sewebster Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I think the best solution now is to rotate the engine by hand to get to #1TDCcompression. Probably you know where this is by now or can find it with the dowel in the spark plug hole combined with distributor position. Then reassemble your lower pulley so the marks are in the right place. It can only fit together so many ways, so you only have to worry about lining it up roughly. Alternatively you could make your own marks on the pulley in the new correct position, but that is probably annoying and can lead to confusion in the future. You could try to make only one mark at TDC and then use an advance timing light to make it easier I guess. Not sure how accurately you can find TDC exactly with the dowel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMasters Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 To Sewebster... I have actually been researching both of those options today and I think, as long as I dont have to loosen the crank bolt, reconfiguring the pulley is what I will do. From what I have read it would appear that you only have to remove the 6 small bolts to get the pulley off. I did find what I thought was a very good write up regarding finding TDC and making your own timing marks using a piston stop tool and some timing tape... http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Determining_top_dead_center Although that actually looks like a fun procedure, I am thinking that reconfiguring the pulley should be much less work. CHEERS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I thought you had to remove the crank bolt, but worth a check! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkorahil Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am thinking you need to remove the distributor cap, note where the rotor is positioned, pull the distributor out, rotate the head 180 degrees counter clockwise and restab the distributor. On the crankshaft pully, tap the key slightly to move the crankshaft to where it is facing the bottom, remove the skid plate, take some white paint and a small brush and paint each groove so you can see them much easier with the timing light when you go to check the timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am thinking you need to remove the distributor cap, note where the rotor is positioned, pull the distributor out, rotate the head 180 degrees counter clockwise and restab the distributor. I'm thinking that's essentially what he ended up doing already to get it running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMasters Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 THAT IS CORRECT... After I realized the error of my ways I used the #1 cylinder to find TDC and then re-stabbed the distro pointing at point #1 and it fired rite up. I should be able to get the pulley reconfigured this evening. I was thinking about the procedure mentioned above for using the piston stop tool to find TDC and something wasnt making sense in my mind... If, on an original engine, when the left most timing mark is lined up with the timing arrow, thus the rotor is pointing at point #1 and the #1 piston is all the way up. But, on the other hand, you use a piston stop, thus marking a line when the piston is all the way up and another line when the piston hits the stop again and then marking a line in between those lines indicating TDC, doesn't that mean that the piston is all the way down at the TDC line since that line is directly in between two points where the piston was all the way up. Does my confusion make since here? My brain says... Why not just set piston #1 all the way up with rotor pointing at Point #1, and then make a mark on the pulley at the timing arrow which should be the exact same place the mark would be if the pulley were installed correctly. NO? Also, before this situation occurred I was noticing a small exhaust leak from the passenger side of the truck. After getting the truck back up and running I believe the leak is worse and louder. Do you guys think that its possible that the intake backfiring could actually cause enough pressure to make that leak worse. I guess the exhaust stud issue will be getting addressed next. Thanks again for all of the help. Although its nice to drive problem free for long periods of time it is also nice to have some issues that force me to get more well acquainted with my Pathfinder. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Your confusion is totally understandable, I've done it before too because the crank pulley wasn't put back on correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 THAT IS CORRECT... After I realized the error of my ways I used the #1 cylinder to find TDC and then re-stabbed the distro pointing at point #1 and it fired rite up. I should be able to get the pulley reconfigured this evening. I was thinking about the procedure mentioned above for using the piston stop tool to find TDC and something wasnt making sense in my mind... If, on an original engine, when the left most timing mark is lined up with the timing arrow, thus the rotor is pointing at point #1 and the #1 piston is all the way up. But, on the other hand, you use a piston stop, thus marking a line when the piston is all the way up and another line when the piston hits the stop again and then marking a line in between those lines indicating TDC, doesn't that mean that the piston is all the way down at the TDC line since that line is directly in between two points where the piston was all the way up. Does my confusion make since here? My brain says... Why not just set piston #1 all the way up with rotor pointing at Point #1, and then make a mark on the pulley at the timing arrow which should be the exact same place the mark would be if the pulley were installed correctly. NO? Also, before this situation occurred I was noticing a small exhaust leak from the passenger side of the truck. After getting the truck back up and