... i heard people say they got 'em @ bolt depot, but they dont have 10.9 M14x1.5mm bolts either. they do have M14x1.5mm 8.8 steel bolts though... will 8.8 steel be good enough?

Edited by shasdakota
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Those shims are the "normal" ones... geometrically it is possible for them to fall out. If you install them properly and don't off-road much they probably won't fall out... but obviously some people have had problems. So using washers is "better" just less convenient. Mcmaster-carr doesn't have M14x1.5 10.9 so I don't have any ideas there...

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I have the standard shims and they have not fallen out after a bunch of offroad trips, make sure they're installed right and the bolts are torqued to spec.

 

Also I have a set of Jeep springs for sale, if you're interested.

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and your saying that driving with the stock centerlink and suspension lift is that dangerous? i know i've read of several guys here using the stock centerlink with their susp lift. i wont be off roading hard until next summer, by which time i should have my Grassroots centerlink. for the next 6 months or so, my rig will only be used on pavement. i'd really like to use my stock centerlink for the time being. i have a ton of projects on the go, and not enough $$ to go around...

 

What I'm saying is that if you have a set amount of cash, I "Personally" think it is safer and more advisable to do the steering before the Suspension lift. I know lots of people run lifts with stock steering and that's fine. But you never know what the future holds, and you can count on having cash later to upgrade the steering but lets say something else happens, life takes you in a different direction, and you no longer have a bit of cash to throw into it. At that Point... I think its safer to have done the steering first. That's all I'm saying. It could be you end up driving around with a sloppy steering system for who knows how long on a lifted rig waiting on cash, instead of having a bomb proof steering set up waiting on some cash for a lift. Just my :my2cents:

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To change the rear springs you will need a floor jack and two stands. Jack up the rear of the truck under the pumpkin, put the stands under the frame, disconnect the rear sway bar, unbolt and disconnect one end of the panhard and shocks, unbolt the parking brake guides from the lower control arms and then lower the floor jack. The springs should be ready to fall out. Getting the new springs in might be a little more difficult, but I've never had an issue getting them in. You may have to loosen the parking brake cable to get the axle to drop far enough to install the longer springs.

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adamzan- i am interested in your coils, i will send you a pm...

dowser- i here what your saying...

koveman- thanks for the instructions!

 

well, i think i know all i need to know now...

unless someone has a link for 10.9 bolts...

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alrite, found some 10.9 metric fine pitch bolts.

now is that a 65mm shank or 65mm total length bolt i want?

for anyone else that needs longer uca spindle bolts, you can get some here:

http://www.ezaccessory.com/Lug_Bolt_Ball_Seat_Mercedes_p/989.htm

they're for lug nuts, but its the only 10.9 steel metric fine pitch bolts i can find.

i wrote a few fastner places to ask if they have any regular hex bolts, so maybe some regular bolts will turn up...

 

EDIT x2- shoot, just realized those arent 10.9 steel... i been searching for to long... loosing my mind...

they dont seem to make the bolts i need...

 

EDIT x 3- ok, maybe i'm not crazy. it doesnt say what those lug nuts are, but i was linked to that site for a replacement source to 10.9 steel mercedes lug nuts. so, i think they might be 10.9 steel...

can anyone clarify the 65mm measurement for me? (shank or total length)

Edited by shasdakota
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not sure if anyone's reading this anymore, but, i just got a 1" susp lift kit, do you think i'll still need shims/longer uca spindle bolts with this small of susp lift?

i dont have any shims now, and i am able to get properly aligned...

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not sure if anyone's reading this anymore, but, i just got a 1" susp lift kit, do you think i'll still need shims/longer uca spindle bolts with this small of susp lift?

i dont have any shims now, and i am able to get properly aligned...

 

I have a 1" lift and the stock bolts and it seems to work. I am basically at the limits specified in the FSM for shim thickness, which I assume means I am ok on thread engagement.

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