running I believe the leak is worse and louder. Do you guys think that its possible that the intake backfiring could actually cause enough pressure to make that leak worse. I guess the exhaust stud issue will be getting addressed next. Thanks again for all of the help. Although its nice to drive problem free for long periods of time it is also nice to have some issues that force me to get more well acquainted with my Pathfinder. :-) I don't fully understand your confusion... the number 1 piston is only at the top once per rotation of the crankshaft, and that point is when the arrow points at the leftmost timing mark on the lower pulley. using a piston stop would find this same point if the pulley is installed correctly. I think you are getting confused because each camshaft only does a half revolution per revolution of the crankshaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I skimmed through what he said, but the gist I got was he aligned the leftmost timing mark on the crank pulley with the arrow which SHOULD indicate No.1 TDC then dropped the distributor in, however if the pulley wasn't put back on correctly nothing will be in the right spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMasters Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 That is pretty much what I did the first time when instead of realizing that the pulley was installed incorrectly, I was thinking that the distributor was installed backwards so I did in fact pull the distributor and reinstall based on the timing marks which rendered the truck useless. Something I was thinking about last night and fooling with this morning was the idea that if there are six screws holding the pulley on, which should mean that it can be installed 6 different ways and since this is a six cylinder vehicle, would it not be possible to set your timing based on which ever cylinder is at its top most position when the first timing mark is lined up with the arrow. I tried the timing light on all cylinders and #6 put the timing marks at the exact spot that you would expect if timing off cylinder #1 and the truck seems to run fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMasters Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Hey guys, I am still having some issues with the Pathfinder and since they have occurred directly on the heals of the issues that prompted this thread, I thought I would continue our conversation. So, the day I finally decided the issue with the distributor was fixed, I took a test drive and although it was running fine it was obvious that the passenger side exhaust manifold leak was going to need to be taken care of as it sounded awful and it appeared as though only TWO studs were left holding the manifold on. In fact FOUR studs were broken off so I spent almost a week working on it. Got the manifold studs fixed and BAM, runs and drives great. I take a 40 mile test drive and the truck starts to overheat, I immediately notice that there is a pinhole leak in the coolant line coming from the drivers side of the upper intake manifold just behind the EGR? Valve and the coolant in the engine was BOILING. While fixing this coolant line I notice that all of the coolant in the system is @!*% brown and totally nasty. I emptied the overflow bottle and it had big nasty petroleum type goo in the bottom. I cleaned as much of the crap out as possible but have not yet done a complete coolant flush. Now that the coolant line is fixed, the truck is running HOT. It will slowly climb up to over 3/4 on the gauge and I expect it would keep going if I didnt turn it off. It used to stay at 1/2 or below religiously. Obviously a faulty thermostat or clogged coolant lines may be to blame but I wanted to see if and how you guys think that this running hot issue relates to the previous distributor and or exhaust manifold issue. All of this stuff happening at once just seems too coincidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 The goo in the bottom of the overflow bottle is not so uncommon. I wouldn't worry about that too much (but you should change your coolant more often). Engine running too hot seems like almost certainly a cooling system problem to me. Other than the thermostat or clogged lines/rad, it could be a fan clutch issue too I guess. If you put new coolant in and it also gets fouled then I guess you could have a head gasket leak... you should check the condition of your oil and you could also do a compression (and/or leakdown) test... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Do a complete flush and bleed the system very well. Sounds like it needs it anyways. Might have a clogged radiator with all that gunk in there. Coincidental, yeah... but then again distributors and cooling systems are entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMasters Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Sewebster and Kingman... Thanks for your time! I will try to get a complete flush done by this weekend. I had read that having your timing to far advanced would contribute to some cooling issues and today I discovered that it would also keep you from passing emissions... The reason I have been in a hurry to get this thing running good is that I have a birthday tomorrow and need to get it to pass emissions. Although I have been having the running hot issue, I went ahead and took it to the emissions shop today where it failed. Keep in mind, I am not totally sure that the timing is set correctly because I believe that the pulley has been removed and reinstalled incorrectly so I have been using cylinder #3 to set the timing because #3 puts the timing marks rite where you would expect them. I had it set to the 4th hash mark from the left as I have a pulley with 7 hash marks and was aiming for 15 degrees. I told the emissions guy about this and since he knows me he told me that timing being too advanced would cause it to fail the NOX part of the test. He allowed me to adjust the timing before we ran it for the 2nd time. I adjusted it to where the timing mark was just between the first and second hash mark(between 0 and 5 degrees?)and although the truck seemed to run worse, it DID pass the test. So, thats good. During this process I was very concerned that the truck would start running hot but it DID NOT. We were using a big fan in front of the car during the testing. After leaving and driving 10 miles or so in the city the temp sensor started to rise a bit, not as far as before but higher than normal. Would that suggest the clutch fan since it seemed to work fine with the big fan going? Regarding the Head Gasket... Would those symptoms be similar to other cars I have worked on where you would mysteriously loose coolant, oil may smell like coolant and vice versa, hard to start with white smoke at startup and champagne bubbles when viewing into the radiator fill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Yes, pretty much... During this process I was very concerned that the truck would start running hot but it DID NOT. We were using a big fan in front of the car during the testing. After leaving and driving 10 miles or so in the city the temp sensor started to rise a bit, not as far as before but higher than normal. Would that suggest the clutch fan since it seemed to work fine with the big fan going? The fan clutch really only does anything when you are under 25-30mph. If the truck heats up at idle/lights and cools down at speed, I'd bet that is the problem. The big fan in front of the radiatormade the difference in this case... Still flush the system and make sure you have good flow first though. Try spinning the fan clutch (when cold) by hand as fast as you can. If it freewheels more than 1/4-1/2 turn it is probably worn out. Obviously check to see if it is loose or wobbly. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Sewebster and Kingman... Thanks for your time! I will try to get a complete flush done by this weekend. I had read that having your timing to far advanced would contribute to some cooling issues and today I discovered that it would also keep you from passing emissions... The reason I have been in a hurry to get this thing running good is that I have a birthday tomorrow and need to get it to pass emissions. Although I have been having the running hot issue, I went ahead and took it to the emissions shop today where it failed. Keep in mind, I am not totally sure that the timing is set correctly because I believe that the pulley has been removed and reinstalled incorrectly so I have been using cylinder #3 to set the timing because #3 puts the timing marks rite where you would expect them. I had it set to the 4th hash mark from the left as I have a pulley with 7 hash marks and was aiming for 15 degrees. I told the emissions guy about this and since he knows me he told me that timing being too advanced would cause it to fail the NOX part of the test. He allowed me to adjust the timing before we ran it for the 2nd time. I adjusted it to where the timing mark was just between the first and second hash mark(between 0 and 5 degrees?)and although the truck seemed to run worse, it DID pass the test. So, thats good. During this process I was very concerned that the truck would start running hot but it DID NOT. We were using a big fan in front of the car during the testing. After leaving and driving 10 miles or so in the city the temp sensor started to rise a bit, not as far as before but higher than normal. Would that suggest the clutch fan since it seemed to work fine with the big fan going? Regarding the Head Gasket... Would those symptoms be similar to other cars I have worked on where you would mysteriously loose coolant, oil may smell like coolant and vice versa, hard to start with white smoke at startup and champagne bubbles when viewing into the radiator fill? So, the day I finally decided the issue with the distributor was fixed, I took a test drive and although it was running fine it was That's the total opposite what you just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 (edited) After some homework it would appear that what I was thinking was Compression-TDC was actually Exhaust-TDC and thats why It appeared to me that the distributor was installed backwards so, in my infinite wisdom, I pulled the distributor and actually reinstalled it backwards. Does the crank pulley spin around twice for every once the rotor spins? So, at exhaust TDC the rotor points 180 degrees away from Point #1 and at compression TDC the rotor points at #1 point. Although I believe my current distributor is functional, when spinning the shaft it sounds and feels like SAND has been used to lubricate the shaft so I am thinking that I should go ahead and keep and install the new one. If, in fact, the tick marks on the crank pulley are OFF in some way, is there another way to MAKE SURE your timing is set correctly other than FEEL. The reason why those marks can be way off is because there is 6 different ways to attach the pulley to the harmonic balancer. I have no idea why people would separate them but it may happen during a timing belt change or factory error. The pulley completely separates from the balancer via 6 bolts by design for reasons specific to how Nissan does things. The balancer is keyed to the crankshaft so it can only be put on one way. To make this matter even more interesting, the balancer is not keyed at TDC. Also, if you ever pull that balancer off make sure that it did not slip and strip the crank key which can also throw off those marks. So you can either make new marks or loosen the bolts and rotate the pulley into proper position. Edited September 15, 2011 by Tungsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMasters Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 To Tungsten... Since there are 6 bolts on the pulley and this is a 6 cylinder, does it also make since that you could set time using a different cylinder? I tried my timing light on each plug wire and discovered that the marks appeared at the top of the pulley when attached to cylinder #3. I have a seven notch pulley so I had it set to the 4th mark from the left believing that to be 15 degrees. The reason I am not TOTALLY sure about this method is that the truck failed emissions at this setting but then immediately passed when I retarded the timing by TWO notches. it did, however, run worse when retarded. UPDATE ON RUNNING HOT... No amount of burping has helped and I noticed a collapsed upper radiator hose the other day and then discovered the overflow tube to be clogged. I pulled all the hoses, radiator and thermostat and there was a lot of gunk, like some kind of stop leak product, in the system. I will install a NEW thermostat, Radiator, cap and hoses this evening and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejin4499 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 (edited) To Tungsten... Since there are 6 bolts on the pulley and this is a 6 cylinder, does it also make since that you could set time using a different cylinder? I tried my timing light on each plug wire and discovered that the marks appeared at the top of the pulley when attached to cylinder #3. I have a seven notch pulley so I had it set to the 4th mark from the left believing that to be 15 degrees. The reason I am not TOTALLY sure about this method is that the truck failed emissions at this setting but then immediately passed when I retarded the timing by TWO notches. it did, however, run worse when retarded. UPDATE ON RUNNING HOT... No amount of burping has helped and I noticed a collapsed upper radiator hose the other day and then discovered the overflow tube to be clogged. I pulled all the hoses, radiator and thermostat and there was a lot of gunk, like some kind of stop leak product, in the system. I will install a NEW thermostat, Radiator, cap and hoses this evening and see what happens. I don't think you can set proper time off of another plug unless you have an alternate set of marks on the pulley. seriously I would pull it set #1 to TDC and put it back on so that the marks line up at 0. Then go about trying to diagnose everything else. Fix whats obviously wrong then you can fix the not so obvious with out getting screwed up by something that would have been easy to fix. radiator If your finding a bunch of crap in there it might be worth it to flush and drain a couple times. Edited September 15, 2011 by ejin4499 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 No! Do not set your timing using a different cylinder. You can figure out where the marks should be and translate them to the new location with a nice yellow highlighter and a protractor. Or rotate the pulley around. Also, I had a running hot issue before and the solution was to just buy a new radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMasters Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 Thanks guys, I have a new radiator to install this evening and maybe I will just go ahead and re-install the pulley correctly while I have everything removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Yes, do it. I'm planning to spin mine around as well because for some reason my pulley is way off too. I tried to get away with it by starter bumping the engine to TDC and putting new marks with a highlighter but that didn't go too smooth and the timing was still off. I think all you have to do is remove the 6 bolts, loosen the belts, and rotate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMasters Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Finally, The radiator, cap and thermostat did the trick. I feel pretty sure that the radiator was the actual culprit. I couldn't get the gauge to move past the half way mark no matter how hard I pushed it last night. I went with the 180 degree thermostat and 13psi radiator cap. I am not a huge fan of the partially plastic radiator. I like to man handle things and I think the hose outlets could break easily. I did NOT adjust the pulley because I was in a hurry and didnt want to fool with the main pulley bolt last night so I will get that done this weekend. I think the next project will need to be the drivers side exhaust manifold bolts because now that the passengers side has been fixed I can hear a faint little tick coming from the other side while warming up. I think thats a job to do immediately after purchasing one of these trucks because it sure is easier to remove a complete stud than one that has broken off. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I don't think you have to touch the main pulley bolt to adjust the pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejin4499 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) Finally, The radiator, cap and thermostat did the trick. I feel pretty sure that the radiator was the actual culprit. I couldn't get the gauge to move past the half way mark no matter how hard I pushed it last night. I went with the 180 degree thermostat and 13psi radiator cap. I am not a huge fan of the partially plastic radiator. I like to man handle things and I think the hose outlets could break easily. I did NOT adjust the pulley because I was in a hurry and didnt want to fool with the main pulley bolt last night so I will get that done this weekend. I think the next project will need to be the drivers side exhaust manifold bolts because now that the passengers side has been fixed I can hear a faint little tick coming from the other side while warming up. I think thats a job to do immediately after purchasing one of these trucks because it sure is easier to remove a complete stud than one that has broken off. :-) Dude it is six or eight little bolts take them off set the engine to tdc and put it back on why are you not doing the simplest job in your todo list. Edited September 19, 2011 by ejin4499 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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